[_ Old Earth _] How well do you actually know The Theory of Evolution?

[Edward]

In a nutshell God is the Creator who set things into motion by which the universe and man came to be. Under His direction man evolved. In short, God uses evolution as the tool for the creation of man as well as the universe as we know it. There's no conflict with scripture or science. Much of Genesis is allegorical and had to be. There's no way the ancients could possibly conceive of such things as black holes, stars, planets or the workings thereof. So it makes sense God in His wisdom inspired scripture that all could understand. Besides, the Bible is not a science book. The Bible is the story of God's pursuit of the hearts of men.

This is you explaining what TE'ists believe, or what you believe?

That actually brings up a good question. Is the bible allegorical? Is it literal? Is it both? How much is, how much isn't how do you decide what is and isn't?

Do TE believe that scripture is the divinely inspired word of God? Absolutely true? Or no?

For the record, I believe that the Holy Spirit divinely dictated the entire bible, word by word to men to write it down.

 

[Rick W]

This is you explaining what TE'ists believe, or what you believe?

That actually brings up a good question. Is the bible allegorical? Is it literal? Is it both? How much is, how much isn't how do you decide what is and isn't?

Do TE believe that scripture is the divinely inspired word of God? Absolutely true? Or no?

For the record, I believe that the Holy Spirit divinely dictated the entire bible, word by word to men to write it down.

I was a TE after Christ touched my heart. Before that I was just a simple, staunch evolutionist with no concern for superstitions and the like. Things change though and so did I.

Anyway,
Of course "we" (as in the past) believe scripture is the divinely inspired word of God. No reason not to.


"For the record, I believe that the Holy Spirit divinely dictated the entire bible, word by word to men to write it down."

So do "we". I see no problem here.

I think this is where the arguing begins but let's hope not.

 

[Edward]

No baiting needed. I explained it. Briefly perhaps but none-the-less explained. I can take the position and you'll find my arguments won't fit your beliefs no matter what I say. Rejection of science when it's there for all to see is what's unexplainable.

See?

Yeah, I see your point. But I (for the record do believe in science) do not think that science should or would conflict with what the bible says if it is true science.

Science does know some things and are wrong about some things. As technology increases, we are able to prove things and adjust the science. But they don't always do that. Science has proved some earlier theories were wrong...and they are still teaching the error in schools. Why is that?

 

[Gary]

I'm not sure if it would undermine the gospel or not.

The Word of God says we were made from the dust of the earth. Evolution says we crawled out the water. If I accept evolution as fact, I'm dismissing the Word of God.

 

[Edward]

I was a TE after Christ touched my heart. Things change though.
Of course "we" (as in the past) believe scripture is the divinely inspired word of God. No reason not to.


"For the record, I believe that the Holy Spirit divinely dictated the entire bible, word by word to men to write it down."

So do "we". I see no problem here.

I think this is where the arguing begins but let's hope not.

I hope not too. We're just talking and there's no reason to become emotional or frustrated with either camp. Just adult discussion. Academic pursuit with the goal of edification.

 

[Edward]

The Word of God says we were made from the dust of the earth. Evolution says we crawled out the water. If I accept evolution as fact, I'm dismissing the Word of God.

Hmmm. I do believe you're right brother. That's kind of a big one huh? How do TE reconcile that?

Oh, don't tell me...Genesis is allegorical and metaphors.

 

[Gary]

Gary,
The same thing will be said about Creationism.

Creation comes from the Word of God. Evolution comes from the heart of man.
.

 

[Rick W]

OK, what is being taught that is in error?

I hope not too. We're just talking and there's no reason to become emotional or frustrated with either camp. Just adult discussion. Academic pursuit with the goal of edification.

LOL!
I was just being a moderator.
/Rick... stop that!
Seen too much of it I guess.

 

[Edward]

Ok, maybe we're getting to something here...

Allegory:
a representation of an abstract or spiritual meaning through concrete or material forms;figurative treatment of one subject under the guise of another.

So assuming for the sake of discussion, that Genesis is allegorical... if it is not a literal creation account...then what are we supposed to take from Genesis as the allegorical message, my friendly TE brothers?

 

[Rick W]

Creation comes from the Word of God. Evolution comes from the heart of man.
.

Evolution comes from the logical study of astronomy, physics, chemistry ... the list goes on.
I would think what comes from the heart is the faith that Christ is Lord and Savior.

 

[Rick W]

Ok, maybe we're getting to something here...

Allegory:
a representation of an abstract or spiritual meaning through concrete or material forms;figurative treatment of one subject under the guise of another.

So assuming for the sake of discussion, that Genesis is allegorical... if it is not a literal creation account...then what are we supposed to take from Genesis as the allegorical message, my friendly TE brothers?

That God is indeed the Creator of all things including man.

 

[Edward]

OK, what is being taught that is in error?


LOL!
I was just being a moderator.
/Rick... stop that!
Seen too much of it I guess.

I'll tell you what Rick, I have answers for this, but I'm going to do it tomorrow ok? I have to hit the sack. I have work early and a busy day planned.

Good night brothers and sisters!

 

[Rick W]

Nite Edward.
it's been fun.

I'm turning in too.
See ya tomorrow Gary

 

[Gary]

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Well I am back from what was a fantastic weekend, I have to say I am rather disappointed, as there weren't really genuine attempts to explain evolution. I will address some of the noteworthy posts that sort of attempted to do this.

A summation very succinct is first there was nothing...and then it exploded (I know, I know, that's cosmology but the evolutionists pretty much think that everything happened from normal processes, and then it led up to bio-genesis).

Neither of these things relate to Evolution. This is kind of a simplistic and inaccurate understanding of the Big Bang, as it was not really an explosion, and it wasn't "nothing" that "exploded," but a singularity that expanded.

Also, abiogenesis* is about how life arose from non-living material, which is not related to Evolution and is a separate theory and many Theistic Evolutionists do not accept this.

Then we were all bacteria and amoebas in the sea and sfter millions or billions of years fish grew and at some point decided that they wanted to go out onto the land so they went back into the sea for another million years while they grew legs and then came out and kept evolving and differentiating into different species and multiplying.

This isn't really a description of evolution, but rather an inaccurate description of the history of life. Explaining evolution would be explaining the processes of how the diverse forms of life on this planet share common ancestry.

Then one day some monkeys wanted a mustang and realized that they needed ratchets and sockets to make it, so evolved into homo sapiens so they could learn to make the tools to make the car...and here we are.

This part is completely accurate

That's the short version. I do have a serious question.

Entropy is...chaos, a...lack of information, right? Order is the opposite or, information, right? Do we agree on that?

This thread isn't about the Second Law of Thermodynamics, you can start another thread about that.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Evolution is a theory stating that all life shares a common ancestor.

I'm a creationist, but a rather apathetic one. I don't care for how the church demonizes the existence of theistic evolution.

I can appreciate that, thank you.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Ok, maybe we're getting to something here...

Allegory:
a representation of an abstract or spiritual meaning through concrete or material forms;figurative treatment of one subject under the guise of another.

So assuming for the sake of discussion, that Genesis is allegorical... if it is not a literal creation account...then what are we supposed to take from Genesis as the allegorical message, my friendly TE brothers?

This thread isn't about Genesis being literal or allegorical.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

I've been here a very long time as this site goes, read multitudes of posts from both sides.
I used to be a staunch evolutionist. A Theistic Evolutionist, a TE when I finally surrendered to Christ. For several years afterward I too argued heatedly against the preposterous idea of creationism. I loved science, still do. Had 5 sciences in my senior year of HS that I did very well in because of that interest. And I'm still as interested as ever.
As the years went by I abandoned theistic evolution and became a creationist. That didn't happen overnight. Then I found this site in 2004 I think and been here ever since.

"but if its a field you aren't specialized in, its understandable if you don't know everything and might hold concepts that are not completely correct."

You have no idea how that comes across.
But getting through the first impressions of that statement I can say my time here has afforded me the opportunity of being exposed to more experts specializing in their field, reading their conclusions, their opinions and their beliefs more than a large part of the populace. And I'm still a Creationist believing and teaching those claimed "concepts that are not completely correct."

Since you were an evolutionists, perhaps you can go into detail about how well you understand the Theory of Evolution?

 

[Edward]

Well I am back from what was a fantastic weekend, I have to say I am rather disappointed, as there weren't really genuine attempts to explain evolution. I will address some of the noteworthy posts that sort of attempted to do this.


Neither of these things relate to Evolution. This is kind of a simplistic and inaccurate understanding of the Big Bang, as it was not really an explosion, and it wasn't "nothing" that "exploded," but a singularity that expanded.

Also, abiogenesis* is about how life arose from non-living material, which is not related to Evolution and is a separate theory and many Theistic Evolutionists do not accept this.


This isn't really a description of evolution, but rather an inaccurate description of the history of life. Explaining evolution would be explaining the processes of how the diverse forms of life on this planet share common ancestry.


This part is completely accurate


This thread isn't about the Second Law of Thermodynamics, you can start another thread about that.

No brother. You need to get fair here. All you're doing is asking questions and then telling people that they're wrong. I think it's very fitting that you do a little explaining about why you believe what you believe.

Since you were an evolutionists, perhaps you can go into detail about how well you understand the Theory of Evolution?

See? Here you go. Perhaps you can go into detail about how well you understand it and how (to you) that evolution fits in with scripture without conflicting with it. The way you're doing it is sorta trollish if you don't plan to lay some of your cards on the table too.

Whether or not Genesis is allegory or literal has a lot to do with this thread. You're stating to the world that you're Christian, and stonewalling when you're asked questions.

Do you or do you not, believe that the bible is the inspired Word of God?

1 Peter 3:15
15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:/(KJV)

How about it, Christian brother?

 

[Rick W]

Since you were an evolutionists, perhaps you can go into detail about how well you understand the Theory of Evolution?

You think all evolutionists, theistic evolutioinists, creationists or old earthers agree on the same things among their respective beliefs?
I'm in the crosshairs and anything I say, good, right, off base or otherwise will be set upon to prove something against what I believe now.
If you care to explain your slant on the Theory of Evolution, in detail, that's fine and I'll sit back and throw the darts.