How to walk by the spirit.

[JLB]

A belief system called Gnosticism was taking root in Christianity at the time the book of John was being written that taught there was a supreme and unknowable Being, which they designated as the "Monad." The Monad produced various gods, who in turn produced other gods, and one of these gods called the "Demiurge" created the earth and then ruled over it as an angry, evil and jealous god. Gnostics believe this evil god was the god of the Old Testament who is called"Elohim" and so the Monad had to send another god known as the "Christ"to bring special knowledge to mankind and free them from the influence of the evil Elohim. And this is why the gnostics do not seek salvation from repenting of their sin(but rather from the ignorance of which sin is a consequence) that they believe the evil creator God and his angels caused. They emphasize salvation of select humans from bodily existence through their awakening to the knowledge of their original divine identity. I believe the Apostle John had them on his mind when he wrote the Epistle of 1 John saying you must realize you have sin and repent. John was not talking to the already saved Christian as the Catholics would like you to believe.

I see this 1 John chapter 1 and 2 as we are either walking in our old dead nature if we are into sin. Or we are walking in the spirit if we are not into sin.

Chapter 1
6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:"
6. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

7"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
7. In him because we are saved and have put on the new man.

8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
8. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
9. In him because we are saved and have put on the new man.

10 "If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
10. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

1 John like all scripture is given as instruction for righteousness.

 

[JLB]

The spiritual part of every Christian has literally and actually been crucified, buried, and raised with Christ.

Great, now that you have addressed our “spiritual part”, maybe you could answer my question.


How about our physical body?

Didn’t we inherit a physical body from Adam?

 

[Peterlag7]

Great, now that you have addressed our “spiritual part”, maybe you could answer my question.


How about our physical body?

Didn’t we inherit a physical body from Adam?

You're not understanding what I'm saying. Let me try it this way...

Your body has spiritually been crucified.

 

[Peterlag7]

1 John like all scripture is given as instruction for righteousness.

All Scripture is given for instruction. But not all Scripture is addressed to you. For example Romans 10:9 is not addressed to the Christian.

 

[Peterlag7]

Question, you say this fleshly body literally dies when we are Spiritually born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit. If this body literally dies then how are we still living here on earth?

You also say here that you spend much (not all) of your time right inside the spirit as close as you can get right in their face. Can you clarify what you mean by inside the spirit (we who are Spiritually born again are indwelled with the Holy Spirit) and what you mean by right up in their face, whose face?

Romans 6:6-7
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

 

[Hopeful 2]

We undergo a miraculous exchange at the center of our being once we have the spirit of Christ. Who we were in Adam is no longer there. We become a new person because we are now a child of God who is in Christ. The key event causing this exchange is a death, burial, and resurrection with Christ. This miraculous exchange is not figurative or symbolic, but literal and actual.

The spiritual part of every Christian has literally and actually been crucified, buried, and raised with Christ. The fact that this occurs spiritually and not physically doesn’t make it any less real. So what happens to the old self that was in Adam? The old self is entirely obliterated once the spirit of Christ enters the Christian.

If it is only Spiritual and not physical, how can the old self be entirely obliterated ?
How can a man be a new creature if the old one still exists ? (2 Cor 5:17)

 

[Peterlag7]

Question, you say this fleshly body literally dies when we are Spiritually born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit. If this body literally dies then how are we still living here on earth?

You also say here that you spend much (not all) of your time right inside the spirit as close as you can get right in their face. Can you clarify what you mean by inside the spirit (we who are Spiritually born again are indwelled with the Holy Spirit) and what you mean by right up in their face, whose face?

I walk in the spirit of Christ that puts me in fellowship with the resurrected Lord Christ and God and I get as close to them as I can in my mind. As close as I can get right inside the spirit. In Romans 8:4, it's suggesting we walk after or by this spirit. In Romans 8:9, it calls this spirit the spirit of Christ. In Romans 8:11, it calls this spirit the spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead and that it dwells in us. In 1 Corinthians 3:16, it calls it the spirit of God that dwells in us. In Galatians 4:6, it's called the spirit of his son. And in Galatians 5:16, it talks about walking in the spirit.

 

[Hopeful 2]

The spiritual part of every Christian has literally and actually been crucified, buried, and raised with Christ.

Do you see now the problem with only a Spiritual crucifixion and not a physical one ?
There is a movement afoot that says we cannot be free of sin just because we have the skin and bones of Adam.
Alluding to still being of Adam and blind to the fact that the new creature has been born of God's seed.

 

[Peterlag7]

Paul never wrote that the "old Self" is "entirely obliterated." He wrote of the "old Self" being crucified with Christ and the "body of sin" being "destroyed," but none of this equates to the "old Self" being "entirely obliterated." "Destroyed" in Romans 6:6 in Greek is katargeo, a combination of a primary particle - kata - and the verb argeo which means "to be entirely idle." In the NASB, "destroyed" in Romans 6:6 is rendered "done away with." In the ESV, it is rendered "brought to nothing." Both versions give a more accurate, less hyperbolic, rendering of katargeo than the KJV, I think.

What helps the reader of Paul's remarks in Romans 6 to understand his meaning is the way in which he begins the chapter.

Romans 6:1-3
1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?

Why would Paul write this to born-again believers? We know he is speaking to such people because he uses the pronouns "we" and "us" throughout his remarks, linking himself - a born-again man - to his readers in the things he wrote in the chapter. What would have prompted Paul to begin Romans 6, then, in the way he did? And why explain the contents of the chapter to born-again people? Well, obviously, Paul did not want his readers to "continue in sin that grace may abound." That is, they were doing so, they were continuing in sin so that grace would abound, contrary to the facts about their co-crucifixion with Christ, and needed to stop. But if this was the case for born-again believers, it means they were not sinlessly perfect, they were not living, by faith, in the truth of their union with Christ in his death, burial and resurrection. It means also, then, that their "old Self" was not utterly obliterated.

By way of the event of their salvation, every born-again person obtains a new, spiritual identity in Jesus Christ. In him, they are made a "new creature" (2 Corinthians 5:17) in whom "old things are passed away," replaced by the life and work of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ (1 Corinthians 3:16, 6:19-20; Romans 8:9-16; 1 John 4:13, etc.). This "in Christ" identity is a spiritual one that must be embraced by faith such that the person who has "put on Christ" (Romans 13:14; Galatians 3:27) "reckons/counts it so" (Romans 6:11) that they are, in Christ, who God's word says they are.

If this "reckoning it so" is not done, if the born-again believer is like the Christians to whom Paul wrote in Romans 6, ignorant of their spiritual position in Christ and living sinfully so that "grace may abound," they have no hope of enjoying fellowship with God and all the spiritual abundance that flows out of that fellowship.

1 Peter 3:12
12 For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous, and his ears are open to their prayer. But the face of the Lord is against those who do evil.”

Psalm 66:18
18 If I had cherished iniquity in my heart, the Lord would not have listened.

James 4:4-7
4 You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
5 Or do you suppose it is to no purpose that the Scripture says, “He yearns jealously over the spirit that he has made to dwell in us”?
6 But he gives more grace. Therefore it says, “God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”
7 Submit yourselves therefore to God...

We see all throughout the NT examples of born-again believers, Christians, who were far from sinlessly perfect. See 1 Corinthians 1:3, 5, 6, 11; Galatians 3:1-3; Ephesians 5:1-13; Revelation 2-3, etc. The "old Self" has been rendered inert, inoperative, entirely idle, but if a born-again believer doesn't know this and doesn't live by faith in the truth that their "old Self" is held impotent on the cross of Christ, they will be as these various carnal, sinful believers were in the Early Church. As one wise man has said, "The me I see is the me I'll be."

Call it obliterated or destroyed. Our old self is still dead. Most Christians walk in their flesh and believe themselves to be sinners because they were never taught their old nature is gone. The NIV writes it this way...

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!

 

[Hopeful 2]

Yes, as long as we are walking in the Spirit, which needs to be 24/7, but, if we are honest with our self do we always walk 24/7 seeing that we are still housed in a fleshly mortal body, but not willingly wanting to sin.

You write as if the mortal fleshly body is still yours .
If one is actually "in Christ", the vessel is the Lord's.
Paul writes..."I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." (Gal 2:20)

 

[Peterlag7]

If it is only Spiritual and not physical, how can the old self be entirely obliterated ?
How can a man be a new creature if the old one still exists ? (2 Cor 5:17)

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!

 

[Hopeful 2]

Paul never wrote that the "old Self" is "entirely obliterated." He wrote of the "old Self" being crucified with Christ and the "body of sin" being "destroyed," but none of this equates to the "old Self" being "entirely obliterated." "Destroyed" in Romans 6:6 in Greek is katargeo, a combination of a primary particle - kata - and the verb argeo which means "to be entirely idle." In the NASB, "destroyed" in Romans 6:6 is rendered "done away with." In the ESV, it is rendered "brought to nothing." Both versions give a more accurate, less hyperbolic, rendering of katargeo than the KJV, I think.

What helps the reader of Paul's remarks in Romans 6 to understand his meaning is the way in which he begins the chapter.

Romans 6:1-3
1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?

Why would Paul write this to born-again believers? We know he is speaking to such people because he uses the pronouns "we" and "us" throughout his remarks, linking himself - a born-again man - to his readers in the things he wrote in the chapter. What would have prompted Paul to begin Romans 6, then, in the way he did? And why explain the contents of the chapter to born-again people? Well, obviously, Paul did not want his readers to "continue in sin that grace may abound." That is, they were doing so, they were continuing in sin so that grace would abound, contrary to the facts about their co-crucifixion with Christ, and needed to stop. But if this was the case for born-again believers, it means they were not sinlessly perfect, they were not living, by faith, in the truth of their union with Christ in his death, burial and resurrection. It means also, then, that their "old Self" was not utterly obliterated.

By way of the event of their salvation, every born-again person obtains a new, spiritual identity in Jesus Christ. In him, they are made a "new creature" (2 Corinthians 5:17) in whom "old things are passed away," replaced by the life and work of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ (1 Corinthians 3:16, 6:19-20; Romans 8:9-16; 1 John 4:13, etc.). This "in Christ" identity is a spiritual one that must be embraced by faith such that the person who has "put on Christ" (Romans 13:14; Galatians 3:27) "reckons/counts it so" (Romans 6:11) that they are, in Christ, who God's word says they are.

If this "reckoning it so" is not done, if the born-again believer is like the Christians to whom Paul wrote in Romans 6, ignorant of their spiritual position in Christ and living sinfully so that "grace may abound," they have no hope of enjoying fellowship with God and all the spiritual abundance that flows out of that fellowship.

1 Peter 3:12
12 For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous, and his ears are open to their prayer. But the face of the Lord is against those who do evil.”

Psalm 66:18
18 If I had cherished iniquity in my heart, the Lord would not have listened.

James 4:4-7
4 You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
5 Or do you suppose it is to no purpose that the Scripture says, “He yearns jealously over the spirit that he has made to dwell in us”?
6 But he gives more grace. Therefore it says, “God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”
7 Submit yourselves therefore to God...

We see all throughout the NT examples of born-again believers, Christians, who were far from sinlessly perfect. See 1 Corinthians 1:3, 5, 6, 11; Galatians 3:1-3; Ephesians 5:1-13; Revelation 2-3, etc. The "old Self" has been rendered inert, inoperative, entirely idle, but if a born-again believer doesn't know this and doesn't live by faith in the truth that their "old Self" is held impotent on the cross of Christ, they will be as these various carnal, sinful believers were in the Early Church. As one wise man has said, "The me I see is the me I'll be."

I wasn't a believer when I first read it.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Question, you say this fleshly body literally dies when we are Spiritually born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit. If this body literally dies then how are we still living here on earth?

Rom 8:11..."But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."

 

[Peterlag7]

We are taught "to be in the spirit" means to walk upright in our flesh or to have our flesh in fellowship with God. So we read right over the many verses such as Peter and John were filled with the spirit. Or "that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" 2 Corinthians 5:21. Romans talks about no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus. Christians everywhere do not seem to understand the words "in him" or "in Christ" or "filled with the spirit." We can't see ourselves walking by the spirit because we are taught that the operations of the spirit are things we operate through our flesh. They are not the manifestations of you. They are of the spirit. We are also taught that we are sinners and this is another reason why we can't see the spirit as long as we see ourselves as a piece of trash. To see it we have to see ourselves as the righteousness of God in him.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Romans 6:6-7
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Please use a different color for your citings.
It is too hard to read !

 

[Hopeful 2]

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!

That is more than just Spiritual.

 

[JLB]

You're not understanding what I'm saying. Let me try it this way...

Your body has spiritually been crucified.

Ok

Please share the scripture that says our body has been spiritually crucified.


Paul plainly taught us to put to death the deeds of the body by the Spirit.


For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:13


He also taught us to not allow the sin in our physical body to reign over us.


Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12



Clearly we as born again Christians have a daily responsibility to walk according to the Spirit, to be led by the Spirit within us, rather than walking according to the lustful desires of our flesh.


There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
Romans 8:1


Paul said that he disciplined his body to keep it under his control so that he himself would not become disqualified.


But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.
1 Corinthians 9:27

 

[Peterlag7]

Ok

Please share the scripture that says our body has been spiritually crucified.


Paul plainly taught us to put to death the deeds of the body by the Spirit.


For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:13


He also taught us to not allow the sin in our physical body to reign over us.


Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12



Clearly we as born again Christians have a daily responsibility to walk according to the Spirit, to be led by the Spirit within us, rather than walking according to the lustful desires of our flesh.


There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
Romans 8:1


Paul said that he disciplined his body to keep it under his control so that he himself would not become disqualified.


But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.
1 Corinthians 9:27

Romans 8:9-10
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you...

And if Christ be in you, the body is dead...

 

[JLB]

Romans 8:9-10
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you...

And if Christ be in you, the body is dead...

Yes if Christ is in you the body is dead, not resurrected like you claim.


For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:13


Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
Romans 6:12

 

[Tenchi]

Call it obliterated or destroyed. Our old self is still dead.

I don't think you understood - or, perhaps, haven't even read - my last post to you. "Destroyed" doesn't mean obliterated, or any other such thing. The "old Self" is rendered impotent, or entirely idle, which is what "katargeo" - the Greek word translated "destroyed" - actually means, not annihilated, or utterly demolished, or whatever. The "old Self" is crucified and thus held powerless on the cross of Christ; but any time we want to be ruled by the "old Self" rather than Christ, it will instantly begin to direct us again, as we see in our own lives and in the lives of the earliest Christians in the record of the NT.

Most Christians walk in their flesh and believe themselves to be sinners because they were never taught their old nature is gone. The NIV writes it this way...

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!

Yes, the majority of born-again people don't know who they are in Jesus Christ, what their spiritual inheritance is in him, and they live accordingly. After all, "the me I see is the me I'll be." But the "old Self" isn't gone, but only held impotent and idle upon the cross of Calvary - so long as we, by faith, reckon that it is so (Romans 6:11).