How many YHWHs are there?

[Free]

Isa 42:8 I am Yahweh: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

Mat 16:27 For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.

Compare with:
Mat 25:31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.

And, of course, there is this:
Joh 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.


(All ESV).

 

[jocor]

and am in the good shepherd. that in Hebrew goes back to when?the angel unto the lord whom YHWH said I put my name into him.

oh I can run on this. ok if the YHWH is only person on the throne(moses was the only one to see the YHWH) but Daniel, and Isaiah they all describe nearly the same. ok if revalation Is about jesus only, then what did john see? the father on the throne as the others describe him on the throne and the name YHWH is used. again if no man hath seen the father, which must include visions then what they did they see?

Seeing YHWH in a vision is totally different than seeing YHWH in person which is evident by the fact that only Moses' face shone, but not those who saw Him in a vision.

Please provide references for verses you are asking about.

 

[jocor]

These verses are simply statements of monotheism and say nothing of the nature of God.

I didn't site them concerning His nature, but only His name. They prove there is only one YHWH.

 

[jocor]

Mat 16:27 For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.

Compare with:
Mat 25:31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.

And, of course, there is this:
Joh 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.


(All ESV).

"In the glory of the Father" means the glory that the Father gave him as per John 17:5 where Yeshua is praying to the Father to glorify him and which was fulfilled in Acts 3:13;

The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Yeshua; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.​

"In the glory of the Father" does not mean the glory that belongs to the Father. For example, it is the Father who is to be glorified as the "God of our fathers", not the Son.

 

[Free]

I didn't site them concerning His nature, but only His name. They prove there is only one YHWH.

'Scripture says there is only one, the Father. I will use “Yahweh” in place of “YHWH”. Here are some Scriptures that I base my beliefs on. They are all quotes from the KJV with “Yahweh” replacing “the LORD” and "God"replaced by "Mighty One" or "Elohim".'

'Therefore, any verses that seem to suggest Messiah Yeshua was called “Yahweh” must be understood in light of these verses.'

You cited them for those reasons, and those reasons are speaking of his nature. You are using them to say, as you have argued throughout the thread so far, that Jesus cannot be YHWH, then you are arguing about the nature of God. But those verses don't speak to his nature. As seen in the truth of the triune nature of God, the Father can be YHWH, the Son YHWH, and the Holy Spirit YHWH, and yet there is only one YHWH.

 

[jasonc]

He saw the Father's glory as He passed by. He did not see the Father.

uhm back side. nice try. jesus clearly said no man hath seen the father. jesus has glory as well. did john say that he only sees that? no. they saw him. moses shows god elsewhere. he sees his feet.

but first Isiah 6
compare to what Ezekiel 1, Ezekiel 2

.
Revelation 1 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 A revelation of Jesus Christ, that God gave to him, to shew to his servants what things it behoveth to come to pass quickly; and he did signify [it], having sent through his messenger to his servant John,

revelation 1:16. couldn't see the face of jesus.
revelation 4
revelation 5
so what did the prophets see then if YHWH is the father only?

 

[Free]

"In the glory of the Father" means the glory that the Father gave him as per John 17:5 where Yeshua is praying to the Father to glorify him and which was fulfilled in Acts 3:13;

The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Yeshua; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.​

"In the glory of the Father" does not mean the glory that belongs to the Father. For example, it is the Father who is to be glorified as the "God of our fathers", not the Son.

The point is, you used Isa 42:8, which states, "I am Yahweh: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another". I was merely showing that your use of that verse is incorrect. Jesus receives the YHWH's glory, not to mention that he shared in the Father's glory "before the world existed."

 

[JLB]

Acts 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Yeshua, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Yeshua again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

The Father, the God of the father's, raised up His Son Yeshua. Therefore, Yeshua is NOT the God of our fathers. Throughout the OT, the God of our fathers was YHWH. Therefore, Yeshua is NOT YHWH.

19 Jesus answered and said to them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." 20 Then the Jews said, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?" 21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body. 22 Therefore, when He had risen from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this to them; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had said.


Who was speaking through Zechariah - YHWH

10 "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.

 

[JLB]

Who appeared and made Covenant with Abraham?

1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. 2 And I will make My covenant between Me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly." 3 Then Abram fell on his face, and God talked with him, saying: 4 "As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, and you shall be a father of many nations. Genesis 17:1-4

JLB

 

[JLB]

Seeing YHWH in a vision is totally different than seeing YHWH in person which is evident by the fact that only Moses' face shone, but not those who saw Him in a vision.

Please provide references for verses you are asking about.

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." 57 Then the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" 58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM." 59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. John 8:56-59

They took up stones to stone at Him?

Because He was say He was I AM, YHWH

 

[jasonc]

Exo 33:18 And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.
Exo 33:22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
Exo 33:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

Yahweh is a spirit emanating with glory. He saw the back of that glory. He certainly did not see His face or His shape.

he saw hands. moses describe more. in exodus. 33:23 its says until I remove my hands and backside shall ye see. and if by that was only glory then you have a problem as all that saw the tabernacle per exodus 40 would have seen it filled with the glory of god.

jesus was asked show us the father. why then did jesus say if ye have seen me you have seen the father? nature is the same that is why.

and what exactly is this then if they didn't have a vision?

And Moses goeth up, Aaron also, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel,
10 and they see the God of Israel, and under His feet [is] as the white work of the sapphire, and as the substance of the heavens for purity;
11 and unto those of the sons of Israel who are near He hath not put forth His hand, and they see God, and eat and drink.

god can reveal some of his glory to us. moses got most of it but others per this last verse saw the YHWH. if you want to argue that the YHWH isn't the God of Isreal then be my guest.

 

[jasonc]

free that is my view the name isn't limited to one person of the trinity. each must have that nature(mercy and grace) they have to act in unison. I never saw that before but yes it make sense. always something new about the Lord when I read and debate the NAME.

 

[Free]

free that is my view the name isn't limited to one person of the trinity. each must have that nature(mercy and grace) they have to act in unison. I never saw that before but yes it make sense. always something new about the Lord when I read and debate the NAME.

Agreed.

Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, (ESV)

That makes it pretty clear--the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are the full expression of that singular name.

 

[Free]

If you have Scriptural evidence showing the name YHWH was used of the Son, present it.

Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am." (ESV)

Heb 1:8 But of the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
Heb 1:9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions."
Heb 1:10 And, "You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands;
Heb 1:11 they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment,
Heb 1:12 like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end." (ESV)

 

[jocor]

'Scripture says there is only one, the Father. I will use “Yahweh” in place of “YHWH”. Here are some Scriptures that I base my beliefs on. They are all quotes from the KJV with “Yahweh” replacing “the LORD” and "God"replaced by "Mighty One" or "Elohim".'

'Therefore, any verses that seem to suggest Messiah Yeshua was called “Yahweh” must be understood in light of these verses.'

You cited them for those reasons, and those reasons are speaking of his nature. You are using them to say, as you have argued throughout the thread so far, that Jesus cannot be YHWH, then you are arguing about the nature of God. But those verses don't speak to his nature. As seen in the truth of the triune nature of God, the Father can be YHWH, the Son YHWH, and the Holy Spirit YHWH, and yet there is only one YHWH.

I cited them concerning the name. You all have turned this into a debate on the nature.

 

[jocor]

The point is, you used Isa 42:8, which states, "I am Yahweh: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another". I was merely showing that your use of that verse is incorrect. Jesus receives the YHWH's glory, not to mention that he shared in the Father's glory "before the world existed."

I used the verse correctly. It refers to not giving the glory He deserves to another. It does not mean He won't glorify another.

 

[jocor]

19 Jesus answered and said to them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." 20 Then the Jews said, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?" 21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body. 22 Therefore, when He had risen from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this to them; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had said.

If you are going to use this verse to say the Son raised himself, then you are saying the Father is the Son.

Who

was speaking through Zechariah - YHWH

10 "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.

The word "me" obviously does not harmonize with the pronouns "him" and "his" that follow. The same verse is quoted in John 19:37; "And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced." I believe John gives us the correct understanding of this verse. If you reject that, then another way to resolve the lack of harmony is by applying Yeshua's words in Matthew 24:40;

"Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."
​

To pierce Yeshua is to pierce YHWH or to pierce the Son is to pierce the Father who sent him.

 

[Free]

I cited them concerning the name. You all have turned this into a debate on the nature.

As I stated, the very reasons you give in your OP show that you are arguing for the nature of YHWH. The problem is that you are presuming that the Father alone is YHWH and then using those verses to support that idea, but none of those verses actually prove your point. Those verses are merely statements of monotheism.

If Jesus isn't YHWH, he isn't God. If he isn't God, there is no salvation. YHWH is simply the name for God, without distinction between Father, Son, or Holy Spirit.

I used the verse correctly. It refers to not giving the glory He deserves to another. It does not mean He won't glorify another.

You don't seem to be reading what I am writing. The verse in John 17:5 clearly shows that Jesus shared in the glory of the Father prior to creation. The other two verses in Matthew equate the glory of the Father with the glory of the Son.

 

[jocor]

Who appeared and made Covenant with Abraham?

1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. 2 And I will make My covenant between Me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly." 3 Then Abram fell on his face, and God talked with him, saying: 4 "As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, and you shall be a father of many nations. Genesis 17:1-4

JLB

Yahweh, the Father

 

[jocor]

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." 57 Then the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" 58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM." 59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. John 8:56-59

They took up stones to stone at Him?

Because He was say He was I AM, YHWH

The context of Jn.8 shows that Yeshua;

1) accused the Pharisees of "judging after the flesh" (vs.15).
2) said they would die in their sins (vss.21,24).
3) implied they were in bondage (vss.32,33).
4) said they were servants of sin (vs.34).
5) said they were out to kill him (vss. 37,40).
6) implied they were spiritually deaf (vs.43,47).
7) said their father was the devil (vs.44).
8) said they were not of Elohim (vs.47).
9) accused them of dishonoring him (vs.49).
10) accused them of not knowing Yahweh (vs.55).
11) accused them of lying (vs.55).

Aside from that, the Jews misunderstood Yeshua's words leading
them to believe;

1) that he accused them of being born of fornication (vs.41).
2) Yeshua had a devil (vs.52).
3) that he was exalting himself above Abraham (vs.53).
4) that he saw Abraham (vs.56).

Yeshua's words in verse 58 were the culmination of an encounter that was so offensive to the Jews that they couldn't restrain themselves anymore. They simply couldn't take it anymore so they sought to stone him, but not because of two simple words, "ego eimi".

In the Greek Septuagint (LXX), Ex 3:14 reads,

καὶ εἶπεν ὁ θεὸς πρὸς Μωυσῆν ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν καὶ εἶπεν οὕτως ἐρεῖς τοῖς υἱοῖς Ισραηλ ὁ ὢν ἀπέσταλκέν με πρὸς ὑμᾶς

In Septuagint English it reads, "And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you."

In KJV English it reads, "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."

In John 8:58, "I am" is "ἐγὼ εἰμί" in Greek. As you can see, "ἐγὼ εἰμί" in Ex 3:14 is just the prelude to what the Almighty really wanted the Israelites to know, that is, that He was the "ὁ ὢν" or "the Being" or "the Existing One".

If Yeshua truly wanted to tell the Jews he was the great "I am" of Ex 3:14, he would have said, "Before Abraham was I am the Being" or "I am the Existing One".