How to walk by the spirit.

[Hopeful 2]

1 John 1:7 does not mention water baptism.

Right, but it does mention the washing away of sins...just as baptism is does, to do in Acts 2:38.

The water you quote in 1 John 5:8 is referring to the water that makes up our bodies. We are water, body, and spirit.

I can't agree.

Acts 22:16 is referring to being baptized in the Lord Christ Jesus. Water is not mention because water does nothing other then get you wet.

Being "immersed" into Christ is also a part of what water baptism does.
But not the only thing.
Besides remission of past sins, water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ also provides the means of the old man's destruction. (Rom 6:6, Gal 5:24)
And rebirth. (Rom 6:4)
Where do you see a baptism of the Holy Ghost remitting past sins ?
Any where ?

 

[Free]

Baptism in water, and the need to be circumcised passed away with the coming of Pentecost, as did the other Levitical Laws. To be led by the spirit is to not be under the yoke of bondage with the extreme of legalism, seeking the works of the flesh from the old covenant concerning the past Law administration that was written to Israel.

Obeying Christ is not legalism. The need for circumcision has passed, but baptism? Just before his ascension, Jesus tells the disciples to go make disciples of all nations and baptize them (Matt. 28:19). He also tells them to first wait in Jerusalem for the promise of the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:4), which came about ten days after his ascension. Yet, you actually believe that baptism "passed away with the coming of Pentecost," which means Jesus command to baptize was utterly meaningless.

Do you see how your position makes no sense of what the Bible says?

It's clear from the gospels that water baptism had to do with the kingdom, which was ministered by John who was known as the Baptizer, and not a minister for the Church of God.

Again, this makes no sense of the biblical text. First, we see what John's baptism was about:

Mar 1:4 John appeared, baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

John the Baptizer was the last of the prophets, the forerunner of the Messiah, to prepare the way of the Lord:

Mat 11:13 For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John

Second, we see that not only affirmed, but also that the Apostles continued to baptize people as Jesus commanded:

Act 19:3 And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” They said, “Into John's baptism.”
Act 19:4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.”
Act 19:5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Third, yes, baptism has to do with the kingdom, but the kingdom began with Jesus's ministry and was inaugurated with his death and resurrection. We are in the kingdom now, which has yet to come in its fullness, but will do so when Christ returns.

Mat 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Mat 8:11 I tell you, many will come from east and west and recline at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven,

Mat 10:7 And proclaim as you go, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’

Mat 11:11 Truly, I say to you, among those born of women there has arisen no one greater than John the Baptist. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Mat 13:37 He answered, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man.
Mat 13:38 The field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one,
Mat 13:39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are angels.
Mat 13:40 Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the end of the age.
Mat 13:41 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers,
Mat 13:42 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Act 14:22 strengthening the souls of the disciples, encouraging them to continue in the faith, and saying that through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God.

Act 19:8 And he entered the synagogue and for three months spoke boldly, reasoning and persuading them about the kingdom of God.

Act 20:25 And now, behold, I know that none of you among whom I have gone about proclaiming the kingdom will see my face again.

Act 28:23 When they had appointed a day for him, they came to him at his lodging in greater numbers. From morning till evening he expounded to them, testifying to the kingdom of God and trying to convince them about Jesus both from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets.

Act 28:31 proclaiming the kingdom of God and teaching about the Lord Jesus Christ with all boldness and without hindrance.

Etc.

(All ESV.)

. John who was a prophet functioning under the old covenant was appointed by God to prepare and confirm the promises made to Israel. His message was to tell those who lived under the old covenant that the king had come and “the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” He used water as a sign to baptize those who believed the promised Messiah would be coming in just a matter of months and to illustrate that he would be the Christ, who would baptize them not with material water, but with holy spirit, which is “power from on high.”

First, Jesus's disciples baptized people with water:

Joh 4:1 Now when Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus was making and baptizing more disciples than John
Joh 4:2 (although Jesus himself did not baptize, but only his disciples), (ESV)

Second, being baptized in water does not preclude being baptized with the Holy Spirit. In fact, in Acts Peter says that receiving the Holy Spirit is based on first being baptized, which means water.

Act 2:37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”
Act 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (ESV)

From the habit of tradition, and only for a short period of time, a small handful of people were baptized with water into the New Testament, but never again afterwards.

Act 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Act 2:39 For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” (ESV)

You're going against Scripture by saying it isn't for "everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself." You even say that "only for a short period of time, a small handful of people were baptized with water into the New Testament, but never again afterwards." Your position contradicts Scripture and the command of Jesus.

Also, from the Didache, generally considered a first century work:

"Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism. And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if you have no living water, baptize into other water; and if you cannot do so in cold water, do so in warm. But if you have neither, pour out water three times upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whoever else can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before."

https://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/didache-roberts.html

In the epistles written just a little bit past the beginning of the New Testament is where we read the only time water baptism is mentioned is to note there is no more need for it,

Where, exactly, is that stated?

and that we are now to be baptized with holy spirit. And this is why in Acts 2:38, Peter commands “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ.” In Acts 8:16, Peter and John “baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” In Acts 10:48, Peter “commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.” In Romans 6:3, it declares “that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ.” There is not one exception to this practice where we see water baptism, which belonged to the time period when Christ walked the earth, being used once the Church of God had become established.

All water baptism.

 

[Free]

Water accomplishes nothing other than getting you wet. The fact that you think water splashed on someone means something to God causes me to be sad.

Since Jesus commanded believers to be baptized and so that is what the Apostles and early church did, doesn't that suggest that it really does mean something to God? Water baptism doesn't save, but it is commanded by Jesus himself. Jesus also said that those who love him will keep his commandments (John 14:15, 21) and that those who keep his commandments will abide in his love (John 15:10). Hence why John mentions it six times in his first epistle and once in the second one.

 

[Corinth77777]

Yes.
It is a command of both Jesus, the apostles, and others in Christ.
Jesus..."He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:16)
Jesus..."Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:" (Matt 28:19)
Peter..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)
Philip..."And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him." (Acts 8:38)
Ananias..."And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." (Acts 22:16)
Paul..."Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." (Acts 19:4-5)

Without water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ, there is no remission of past sins. (Acts 2:38, Rom 3:25)

Sorry that wasn't for you to answer! Yet it was to show that Perlag7 didn't believe as you. We have already discussed this and we don't agree. I believe a person should be baptized especially in the sense their church understands the significance.

I don't agree that all the scriptures you are referring to are about water either.

I believe People do not have to know everything for God to intervene on their behalf. Scripture says anyone that does righteous is acceptable onto Him. The way you make it sound is that water Baptism is the only way sins are forgiven. But that is not logical, and puts God in a box that He can only work one way.

So of course we disagree because I know what He did for me. God can make one stand with the knowledge they know and at their understanding.

But my main reason for asking Pete was to show that you guys dont believe the same. So if Peterlag7 never got baptized you, according to previous discussions would say His sins were not forgiven.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Sorry that wasn't for you to answer!

Oooops.

Yet it was to show that Perlag7 didn't believe as you. We have already discussed this and we don't agree. I believe a person should be baptized especially in the sense their church understands the significance.
I don't agree that all the scriptures you are referring to are about water either.

The fruit of the belief is a life without sin.
Does your belief achieve that ?

I believe People do not have to know everything for God to intervene on their behalf. Scripture says anyone that does righteous is acceptable onto Him. The way you make it sound is that water Baptism is the only way sins are forgiven. But that is not logical, and puts God in a box that He can only work one way.

As God is unboxable, He can forgive sins anyway He desires.
We, however, are told how past sins are remitted, in Acts 2:38.

So of course we disagree because I know what He did for me. God can make one stand with the knowledge they know and at their understanding.

The fruit is the determinant of any seed.

But my main reason for asking Pete was to show that you guys dont believe the same.

OK.

So if Peterlag7 never got baptized you, according to previous discussions, would say His sins were not forgiven.

That is what the bible leads me to believe.
The bible also leads me to believe his old man was not destroyed, (Rom 6:6), and he wasn't raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:4)
If he wasn't crucified with Him, or buried with Him, he certainly wasn't raised with Him.

 

[Peterlag7]

Since Jesus commanded believers to be baptized and so that is what the Apostles and early church did, doesn't that suggest that it really does mean something to God? Water baptism doesn't save, but it is commanded by Jesus himself. Jesus also said that those who love him will keep his commandments (John 14:15, 21) and that those who keep his commandments will abide in his love (John 15:10). Hence why John mentions it six times in his first epistle and once in the second one.

Jesus was talking to his Jewish Apostles and the Christians.

 

[Peterlag7]

Obeying Christ is not legalism. The need for circumcision has passed, but baptism? Just before his ascension, Jesus tells the disciples to go make disciples of all nations and baptize them (Matt. 28:19). He also tells them to first wait in Jerusalem for the promise of the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:4), which came about ten days after his ascension. Yet, you actually believe that baptism "passed away with the coming of Pentecost," which means Jesus command to baptize was utterly meaningless.

Do you see how your position makes no sense of what the Bible says?


Again, this makes no sense of the biblical text. First, we see what John's baptism was about:

Mar 1:4 John appeared, baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

John the Baptizer was the last of the prophets, the forerunner of the Messiah, to prepare the way of the Lord:

Mat 11:13 For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John

Second, we see that not only affirmed, but also that the Apostles continued to baptize people as Jesus commanded:

Act 19:3 And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” They said, “Into John's baptism.”
Act 19:4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.”
Act 19:5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Third, yes, baptism has to do with the kingdom, but the kingdom began with Jesus's ministry and was inaugurated with his death and resurrection. We are in the kingdom now, which has yet to come in its fullness, but will do so when Christ returns.

Mat 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Mat 8:11 I tell you, many will come from east and west and recline at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven,

Mat 10:7 And proclaim as you go, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’

Mat 11:11 Truly, I say to you, among those born of women there has arisen no one greater than John the Baptist. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Mat 13:37 He answered, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man.
Mat 13:38 The field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one,
Mat 13:39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are angels.
Mat 13:40 Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the end of the age.
Mat 13:41 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers,
Mat 13:42 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Act 14:22 strengthening the souls of the disciples, encouraging them to continue in the faith, and saying that through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God.

Act 19:8 And he entered the synagogue and for three months spoke boldly, reasoning and persuading them about the kingdom of God.

Act 20:25 And now, behold, I know that none of you among whom I have gone about proclaiming the kingdom will see my face again.

Act 28:23 When they had appointed a day for him, they came to him at his lodging in greater numbers. From morning till evening he expounded to them, testifying to the kingdom of God and trying to convince them about Jesus both from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets.

Act 28:31 proclaiming the kingdom of God and teaching about the Lord Jesus Christ with all boldness and without hindrance.

Etc.

(All ESV.)


First, Jesus's disciples baptized people with water:

Joh 4:1 Now when Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus was making and baptizing more disciples than John
Joh 4:2 (although Jesus himself did not baptize, but only his disciples), (ESV)

Second, being baptized in water does not preclude being baptized with the Holy Spirit. In fact, in Acts Peter says that receiving the Holy Spirit is based on first being baptized, which means water.

Act 2:37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”
Act 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (ESV)


Act 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Act 2:39 For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” (ESV)

You're going against Scripture by saying it isn't for "everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself." You even say that "only for a short period of time, a small handful of people were baptized with water into the New Testament, but never again afterwards." Your position contradicts Scripture and the command of Jesus.

Also, from the Didache, generally considered a first century work:

"Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism. And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if you have no living water, baptize into other water; and if you cannot do so in cold water, do so in warm. But if you have neither, pour out water three times upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whoever else can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before."

https://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/didache-roberts.html


Where, exactly, is that stated?


All water baptism.

Jesus did not tell his Apostles to baptize Christians with water. There's no water in the verse. I know you assume it's there, but it's not. Jesus was telling his Apostles to baptize in the name of Jesus Christ. Not water.

 

[Corinth77777]

Oooops.

The fruit of the belief is a life without sin.
Does your belief achieve that ?

As God is unboxable, He can forgive sins anyway He desires.
We, however, are told how past sins are remitted, in Acts 2:38.

The fruit is the determinant of any seed.

OK.

That is what the bible leads me to believe.
The bible also leads me to believe his old man was not destroyed, (Rom 6:6), and he wasn't raised with Christ

Kjv

"Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."

to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:4)
If he wasn't crucified with Him, or buried with Him, he certainly wasn't raised with Him.

Romans 6:4 in the King James Version of the Bible reads, "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life

 

[Peterlag7]

Right, but it does mention the washing away of sins...just as baptism is does, to do in Acts 2:38.

I can't agree.

Being "immersed" into Christ is also a part of what water baptism does.
But not the only thing.
Besides remission of past sins, water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ also provides the means of the old man's destruction. (Rom 6:6, Gal 5:24)
And rebirth. (Rom 6:4)
Where do you see a baptism of the Holy Ghost remitting past sins ?
Any where ?

Find me a place in the New Testament where the Apostles baptized someone with water other than Philip who ran into a guy who asked for it.

 

[Peterlag7]

The thought of your rejection of Jesus' words makes me sad.
Jesus said..."Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen." (Matt 28:19-20)

Who was it that told you to reject water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins ?

Show me where the word "water" is mentioned in the following verse.

Jesus said..."Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

 

[Peterlag7]

You either believe the scripture or you don’t. The choice is yours.

There's no Scripture teaching that Christians should baptize other Christians with water.

 

[Peterlag7]

Would you call this “sanctification” perhaps?

1 Corinthians 1:2
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

Jesus Christ stripped off all adverse principalities and powers and was no longer subject to the natural realm when he was raised from the dead. God has made Jesus Christ to be free from among the exercised or operative influence of sin. It's Jesus Christ who became the first to be set apart from sin, appointed to a new position of work, by way of a ceremonial cleansing and purification by his Father. Therefore, he was made free from the slavery of sin nature and death, and became the head of the body, the first born among many brethren.

 

[Corinth77777]

Kjv

"Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."

Mmmmmmm
It seems that the way in which this is interpreted is: walking by the Holyghost, which I'll call the Spirit of Christ, the resurrected power of His glorified body we become like what we choose to follow.

What it didn't say is the body of sin is or was destroyed, however "that it might be."

Romans 6:4 in the King James Version of the Bible reads, "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life

The terms " like and as" shows comparison. And here you did not do what Christ did, but through the committment of following Him participated in the likeness. So I find that you have read into to the scripture " is destroyed" rather than might be.

Another words as scripture tells us, in using the term " might" >again<, that He came that He might destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 3:8

"He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.”


Hopeful 2

 

[Corinth77777]

Water accomplishes nothing other than getting you wet. The fact that you think water splashed on someone means something to God causes me to be sad.

If what is said in 1 Peter 3:21... concerning the response to God as water baptism then it is our commitment to dying everyday that gives us a clear conscience before God.

I disagree that in their time, and in many churches that teach baptismal regeneration for remission of sin that it meant nothing to them.

It was about faith. If one believed water would save them then it most likely could have if they acted in faith. Faith in my view is moving in what you say you believe to be true. Another words God could use water to deliver people. As He told the man to take up His bed and walk, or the woman who believed if she could touch the hem of His garment shed be made whole..It was their action in faith. As walking around the wall of Jericho..and the list goes on.

Rhectorically, What did it mean that whatever Peter loosed on earth would be loosed in heaven?

So it should not cause you to be sad, one may be thinking the same on your behalf when you call yourself an advance Christian..Point is God is the one who makes one stand. He judges the heart, I highly doubt if He judges by rather we got all the correct answers and understanding.

 

[JLB]

There's no Scripture teaching that Christians should baptize other Christians with water.

And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5



Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him. Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?”
Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”
So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing. Acts 8:35-39

• And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. Now when they came up out of the water

While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.
Acts 10:44-48

• Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

JLB

 

[Follower Of Christ]

What about the supplier of water baptism? Let's suppose for the sake of argument that water baptism is needed for the remission of sins and spiritual regeneration. Well the one providing the water baptism should be sanctified by the Father, be in Christ Jesus and imbued with the Holy Ghost in order for water baptism to be effective for the recipient. Do you really think all who provide water baptisms satisfy these criteria and are like Phillip? All it takes is for one human provider to fail and water baptism is invalid as a means of deliverance in its total impact. Do you really think the Trinity would err in this respect? Are you saying Trinity makes mistakes as a logical consequence?

The only way out of this logical paradox is that water baptism is not necessary for remission of sins and spiritual regeneration. Otherwise one falls into the sensuality trap since getting water baptism becomes a psychological crutch.

Truly, God does operate through men, but when it comes to sancification in the Father, being in Christ Jesus snd imbued with the Holy Ghost let the divine do its bidding at the right time and place. No water baptism is needed for salvation.

 

[Corinth77777]

What about the supplier of water baptism? Let's suppose for the sake of argument that water baptism is needed for the remission of sins and spiritual regeneration. Well the one providing the water baptism should be sanctified by the Father, be in Christ Jesus and imbued with the Holy Ghost in order for water baptism to be effective for the recipient. Do you really think all who provide water baptisms satisfy these criteria and are like Phillip? All it takes is for one human provider to fail and water baptism is invalid as a means of deliverance in its total impact. Do you really think the Trinity would err in this respect? Are you saying Trinity makes mistakes as a logical consequence?

The only way out of this logical paradox is that water baptism is not necessary for remission of sins and spiritual regeneration. Otherwise one falls into the sensuality trap since getting water baptism becomes a psychological crutch.

Truly, God does operate through men, but when it comes to sancification in the Father, being in Christ Jesus snd imbued with the Holy Ghost let the divine do its bidding at the right time and place. No water baptism is needed for salvation.

It was in certain cases, I think whatever Peter loosed on earth would be loosed in heaven. So if Peter commanded Water Baptism to those who asked what must we do and they exercised their faith through this event then their sins could have been known to be forgiven.

How does it go: If you are in the light you should also walk in the light.

Water Baptism one might say is a way one appealed to God for a clear conscience, through commitment to their Lord.

I do think there were some baptisms still running at the same time. For example those people had never repented, so did they just participate in the Baptism of John and receive the Lord Jesus at the same time?

 

[Follower Of Christ]

It was in certain cases, I think whatever Peter loosed on earth would be loosed in heaven. So if Peter commanded Water Baptism to those who asked what must we do and they exercised their faith through this event then their sins could have been known to be forgiven.

How does it go: If you are in the light you should also walk in the light.

Water Baptism one might say is a way one appealed to God for a clear conscience, through commitment to their Lord.

I do think there were some baptisms still running at the same time. For example those people had never repented, so did they just participate in the Baptism of John and receive the Lord Jesus at the same time?

I understand where you are coming from. However the physical location where Matthew 16:18 transpired is Mount Hermon a place of idol worship. That clarifies the context. Christ referred to the rock as himself and not to Peter because the keys are with Christ not with Peter. You can see that also on Revelation 3:7 where Christ holds the key of David.

No man holds the key to another man's salvation. And no church has the key of David including the Catholic church for example. Christ only has that key.

From Matthew 7:24 "Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock."

Trust God not man's operation for your salvation. And trust God's scripture not man's rendition of the scripture.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Kjv
"Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
Romans 6:4 in the King James Version of the Bible reads, "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life

Yep.
Printing out the scrip's I cited, doesn't let me know how you think on the issue.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Find me a place in the New Testament where the Apostles baptized someone with water other than Philip who ran into a guy who asked for it.

That sure de-emphasizes the fact that God led Philip to the eunuch.
Your true colors are starting to show.

Let's start with Cornelius' household...
"Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?" (Acts 10:47)
The Samarians in Acts 8...
"But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women." (Acts 8:12)
And the big three at Corinth...
"I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
And I baptized also the household of Stephanas:" (1 Cor 1:14-16)
The Philippian jailer...
"And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway." (Acts 16:33)
Lydia and her household at Thyatira...
"And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us." (Acts 16:14)
Crispus, and the 'many' of Corinth...
"And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized." (Acts 18:8)
And, of course, the twelve at Ephesus...
"Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." (Acts 19:4-5)