Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
How To Lose Your Salvation...
- Thread starter Kidron
- Start date
Jethro Bodine
Member
I was forty-five years old before I realized 'mother of pearl' was not a person.
ezrider
Member
In Deuteronomy 18, the Lord promised to raise up a prophet, and that the Lord would put His words in his Mouth, and he shall speak all that I command him. And who so ever does not hearken unto the words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of Him. You can come to the knowledge of Christ, and still not hear his words. You believe in the power of the crucifixion for the forgiveness of sins, and you believe he has risen, but you have rejected him by not believing through faith that you are risen with him. You have not hearkened unto the words he spoke in the Lord's name, for those words are spirit, and it will be required of you.
Gary
Member
Scripture has always led me to believe that the unpardonable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. When did this change?
Mark 3
28 “Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter;
29 but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”—
30 because they said, “He has an unclean spirit.”
Matthew 12
31 “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men.
32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
Luke 12
10 “And anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but to him who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven.
Mark 3
28 “Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter;
29 but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”—
30 because they said, “He has an unclean spirit.”
Matthew 12
31 “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men.
32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
Luke 12
10 “And anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but to him who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven.
You are not getting off that easy SPANE this post
reprobate spirit.
A
agua.
Guest
Yes this is interesting Jethro. It kinda points towards knowing Jesus is who He says, or having undeniable witness, and denying Him anyway.
Jethro Bodine
Member
Bingo.
And when a person persists in resisting that undeniable witness God turns that person over to what jasonc said, a reprobate mind.
"18 being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart;19 and they, having become callous, have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness." (Ephesians 4:18-19 NASB)
"...they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness." (2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 NASB)
The person who has been turned over to that callousness of heart so they can not believe and be saved is dead already. The judgment for them is the certainty of their sentencing, not a deciding, or a wondering if they will be saved or not.
26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries.
"6 But she (the widow) who gives herself to wanton pleasure is dead even while she lives." (1 Timothy 5:6 NASB)
"24 The sins of some men are quite evident, going before them to judgment..." (1 Timothy 5:24 NASB)
Jethro Bodine
Member
See, I told you I was dense, lol.
And blind, too. If you want to hide something from me, just put it next to the mustard at the front of the middle shelf in the refrigerator.
Jethro Bodine
Member
True, there aren't any, but the point is, reprobates CAN'T repent of their sin and be saved. If they could ask for forgiveness he would have to forgive them ('everybody who calls on the name of the Lord...'). But to ensure their just destruction he removes the ability to accept the truth and be saved:
"Otherwise they would see with their eyes,
Hear with their ears,
And understand with their heart and return,
And I would heal them.’" ()
In fact, the very opposite happens to them and instead of moving toward the truth they are turned over to the delusion that the lies they chose to embrace and serve are the truth.
"If then the light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!" (Matthew 6:23 NASB)
Being turned over to the lie by God himself, they think the darkness is the light of truth. How profound that darkness really is when they find out at the Judgment that the light they followed was really darkness. How great it will be shown to be on that day. Not now. They're incapable of seeing that now because God has turned them over to the lie and has removed the privilege of knowing the truth from them. He did that because they rejected the undeniable witness of the Holy Spirit working in their hearts, calling God a liar (the sin of blasphemy for which no provision for sacrifice exists). Including, as in the case of the Pharisees, rejecting the undeniable witness of the Holy Spirit working right before their eyes, calling the Holy Spirit a lying worker of demonic deeds.
Last edited:
Jethro Bodine
Member
This is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit:
"6 It is the Spirit who testifies...
10 ...the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son." (1 John 5:6,10 NASB)
They have spoken against the Holy Spirit.
What sacrifice for sin has God made available to atone for the sin of refusing the sacrifice for sin that the Holy Spirit testifies about? That's why it's unforgivable.
Any time you talk to an unbeliever who has been shown the undeniable truth by God in their hearts and they say to you, "that's not true", they are blaspheming the Holy Spirit calling him a liar. Persist in it long enough and God will turn them over to the delusion of their choice so they can't believe and be saved. He'll do this while they are still very much alive. You don't need to die to be officially guilty of the sin of blasphemy.
"6 It is the Spirit who testifies...
10 ...the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son." (1 John 5:6,10 NASB)
They have spoken against the Holy Spirit.
What sacrifice for sin has God made available to atone for the sin of refusing the sacrifice for sin that the Holy Spirit testifies about? That's why it's unforgivable.
Any time you talk to an unbeliever who has been shown the undeniable truth by God in their hearts and they say to you, "that's not true", they are blaspheming the Holy Spirit calling him a liar. Persist in it long enough and God will turn them over to the delusion of their choice so they can't believe and be saved. He'll do this while they are still very much alive. You don't need to die to be officially guilty of the sin of blasphemy.
Last edited:
Deborah13
Member
I do not believe we can take a prophecy about the nation of Israel and turn it into a prophecy about individual people and stay true to the purpose of the prophecy, which was clearing given for a specific reason and to bring about a specific outcome and stay true to the word given.
Isa 6:9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
Isa 6:10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
Isa 6:11 Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate,
Isa 6:12 And the LORD have removed men far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land.
Isa 6:13 But yet in it shall be a tenth, and it shall return, and shall be eaten: as a teil tree, and as an oak, whose substance is in them, when they cast their leaves: so the holy seed shall be the substance thereof.
This was the Lord dealing with the nation of Israel. They had become so corrupt as a nation God caused them to be conquered by the Babylonians. Not for the purpose that they all lose their nation forever but to purify it. This is all part of His master plan of bringing redemption to the world, the Messiah.
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat_13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Here is the same prophecy again speaking of the nation of Israel. To bring about God's plan of redemption to the whole world the Messiah. Not just to the nation of Israel but to all the nations of the world.
We know that God did not close their eyes, the scripture says they closed their eyes. But Jesus said that He spoke to them in parables so that they would not be able to understand at that point. The question in Esias (Isaiah) still stands. How long, Lord? Did God tell Isaiah that it would last forever, no.
Act 28:25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
Act 28:26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
Act 28:27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
Acts gives a clear understanding of this prophecy. The Gentiles (all the other nations of the world) heard the salvation message from the Apostles. AND all the nation of Israel heard the salvation message as well and thousands received it as they continue to receive it up to this day, just as the other nations continue to receive it and thousands of individuals receive it up to this day.
Nowhere in these two verses does God say He closed their eyes, He says "they closed their eyes".
And it does not say it lasts forever either. How long Lord?
What caused them to close their eyes? What does "wax fat" or "waxed gross" mean?
Jethro Bodine
Member
Are you saying that God himself does not turn Christ/ truth rejecting people over to lies so they will be judged, not saved?
Deborah13
Member
I'm only saying what I said.
That those verses are about what they say they are about.
Those verses do not say what you are saying in your above statement in this post. They do not support your argument.
That is all.
Jethro Bodine
Member
So they are only applicable to Jewish truth rejectors? God does not hinder the capacity to believe of the gentile truth rejector?
Deborah13
Member
Those scriptures are about the nation of Israel.
That is all I am pointing out. It is very clear within the scriptures themselves. Read the scriptures in Acts,
last two verses, I posted.
Act 28:27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
Is it not clear that if the Gentile nations will hear it then the 'you' that will not hear it, must be the nation of Israel.
Sorry I can't interpret that any other way.
Jethro Bodine
Member
I don't see any relevance of your point. It sounds like a technicality, that's all.Those scriptures are about the nation of Israel.
That is all I am pointing out. It is very clear within the scriptures themselves. Read the scriptures in Acts,
last two verses, I posted.
Act 28:27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
Is it not clear that if the Gentile nations will hear it then the 'you' that will not hear it, must be the nation of Israel.
It's clear that God will do what he did to the people of Israel to any unbelieving gentile, too.
Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either" (Romans 11:19-21 NASB)
isreal and likely some jewish proselytes became Christians. so which type of jew is that really saying. we know the the Pharisees did convert gentiles to judiasm.
Jethro Bodine
Member
what im implying that a goy could under the torah become a Hebrew by circumcision or by marriage if a female. ie ruth, rachab, urijiah the Hittite. if its just about blood lineage then those mentioned aren't really jews. that presents a problem as well two of them are in the line of Jesus from both parents.