[_ Old Earth _] How "They" Figure "TRUE" Earth Age???

[maranatha_man]

Sure, it's a conceptual term that basically refers to a period of time beyond human sensory perception., sometimes referred to as "having no discernible beginning or end".

Your the one who claimed eternity is a period of time. Why would something that goes on forever require time?

Because it is theoretically an "infinite" period, or span of time being referred to in the first place, by the term eternity.

Time is the basic element, or unit, if you will, that one uses, or assumes to use with the term "eternity", or "eternal".

I mean, there's no way that the terms "eternity", "eternal", etc. can possibly be used in a manner that is totally separate from referring to a reeeally, reeaally, REEEEALLY long expanse of TIME.

**OK, this next part, I'm really gonna have to take it apart bit-by-bit, cuz I'm having some slight difficulties w/ it :wink:**

Anyone who has pondered different realms

Not at all sure what you mean by this.

...would realize that in order to have them, there has to be something that makes them very different so that one could not exist in the other

Whew....you seem to be lost in some very personal creative thinking, here!!

These "different realms" cannot coexist, or exist within one another??

Why is that?? Sez who???

(like light and dark coexisting in the same spot at the same time. Where ever light shines, darknees cannot exist).

A single point light source will radiate light. Simply put, degrees of "darkness" exist immediately outside of the light source, and surround it.

Nearby objects will reflect some of the light radiated from the light source.
They can only be seen, relative to the darkness, or absence of light radiation surrounding them.

Sure - the light source itself does not "radiate darkness", no problem.

So for both to exist, there had to be a division. One realm having time, and one realm not.

Whoa, hang on this seems a little confused.

You were citing light radiation relative to "darkness"...now you seem to be equating "time" in this somehow...where does "time" fit in here, all of a sudden??

Sure, light radiation occurs over time, and so do "dark areas"....how in the world are you claiming that time somehow does'nt pertain to, or exist in one of these conditions??? :o Wrong, I'm afraid

Would answer the question as to why our realm is not the same as God's.

What do you mean by "our realm", "God's realm" etc...you gotta do a little better than that w/ the terminology.
This seems a little too far off into the mystical magic kingdom, to get a handle on at the moment :wink:

Not being bound by time and age, also leaves the door open for other possbilities in the Creation.

Yeah, but there is'nt anything that is'nt "bound by time and age".

Oh, well....maybe the unbridled creative spirit of imagination!! :wink:

Possibilities that none of us could understand because it is not testable.

Sure, like magic faeries, dragons, winged horses and winged humans etc etc!!

psst...hint: I'm afraid that's the rut you're getting stuck in here, ikester :wink:

Though the possibilities could be ponder.

Say what?

Because whatever is restricted by time here (such as measuring distance and speed), would not apply there.

Uh,...sorry but a lot more, a LOT more than just "measuring distance and speed" is governed by time, at least in the current universe.

...and as far as this wonderful magical place beyond time...I'm afraid that's a neat place called our own imaginations!! - Yours' too, apparently :P

Because how could it be measured, if how it's measured does not even exist?

I dunno. You maybe have fallen into a redundancy black hole w/this one.

Hey!! We'll just have to invent a way to measure "it"!! :P

 

[ikester7579]

These "different realms" cannot coexist, or exist within one another??

Why is that?? Sez who???

There are three realms. One physical, two spiritual.

II Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

Heaven one: Where we live, the physical realm.
Heaven two: Where satan and his fallen angels are. Prince of the air. Spiritual realm
Heaven three: Where God is. Spiritual realm.

Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Explaination of these things, both visible and invisible.

Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

Showing that not only is God's, and satan realm is different, and divided. But that God's realm is above satan's.

Then there is a verse (I could not find), That speaks of an angel that ministered to someone that was in the woods. The angel said that the reason it took so long for him to reach the man was because he had to fight the powers and principalities of darkness before he could reach him. This gives the direct placement of satan's realm and our's. For the angel had to go through satan's realm to reach the man.

Here' another verse that confirms satan's realm is above our's.

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

So who said? God said. For I did not write what was already written.

 

[ikester7579]

Re: How "They" Figure "TRUE" Earth Age??

[quote="maranatha_man":95e15]

Can you explain eternity?

Sure, it's a conceptual term that basically refers to a period of time beyond human sensory perception., sometimes referred to as "having no discernible beginning or end".

No, I'm not gonna copy and paste a whole bunch of dictionary definitions. :wink:
I'll just leave it at that.

And since an eternal being created everything,

Whoa, hang on there. That's saying a very large mouthful of (possibly) nothing.

How'd you determine this??

What do you mean by "everything"??

what would be the limit on the time of things are, and how we understand them to be?

What is "the limit on the time of things are"??? Sorry, that makes no sense.

I'm not really understanding what you're getting at w/ this

For if eternity is the same as what we know about time and age, would it still be eternity?

Uh...yeah....eternity IS basically the same as "time and age", since it is, by definition, referring to a period of time, albeit one that is just "too large to measure", and we just sort of missed out on the starting point, and don't know when the end will occur. :wink:

Really not all that hard to understand.

The problem I'm seeing with this particular YEC stance is the proposal that a single object, mass, system or whatever can somehow simultaneously(!) be TWO different ages or have existed simultaneously for two separate(?) periods of time.

Are you seriously trying to say that:

**"The Earth really is'nt 4.3 billion years old, but it was created;appeared, 6000 years ago, as a 4.3 billion year old "looking" object."**

Sheesh. That's pure make believe magical incoherent hocus-pocus, sorry.

Please keep in mind that "appearance of being a certain age" is in no way, shape or form, any kind of scientifically verifiable quality or property, and is'nt even recognized as such.

The only way....and I mean ONLY way an object, mass etc etc., can possess the qualities & properties, or "appearance" if you will, of being 4.3 billion years old , or 600 years, or 16,000 years, or 5 years old is to actually exist for that length of time.

Please read my remarks on that in the first few posts, if you're wanting to see what I'm getting at. :wink:

I'd like you to prove everything you just claimed you know about eternity.

And I would like you to dis-prove anything he just wrote.[/quote:95e15]

Did not have to. God's word does that nicely.

 

[maranatha_man]

These "different realms" cannot coexist, or exist within one another??

Why is that?? Sez who???

There are three realms. One physical, two spiritual.

II Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

Heaven one: Where we live, the physical realm.
Heaven two: Where satan and his fallen angels are. Prince of the air. Spiritual realm
Heaven three: Where God is. Spiritual realm.

Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Explaination of these things, both visible and invisible.

Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

Showing that not only is God's, and satan realm is different, and divided. But that God's realm is above satan's.

Then there is a verse (I could not find), That speaks of an angel that ministered to someone that was in the woods. The angel said that the reason it took so long for him to reach the man was because he had to fight the powers and principalities of darkness before he could reach him. This gives the direct placement of satan's realm and our's. For the angel had to go through satan's realm to reach the man.

Here' another verse that confirms satan's realm is above our's.

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Ok, Ikester, that’s great….<BUT>….

**1.) Has nothing whatsoever to do with determinations of cosmological ages of Earth or universe.
**2.) Has nothing whatsoever to do with biological sciences, paleontology, evolutionary or life processes
**3.) I could get a little picky and point out that the word “realm†appears nowhere in the scriptural passages you cited - <YOU> are the one using the term.
**4.) Based on what is known of the real world, the idea of these three “Heavens, dimensions, realmsâ€Â…whatever you want to call them…being completely discreet and separate is largely theoretical.

…and then another problem….

So who said? God said. For I did not write what was already written.

....including YOUR OWN personalized interpretations of the l passages that YOU YOURSELF picked from the body of scripture????

<ROFL!!!> Gee, sorry, "GOD" - but I think your problem's a bit obvious!!! :P

 

[maranatha_man]

Re: How "They" Figure "TRUE" Earth Age??

[quote="maranatha_man":89bb3]

Can you explain eternity?

I'd like you to prove everything you just claimed you know about eternity.

And I would like you to dis-prove anything he just wrote.

Did not have to. God's word does that nicely.

[/quote:89bb3]

<LOL!!> That has got to be the stupidest, laziest evasion possible. You never even cited any of "God's definitions" (are there any?) or of "His" ruminations on the concept of eternity and whatnot (gee, how about it, Lord??....or better yet maybe save your time and effort., since it's largely off-topic in relation to this thread.)

I still have'nt seen any practical, working explanation of just how a single object or planetary body can exist for TWO(!) apparently separate periods of time as proposed by YEC :roll:

...and btw...I'm not sitting here seeing at all, where anything that has been discussed in the previous off-topic, has been "disproven"...whatever that even means?? :roll:

 

[ikester7579]

...and btw...I'm not sitting here seeing at all, where anything that has been discussed in the previous off-topic, has been "disproven"...whatever that even means??

Well, can't argue with someone who has a mindset of a reprobate. :P

And you asked what was the realm thing. so I answered.

And there are alot of words that are not in God's word. I just used one that was more modern. But if you like, I can stick to the old words since you can't seem to grasp it made more simple. Though it would probably confuse you even more. And from the looks of things, it not hard to do. :wink:

 

[maranatha_man]

...and btw...I'm not sitting here seeing at all, where anything that has been discussed in the previous off-topic, has been "disproven"...whatever that even means??

Well, can't argue with someone who has a mindset of a reprobate. :P

Why not??

How in the world did you ever arrive at this conclusion??

Personally, I'm kind of thinking the YEC position to largely be the depraved, wicked, drunken, incoherent etc. party in this case ?? :o

And you asked what was the realm thing. so I answered.

You certainly did. It sounded a bit Dungeons'n'Dragons-ish but II'll give ya that much. :P

And there are alot of words that are not in God's word. I just used one that was more modern. But if you like, I can stick to the old words since you can't seem to grasp it made more simple. Though it would probably confuse you even more. And from the looks of things, it not hard to do. :wink:

Sure!! - In light of the original thread topic and just about everything you've apparently claimed here, "confusion" (or just evasion)seems to be the norm in spite of I Cor. 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion,... apparently YEC is a bit contradictory in that area. :wink:

 

[ikester7579]

It's like I thought. If you can't prove the person wrong, then attack him personally. Very common tactic. So have fun. I made my point. And I'll let you have the last word as well. That should make you happy :D .

 

[maranatha_man]

Sure I'll take the last word (...or whatever :roll: ) !! Thx!

1.) I have not "attacked" your person, or <you> personally.

2.) It has NOT been my intent to "prove" or "disprove" anything (man I guess some ppl are just completely addicted to that terminology!!) .

2.) I am merely looking for a YEC explanation of how a planetary body can somehow exist for two completely independent, hugely different periods of time.
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So YEC explanation, based on what I've seen, conclusions are as follows:

:bday: Can an explanation of "eternity" be made?

:bday: The human imagination is wide open to many. many different possibilities, contained in "creation", none of which are testable, but can be "proved" because of God's word.

:bday: There are (3) three or so "different realms" to the (local? universal?) cosmos.

:bday: Time, apparently is a physical object which can be "removed" or excluded from at least one of these magical "realms".

:bday: Anybody who questions the logical, scientific, or even theological validity of this has the "mindset of a reprobate".
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Awrighty...