How to be released from your bondage of cessationism?

[John Zain]

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please see post #2
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[John Zain]

Proof that cessationism has been false doctrine for 1700(?) years

Justin Martyr (a.d. 100-165) boasted to the Jewish Trypho "that the prophetic gifts remain with us" (Dialogue with Trypho, 82).

Irenaeus (a.d. 120-200) also bears witness to the presence of the gifts of the Spirit. He writes:
• "We have heard of many of the brethren who have foreknowledge of the future, visions, and prophetic utterances; others, by laying-on of hands, heal the sick and restore them to health" (Against Heresies, 2:32,4).
• "We hear of many members of the church who have prophetic gifts, and, by the Spirit speak with all kinds of tongues, and bring men's secret thoughts to light for their own good, and expound the mysteries of God" (Against Heresies, 5:6,1).
• "It is impossible to enumerate the charisms which throughout the world the church has received from God" (Against Heresies, 2:32,4).

Eusebius himself concludes that the charismata were all still in operation down to the time in which Irenaeus lived (Ecclesiastical History, 5:7,6).

Apollinarius is quoted by Eusebius as saying that "the prophetic gifts must continue in the church until the final coming, as the apostle insists" (EH, 5:16,7).

Epiphanius, perhaps the most vocal opponent of the Montanists, did not attack them because they practiced the gifts of the Spirit. Indeed, he declared that "the charism [of prophecy] is not inoperative in the church. Quite the opposite. . . . The holy church of God welcomes the same [charisms] as the Montanists, but ours are real charisms, authenticated for the church by the Holy Spirit" (Panarion, 48).

Augustine (354-430), early on espoused cessationism. However, in his later writings he retracted his denial of the ongoing reality of the miraculous and carefully documented no fewer than 70 instances of divine healing in his own diocese during a two-year span (see his City of God, Book XXII, chps. 8-10). See especially the articles by Richard Riss,
"Tongues and Other Miraculous Gifts in the Second Through Nineteenth Centuries," Basileia, 1985.

Charles Spurgeon ... This is taken from his autobiography:
“I could tell as many as a dozen similar cases in which I pointed at somebody in the hall without having the slightest knowledge of the person, or any idea that what I said was right, except that I believed I was moved by the Spirit to say it; and so striking has been my description, that the persons have gone away, and said to their friends, ‘Come, see a man that told me all things that ever I did; beyond a doubt, he must have been sent of God to my soul, or else he could not have described me so exactly.’ And not only so, but I have known many instances in which the thoughts of men have been revealed from the pulpit.”
(The Autobiography of Charles H. Spurgeon, [Curts & Jennings, 1899], Vol. II, pp. 226-227).

All of the above was taken from: http://www.enjoyinggodministries.com/article/gifts-in-church-history/

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I put this in a special category ... it had a tremendous historical impact upon Christianity:
Constantine's army adopted the Christian cross (312 a.d.) because of
the miraculous vision he experienced … and the battles he won because of it.
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Disasterously-ignored information is to be found in books such as these:

http://www.amazon.com/Charismatic-Gifts-Early-Church-Exploration/dp/0913573094

http://www.amazon.com/2000-Years-Charismatic-Christianity-pentecostal/dp/0884198723/ref=pd_sim_b_1

http://www.amazon.com/Miracles-Mani...ory-Church/dp/0974474894/ref=pd_rhf_dp_s_cp_1

And also a book by 2 Roman Catholic scholars …
http://www.amazon.com/Christian-Initiation-Baptism-Holy-Spirit/dp/0814650090

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ENJOY! ... and Praise God for your deliverance!

 

[Hitch]

Be gone foul demon of cessationism. There all better now.

 

[Deborah13]

Thank you, John for posting these references. There are a few here that do believe that the Lord left us with the fulness of His Holy Spirit. That He did not leave us a partially enabled church is apparent in the scriptures but for some reason some people insist He left us without the power to do what He did.

Out of that doctrine of cessationism has come other bad doctrine. God makes you sick, God allows you to be sick to teach us a lesson or someone else a lesson, God makes people do bad things, God's will that a child die to teach you something to bring you closer to Him, etc. There is not ONE scripture in the ministry of Christ that holds up any of this nonsense.

If we can believe and blame God then we can try to falsely find comfort in all things, it must be God's will. It makes us weak and compliant with the workings of the evil one. We live our lives with weak arms not capable of holding up the shield of righteousness against the firey darts.

We are in a spiritual war, it is going on all around us. Why would we refuse to use every weapon we have been given by God?

 

[Hitch]

14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.

15 And Nathan departed unto his house. And the Lord struck the child that Uriah's wife bare unto David, and it was very sick.

16 David therefore besought God for the child; and David fasted, and went in, and lay all night upon the earth.

17 And the elders of his house arose, and went to him, to raise him up from the earth: but he would not, neither did he eat bread with them.

18 And it came to pass on the seventh day, that the child died. And the servants of David feared to tell him that the child was dead: for they said, Behold, while the child was yet alive, we spake unto him, and he would not hearken unto our voice: how will he then vex himself, if we tell him that the child is dead?

19 But when David saw that his servants whispered, David perceived that the child was dead: therefore David said unto his servants, Is the child dead? And they said, He is dead.

20 Then David arose from the earth, and washed, and anointed himself, and changed his apparel, and came into the house of the Lord, and worshipped: then he came to his own house; and when he required, they set bread before him, and he did eat.

21 Then said his servants unto him, What thing is this that thou hast done? thou didst fast and weep for the child, while it was alive; but when the child was dead, thou didst rise and eat bread.

22 And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether God will be gracious to me, that the child may live?

23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.

By whose will did this child die?

 

[Sinthesis]

Who's fault is it that those Christians loosed from the bondage of cessationism haven't emptied all our hospitals?

 

[John Zain]

... for some reason some people insist He left us without the power to do what He did.

There are several reasons for this, but how about mentioning 2 of them ...

1) Satan wants a powerless church ... Dah!

2) Church leaders without the baptism and any of the 9 power gifts found that
it benefitted them to ignore such things, and hang onto their power.
We wouldn't want to look lesser spiritually that our subordinates! ... and a double Dah!

Gee, it's real nice to have some common sense ... or is this wisdom from the Lord?

 

[Deborah13]

By whose will did this child die?

By quoting this scripture are you saying that the parents of the child who dies must have commited a horrible sin against God? That their child was conceived in sin and murder so this is the consequence of their sin as it was with David?

 

[Hitch]

By quoting this scripture are you saying that the parents of the child who dies must have commited a horrible sin against God? That their child was conceived in sin and murder so this is the consequence of their sin as it was with David?

Is there some part of this question you dont understand ?

By whose will did this child die?

 

[Hitch]

There are several reasons for this, but how about mentioning 2 of them ...

1) Satan wants a powerless church ... Dah!

2) Church leaders without the baptism and any of the 9 power gifts found that
it benefitted them to ignore such things, and hang onto their power.
We wouldn't want to look lesser spiritually that our subordinates! ... and a double Dah!

Gee, it's real nice to have some common sense ... or is this wisdom from the Lord?

I know there are hospitals in San Diego, full of the sick and dying.

 

[Deborah13]

By whose will did this child die?

You tell me Hitch. Who was the deceiver who entered the garden, who was it who accepted and acted on his lies.

Tell me what sin is. What was the garden like. Was there death, sickness, and destruction?

Tell me what God's perfect will is.

 

[Hitch]

You tell me Hitch. Who was the deceiver who entered the garden, who was it who accepted and acted on his lies.

Tell me what sin is. What was the garden like. Was there death, sickness, and destruction?

Tell me what God's perfect will is.

My for all your going on about the POWER you're afraid to answer a one line question .:crazy

A perfect demonstration of the reality wrt to all this I reckon.

Oh I get it you cant answer because I'm in bondage..:silly:silly:silly

 

[Deborah13]

Better yet Hitch, tell me ALL of what Christ did at the cross.

Is sickness God's perfect will? Aren't we suppose to be working against anything that is not God's perfect will?

 

[Deborah13]

My for all your going on about the POWER you're afraid to answer a one line question .:crazy

A perfect demonstration of the reality wrt to all this I reckon.

Oh I get it you cant answer because I'm in bondage..:silly:silly:silly

I figured you would defend your views by what we see at work in the scripture rather than giving you my interpretation of what it shows us.

Like the serpent on the pole. When they beheld the serpent they were healed. Jesus bore the works of the serpent on the cross. Behold Christ and the work He did at the cross.

All sin and sickness, anything that is not of the perfect will of God is from satan.

 

[Hitch]

I figured you would defend your views by what we see at work in the scripture rather than giving you my interpretation of what it shows us.

Like the serpent on the pole. When they beheld the serpent they were healed. Jesus bore the works of the serpent on the cross. Behold Christ and the work He did at the cross.

All sin and sickness, anything that is not of the perfect will of God is from satan.

LOL Since you'll never answer the first question ...


And the origin of Pliate's power?


BTW I also know there are hospitals full of the sick and dying in Colorado.

 

[Hitch]

Better yet Hitch, tell me ALL of what Christ did at the cross.

Is sickness God's perfect will? Aren't we suppose to be working against anything that is not God's perfect will?

By who's will did the child die ?

 

[jasoncran]

ok. sheesh im charismatic myself and my pastor believes that god did set aside healing at the cross. where we part with the healing promises types is that we believe God aint a genie.he heals at his good pleasure. apperantly Paul didnt get the memo on that. timothy was sick and paul was sorrowful and called his healing an act of mercy. odd that if paul didnt have the faith nor power to heal, others could have prayed and Timothy would have been healed. surely the early church didnt loose its way that quickly

 

[Blev]

Thanks for the article John. Very good!

 

[Deborah13]

LOL Since you'll never answer the first question ...


And the origin of Pliate's power?


BTW I also know there are hospitals full of the sick and dying in Colorado.

I did answer your question. Read the every last sentence and the last word.

 

[Deborah13]

ok. sheesh im charismatic myself and my pastor believes that god did set aside healing at the cross. where we part with the healing promises types is that we believe God aint a genie.he heals at his good pleasure. apperantly Paul didnt get the memo on that. timothy was sick and paul was sorrowful and called his healing an act of mercy. odd that if paul didnt have the faith nor power to heal, others could have prayed and Timothy would have been healed. surely the early church didnt loose its way that quickly

I'll look for the scripture you speak of. Of coarse all healing is an act of mercy, the cross was an act of mercy. Something that we can not ever deserve, and act of Grace.