[_ Old Earth _] How well do you actually know The Theory of Evolution?

[Doulos Iesou]

The main focus of this thread may not be what is listed there, but to have an honest discussion those areas need to be broached.

1. If Evolution is consistent with Scripture: This is a Christian environment and nowhere in scripture will we find any mention of evolution or even a hint of it's existence. We would be remiss if we were not to bring this to the attention of the readers. Especially children and those who are new in their walk.

This thread is NOT about this, discuss elsewhere and stop hijacking my thread.

2. If Evolution is true: This has to be addressed also, otherwise what's the point? If we can't produce evidence for our views, it just turns into a one sided conversation.

This thread is about how well Creationists understand the Theory of Evolution, not whether it is true. If this thread was about it being true I would have stated such in my Original Post.

This isn't difficult to understand.

3. What Evolutionists have to say about Evolution: There are evolutionists who are becoming creationists. This also should be made known. If a hardcore evolutionist suddenly changes their stance, it would be interesting to know why.

That's great, start your own thread about that subject. This thread is about how well Creationists understand evolution.

I'm a Creationist and everything I know about the Theory of Evolution points to it being false. Lack of fossil evidence.

Please, tell me what you know about the Theory of Evolution. Then we will actually be able to have a conversation as it relates to my OP.

 

[Rick W]

This ignores the debate among Biologists regarding Punctuated Equilibrium and Gradualism as I already noted and has been previously discussed somewhat recently on this forum. This is not a key aspect of the Theory of Evolution, and thus not a good summation of the overall Theory.

OK
Just thought it was an opportunity for you to get things started


I'm out

 

[Doulos Iesou]

OK
Just thought it was an opportunity for you to get things started


I'm out

Any word from the moderator on keeping things on topic? Would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Gary]

Please, tell me what you know about the Theory of Evolution. Then we will actually be able to have a conversation as it relates to my OP.

It's a bogus theory with no evidence to back it. That's what I know about the Theory of Evolution. I could elaborate but the guidelines set up for this thread prevents me from doing so.
.

 

[Rick W]

As per the ToS

Please refrain from taking a thread too far off topic. Slight tangents are ok, but we prefer to keep threads as they have been defined in the OP (Original Post).

Posts can be deleted. That's all that can be done. But I cannot sit here and review every post for the rest of the evening. I'm at work but will touch base as I get the opportunity.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

As per the ToS

Please refrain from taking a thread too far off topic. Slight tangents are ok, but we prefer to keep threads as they have been defined in the OP (Original Post).

Posts can be deleted. That's all that can be done. But I cannot sit here and review every post for the rest of the evening. I'm at work but will touch base as I get the opportunity.

Thanks Rick, appreciate it!

 

[Edward]

From a creationists point of view (and science too), the crux of it is that evolutionists can not explain darwiniism or or the origin of life or prove it because they can not explain the origin of information.

In order for mutations to be able to take place, new in formation is needed for the DNA of the animal or wotnot to be able to make the mutation/transformation. So evolution is a hoax because you can't get something from nothing.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

From a creationists point of view (and science too), the crux of it is that evolutionists can not explain darwiniism or or the origin of life or prove it because they can not explain the origin of information.

In order for mutations to be able to take place, new in formation is needed for the DNA of the animal or wotnot to be able to make the mutation/transformation. So evolution is a hoax because you can't get something from nothing.

Evolution is entirely separate from abiogenesis, which I as a Christian do not hold to. The Theory of Evolution is about the origin of species, and how the diversity of life arose from a common ancestor, it does not say anything about where that common ancestor arose from.

So the information about the Theory of Evolution in your post is inaccurate, and thus not a valid argument against evolution, which is not the purpose of this thread.

The purpose of this thread is for Creationists to explain the Theory of Evolution, not attack it or argue against it. It is assumed that you disagree, but that does not mean that you are unable to explain it accurately.

 

[Obadiah]

I'm confused by this conversation. To explain something accurately without mentioning it's weaknesses usually means to defend it, even if inadvertently. If a person doesn't believe in evolution, why would he have any interest in explaining it without also pointing out it's weaknesses? Maybe that's why people are having a hard time understanding what it is you want them to say or to respond in the way you want them to respond?

 

[Doulos Iesou]

I'm confused by this conversation. To explain something accurately without mentioning it's weaknesses usually means to defend it, even if inadvertently. If a person doesn't believe in evolution, why would he have any interest in explaining it without also pointing out it's weaknesses? Maybe that's why people are having a hard time understanding what it is you want them to say or to respond in the way you want them to respond?

That is not true, and I will explain why. I don't agree with 9/11 Truthers, yet it is conceivably possible to represent their views accurately in such a way that I do not also criticize it. This would simply demonstrate that I understand their view, as I would not make any reference to whether or not it is true.

This is something that is often done in debates to see if a person can actually properly represent an opposing view, rather than arguing against a Straw Man or false conception of that view.

I can also properly explain what a Creationist believes, without assenting to agreement that the beliefs held by Creationists are true.

Perhaps one could even say, "I am not an evolutionist and I don't agree with what they believe, but this is what they believe."

So to think they are defending it, would be incorrect as the purpose of this thread is to clarify if those attacking Evolution actually understand it.

 

[Obadiah]

...yet it is conceivably possible to represent their views accurately in such a way that I do not also criticize it...

Perhaps you're right that it is "conceivably" possible to do this. I guess for me, and maybe for others too, it's probably not something many of us would be able to do in good conscience. Maybe your expectation of many people being able to do this was a bit to high, and that's why you are having trouble getting people to say things in just the way you want them to.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Perhaps you're right that it is "conceivably" possible to do this. I guess for me, and maybe for others too, it's probably not something many of us would be able to do in good conscience. Maybe your expectation of many people being able to do this was a bit to high, and that's why you are having trouble getting people to say things in just the way you want them to.

I don't know how people can in good conscience object to something if they don't understand it. I also don't see why someone would object to demonstrating an understanding of something, even if that concept or theory is something that they disagree with.

I might feel that 9/11 Truthers hold to a disgusting view, but that does not mean that I cannot separate myself from my emotions and accurately represent their view.

 

[Gary]

Please, tell me what you know about the Theory of Evolution. Then we will actually be able to have a conversation as it relates to my OP.

It's a bogus theory with no evidence to back it. That's what I know about the Theory of Evolution. I could elaborate but the guidelines set up for this thread prevents me from doing so..

Would you like to address this or is this outside your guidelines?

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Would you like to address this or is this outside your guidelines?

I want you to attempt to accurately represent what the Theory of Evolution is, from the perspective of a person who actually believes it. This means I don't want your opinion on whether or not it's true (I already have that), I just want to hear how you think it works in a conceptual sense.

Can you do that?

 

[Gary]

I want you to attempt to accurately represent what the Theory of Evolution is, from the perspective of a person who actually believes it. This means I don't want your opinion on whether or not it's true (I already have that), I just want to hear how you think it works in a conceptual sense.

Can you do that?

Sure, I can do that.

The evolutionist believes in his heart that all life evolved from lower life forms.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Sure, I can do that.

The evolutionist believes in his heart that all life evolved from lower life forms.

Can you expound a bit on that, how did the evolution purported occur, what mechanism and how does that mechanism work? etc.

 

[Gary]

Can you expound a bit on that, how did the evolution purported occur, what mechanism and how does that mechanism work? etc.

Not really. I haven't wrapped my head around this theory enough to know all the little details on how it's supposed to work. I just know it doesn't. There's nothing in the fossil record to support it's plausibility.

 

[Rick W]

If a Muslim who has been refuting your belief in Christianity asked for details of the concepts of Islam, knowing you don't agree with it, would you attempt to give him what he wanted?

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Not really. I haven't wrapped my head around this theory enough to know all the little details on how it's supposed to work. I just know it doesn't. There's nothing in the fossil record to support it's plausibility.

That's a fair answer, there is much you haven't thought about a Theory that you don't hold to and therefore can't comment at length.

With regards to the Fossil Record, what is it in particular that you struggle with? Do you accept the dating methods used? If not, why. Do you believe Trilobites, Dinosaurs and Humans existed at the same time?

 

[Doulos Iesou]

If a Muslim who has been refuting your belief in Christianity asked for details of the concepts of Islam, knowing you don't agree with it, would you attempt to give him what he wanted?

If I was having a discussion with a Muslim, and he asked me to explain Islam to him as accurately as I could whilst knowing I disagree with it, then I would absolutely agree to demonstrate what I understand. He knows I don't believe it, yet now he has deeper respect for me and will want to hear what I have to say since I had honestly attempted to give a fair representation of what he believes.

This would cause the person to think a little more since this person knows what they believe really well and yet denies it, and it would also open them up to a proper understanding of Christianity which they may not have heard before.

It's when we close our minds off to being able to understand other people's perspective when we are then unable to relate to others and have fruitful discussions about matters where there isn't agreement. Politics is a good example of this in that neither side almost ever does a good job at representing the opposing view, and then use that misrepresentation to manipulate others to their viewpoint.