How?

[for_his_glory]

Amen!!! And again I say Amen!

Those whom He predestined are the one's that will come to faith in His Son. All those who would/will/came to believe are predestined by the very promises of God from one end of the Scriptures to the other... to be SAVED!! Yes, those who God has predestined will be saved!!! God has predestined that everyone who believes in His Son will be saved. It's the entire foundation of John 3:16

God did not predestine John or Sam or Mary or Sue. He did not predestine you by name. But because you have believed in God's one and only Son, then you have become a part of those who have always been predestined to receive God's mercy and grace. Those who would one day believe in the testimony and sacrifice of His servant. Those people were predestined from the moment God's plan for His Son's death was established.

When was that?

God bless,
Ted

God predestined the plan for man's salvation through Christ before the foundation of the world,

1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
1Pe 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

 

[Josef]

That is a very interesting thought; my answer might lie in free will. God has free will; but He chooses not to lie or be tempted by Sin. His children were also given free will; and it is the choices we make to either be more like Our Father or not. Hence, some of the Scriptures to guide us into His Light.

Hey All,
I thought about that Enlightenedtruth.
Does God have Free will?
There are actually several things that God cannot do.
1. He cannot die. (Deut 32:39-40; Ps. 90:2; 102:27)
2. God cannot lie (Heb. 6:18).
3. God cannot stop being God (Mal. 3:6)
4. God cannot sin, as he cannot be tempted by evil (Jas 1:13).
5. God cannot learn anything new, as he is all-knowing (Psa. 139:1-4; 1 John 3:20) and thus neither can he forget anything.
6. God cannot be fooled (Num 32:23).
7. God cannot sin, as he cannot be tempted by evil (Jas 1:13).

I do, or have the capacity to do, All these things.
So how can I have the capacity to do what God does not have the capacity to do?

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[Free]

Hey All,
I thought about that Enlightenedtruth.
Does God have Free will?
There are actually several things that God cannot do.
1. He cannot die. (Deut 32:39-40; Ps. 90:2; 102:27)
2. God cannot lie (Heb. 6:18).
3. God cannot stop being God (Mal. 3:6)
4. God cannot sin, as he cannot be tempted by evil (Jas 1:13).
5. God cannot learn anything new, as he is all-knowing (Psa. 139:1-4; 1 John 3:20) and thus neither can he forget anything.
6. God cannot be fooled (Num 32:23).
7. God cannot sin, as he cannot be tempted by evil (Jas 1:13).

I do, or have the capacity to do, All these things.
So how can I have the capacity to do what God does not have the capacity to do?

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

Because God cannot do that which is contradictory to his nature. God cannot sin because he is perfectly holy. We can sin because we are not; we have a fallen nature and are imperfect.

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

Hey All,
I thought about that Enlightenedtruth.
Does God have Free will?
There are actually several things that God cannot do.
1. He cannot die. (Deut 32:39-40; Ps. 90:2; 102:27)
2. God cannot lie (Heb. 6:18).
3. God cannot stop being God (Mal. 3:6)
4. God cannot sin, as he cannot be tempted by evil (Jas 1:13).
5. God cannot learn anything new, as he is all-knowing (Psa. 139:1-4; 1 John 3:20) and thus neither can he forget anything.
6. God cannot be fooled (Num 32:23).
7. God cannot sin, as he cannot be tempted by evil (Jas 1:13).

I do, or have the capacity to do, All these things.
So how can I have the capacity to do what God does not have the capacity to do?

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

That is interesting, but to say "God cannot do" is reaching; as the Creator of all things, God can do whatever he pleases.

 

[Josef]

Hi Josef

Because what He seeks; what He will ultimately cull from the harvest of the earth, is a people who will love and enjoy His presence one with another for eternity by their free will choice. But it is that same desire of God that we have the choice to love Him, that also gives us the choice not to. That's sin. God didn't create us to go that way. But He did create us to make that choice.

Just as He gave the law unto Israel and told them to choose now this day whom you will follow. He is saying the same thing to us, speaking to us through His Son. God didn't create this realm of existence just making another variety of animal that would always sit up for food like my cat. He is going to one day close out this existence that we now live in. That Peter describes as the days of His patience.

God is working out a great plan for all those who will believe Him and trust Him. Just as God's word tells us that He created the angelic realm and is one day going to cast all of the wicked angels into the pit, He will also at that time clean up the earth and all those who followed after them.

He created it all. Raised up a people to record His testimony to us and provide the way of righteousness. Now He's waiting. Who will hear His call? Who will answer His cry?

God bless,
Ted

Hey All,
Ted, God created it all, including man with a free will, and a capacity for exercising that free will against Him. I agree with what you wrote.

But God does not have a free will. God cannot sin and cannot be tempted with sin. God does not have the ability to sin.

How can God create you and I with an ability that he does not possess?

How can God create us beyond His limits?

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[Free]

How can God create us beyond His limits?

That's backwards. He is infinitely beyond us. We aren't even close to His limits; that's the problem.

 

[Hopeful 2]

What do you mean by "JUST God"?

Gen 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. (ESV)

"Us" and "our" refer only to God, as verse 27 indicates. We are created in God's image only.

Where then, was the Word ?

 

[WIP]

Hey All,
I have been thinking about this for awhile. I would like to hear how you solve it.

God cannot lie. He cannot even be tempted to sin. That is a Biblical fact.

Hebrews 6:17-18 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

So, how can God, who cannot lie, or be tempted to sin, create beings capable of doing what He cannot?


Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

Are you sure God "cannot be tempted" is the correct assumption or should it be "will not be tempted?" Unlike us, He never gave in to temptation.

13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him.
14 And John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?”
15 But Jesus answered and said to him, “Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed Him.
16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him.
17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”

4:1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.
Matthew 3:13-4:1 NKJV

14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,
15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham.
17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.
Hebrews 2:14-18 NKJV

14 Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.
Hebrews 4:14-15 NKJV

 

[Free]

Where then, was the Word ?

It's self-explanatory--from "us" and "our" when God is speaking to "his own" when the action is done. There is plurality within the unity. John 1:1 tells us the Word was with God and was also God in nature. Again, plurality within the unity.

 

[miamited]

Hey All,
Ted, God created it all, including man with a free will, and a capacity for exercising that free will against Him. I agree with what you wrote.

But God does not have a free will. God cannot sin and cannot be tempted with sin. God does not have the ability to sin.

How can God create you and I with an ability that he does not possess?

How can God create us beyond His limits?

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

Hi Josef

All I know about God is what He has revealed to me in His word. Whether God's free will is what somehow keeps him from being able to sin is quite beyond my ability to figure out from the testimony that He's given us as to 'who' He is. I know that He claims of Himself that He cannot sin and I'm good with that. Why He cannot sin, He doesn't really expound on beyond telling us that He can't. I'm down with that.

If I were inclined to sit back and ruminate on the matter and come up with some reasons that I might think help explain why God cannot sin beyond what God has told us about His inability to sin, we can do that. Knowing first, that it is all supposition not necessarily based on the truth of God.

Personally, by definition of sin, it is doing something that is against God's desire or will for us. How or why would God want to do something that is against His desire or will? God cannot break His own law. Unlike weak men who think they can break God's law for some perceived benefit. What could God benefit from who creates everything. Who can benefit God?

How can God create us beyond His limits?

I don't find that a being that does have free will, but you don't understand how that might mean that because of that He can't sin. As operating 'beyond His limits'. I've always believed that God can do the impossible. Do you think it's impossible for God to be who He says He is and yet create you as you are? I my understanding God doesn't have any limits. God says He can't sin. You know the sin that Satan tempted Eve with was to be like God. To know what God knows.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Josef]

God is "limited" by His nature. He can no more tell an untruth than a bachelor can be married, or a circle can have right angles. But this doesn't make God lesser than the Man who can lie, right? Lying is not an additional ability the liar possesses but simply the effect of the absence of Truth. Where Truth may be absent in the liar, it can't ever be absent in God. It seems to me, then, that the liar does not have a capability that God does not but merely bears a deficiency not present in God.

Hey All,
Tenchi I am not attempting to make God lesser than He is, or man greater. He is greater man is lesser. I can use your term and the question still remains:

Why do you and I possess a deficiency that is not in God.
How can God create us with something beyond his nature?

It a fair question as far as I can see.
I am not asking because I doubt God.
We are created in His image.
The ability/deficiency to sin is beyond His image.
I was created with the capability of exercising this deficiency, of which God does not.
God cannot sin.
How did God create me with this ungodly characteristic?

Thank you for your post. Through it I am beginning to form an answer. Your post gets me a little closer.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[Josef]

It didn't simply pop up. God created man in his image, which, I would argue, included free will--Adam and Eve being the only humans to have anything close to resembling what we call freewill. As such, there was no deficiency initially. They used their choice to disobey God, causing the fall of mankind and marring the image of God in which they were made.

Hey All,
Free, I agree that we were created in God's image. Within that created image, we were given the capacity/deficiency, whatever synonym you choose, that which God does not possess.

God is not able, nor does He have the deficiency, to sin.
How, then, can God give me an ability or a deficiency, to sin?

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[Fastfredy0]

It didn't simply pop up. God created man in his image, which, I would argue, included free will

for_his_glory said:

It's all about the freewill choices we make as God did not create us like robots, but to experience the choices we have that lay before us.

O.K. ... I'll bite. Everyone knows what a persons will is: it one's desire/want to do X or Y. What is your definition of FREE in the term FREE WILL. (aside: most people either won't answer the question or give an obtuse answer like "it's the ability to choose with no explanation of what/who determines said ability".)


Aside: The “free will” side inserts that extra layer of choice before the wanting. Somehow you're choosing what to want. You're not acting according to your greatest desire in a particular situation. Your will if free from what you want. Your wants are just there, sort of on the table and you're choosing which desire to act upon. This is a circular infinite regress; a logical problem; they are basically saying you chose what you chose. But you don’t choose your choices. You don’t transcend your own existence. Your choices are determined. You just make choices as time unfolds. The “free will” side completely obliterates reality when they try to make your choice transcendent; when they try to put this idea that you're choosing what to choose.

 

[for_his_glory]

for_his_glory said:

O.K. ... I'll bite. Everyone knows what a persons will is: it one's desire/want to do X or Y. What is your definition of FREE in the term FREE WILL. (aside: most people either won't answer the question or give an obtuse answer like "it's the ability to choose with no explanation of what/who determines said ability".)


Aside: The “free will” side inserts that extra layer of choice before the wanting. Somehow you're choosing what to want. You're not acting according to your greatest desire in a particular situation. Your will if free from what you want. Your wants are just there, sort of on the table and you're choosing which desire to act upon. This is a circular infinite regress; a logical problem; they are basically saying you chose what you chose. But you don’t choose your choices. You don’t transcend your own existence. Your choices are determined. You just make choices as time unfolds. The “free will” side completely obliterates reality when they try to make your choice transcendent; when they try to put this idea that you're choosing what to choose.

Free means what it means in this instance that we are free to make our own choices following either God's will or own own, but at times do not see the consequences, either good or bad, of the choices we make.

 

[Josef]

That is interesting, but to say "God cannot do" is reaching; as the Creator of all things, God can do whatever he pleases.

Hey All,
No he cannot.
He cannot violate his nature.
God cannot sin.
How am I reaching Enlightenedtruth?

Show me please; and I don't mean that sarcastically.

I am trying to formulate an answer. I need help on this one. (Hey, I really don't know it all.)

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[miamited]

Hi Josef

(Hey, I really don't know it all.)

Yes, I'm getting that understanding when you ask questions, but refuse counsel.

I think you've gone on enough over this shooting down everyone else's answer to your query. Now, the only way you could know that they are wrong, is that you know the correct answer. Tell us! How is it that God can make a creature that can do something that He can't?

As God queried Job. Who is this that darkens my counsel. Who stands before me to tell me what I can and cannot do. Tell me if you can, How did I make a creature that can do something that I can not do?

God bless,
Ted

 

[Free]

Hey All,
Free, I agree that we were created in God's image. Within that created image, we were given the capacity/deficiency, whatever synonym you choose, that which God does not possess.

God is not able, nor does He have the deficiency, to sin.
How, then, can God give me an ability or a deficiency, to sin?

Your question is answered in the fact that there is nothing about the nature of God and his inability to sin that precludes him from creating beings with the ability to sin and that will end up sinning. God is the creator and created beings who, it would seem, had the ability to choose to believe him or not believe him. Humans are subject to outside influences that can affect our choices. Humans can sin because by nature we are not perfect nor are we holy.

God cannot act in a way that violates his nature, or he would not be God. He is perfectly holy, or better, he is holiness, so he is unable to sin. He is perfect, so he cannot err. God also is omnipotent and omniscient, so there is nothing he needs and there is no possibility for outside influence on his will. Everything he does is perfect, right, good, holy, and just; it cannot be otherwise.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Free means what it means in this instance that we are free to make our own choices following either God's will or own own, but at times do not see the consequences, either good or bad, of the choices we make.

No one ever answers this question. Your WILL is FREE FROM WHAT? As usual, no one will define what they mean by FREE. Who gave you your will; your desires? There is only ONE First Cause of ALL THINGS and that is God (aside: Mormon's disagree). You CANNOT determine/create your will and thus it cannot be FREE. Your will was created just like your hand and your toes. It is circular logic to say one self-determines ones will/desires.
Your conception of FREE WILL is just a dodge. It's the fall back position for a weak theodicy.

God cannot know from us what we will choose from man before man existed. What we see, and what we are, must arise from itself or some other; it cannot from itself: if anything made itself, it had a power to make itself; it then had an active power before it had a being; it was something in regard of power, and was nothing in regard of existence at the same time. Suppose it had a power to produce itself, this power must be conferred upon it by another; and so the power of producing itself, was not from itself, but from another. Stephen Charnock - The existence and Attributes of God

God’s freedom is that attribute of God whereby he does whatever he pleases. This definition implies that nothing in all creation can hinder God from doing his will. God’s liberty of action (freedom) would be limited by the assumed powers and prerogatives of man’s “free will”.

Can God be pleased/glorified with anything which does not have its origin in Himself? If “free will” be an actuality, then God is not glorified by the salvation of individuals that He foreknew for He had no purpose for that individual’s decision. This contradicts Ephesians 1:11

Goodness - Luke 18:19 Jesus asked him. “No one is good except God alone. -goodness" in other things can only be derived from another; thus faith which is a goodness must come from God; because a creature being made of nothing, cannot be good, or essentially good, but by participation from another.

Romans 11:35 Who has first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?". Free Will posits we can give God faith which we are rewarded for.... this contradicts scripture


I could go on and on
.... at a minimum you should google Free Will and you can find find how others define FREE in the term FREE WILL. Example: free will is the supposed power or capacity of humans to make decisions or perform actions independently of any prior event or state of the universe. https://www.britannica.com/topic/free-will .... Now there at least is an attempt to define FREE as it is understood in the term FREE WILL. FREE is the ability to operate independent of GOD ... to be the CREATOR (GOD) of your will.

 

[Free]

for_his_glory said:

O.K. ... I'll bite. Everyone knows what a persons will is: it one's desire/want to do X or Y. What is your definition of FREE in the term FREE WILL. (aside: most people either won't answer the question or give an obtuse answer like "it's the ability to choose with no explanation of what/who determines said ability".)


Aside: The “free will” side inserts that extra layer of choice before the wanting. Somehow you're choosing what to want. You're not acting according to your greatest desire in a particular situation. Your will if free from what you want. Your wants are just there, sort of on the table and you're choosing which desire to act upon. This is a circular infinite regress; a logical problem; they are basically saying you chose what you chose. But you don’t choose your choices. You don’t transcend your own existence. Your choices are determined. You just make choices as time unfolds. The “free will” side completely obliterates reality when they try to make your choice transcendent; when they try to put this idea that you're choosing what to choose.

I like this definition:

“the capacity of a conscious mind to make decisions and choices without any external constraints or coercion.”

https://www.gotquestions.org/does-God-have-free-will.html

As such, God's will is not constrained and truly free but humans' will has always been constrained. Therefore, any idea of human "free" will must include the fact that it isn't truly free, but could be said to be free within constraints. Unbelievers are constrained by their sinful nature and the devil. Perhaps believers are more free, as we can choose to sin or not, but we still have significant influence exerted on us by the flesh, temptation, the devil, and the Holy Spirit.

Just rambling.

 

[for_his_glory]

No one ever answers this question. Your WILL is FREE FROM WHAT? As usual, no one will define what they mean by FREE. Who gave you your will; your desires? There is only ONE First Cause of ALL THINGS and that is God (aside: Mormon's disagree). You CANNOT determine/create your will and thus it cannot be FREE. Your will was created just like your hand and your toes. It is circular logic to say one self-determines ones will/desires.
Your conception of FREE WILL is just a dodge. It's the fall back position for a weak theodicy.

God cannot know from us what we will choose from man before man existed. What we see, and what we are, must arise from itself or some other; it cannot from itself: if anything made itself, it had a power to make itself; it then had an active power before it had a being; it was something in regard of power, and was nothing in regard of existence at the same time. Suppose it had a power to produce itself, this power must be conferred upon it by another; and so the power of producing itself, was not from itself, but from another. Stephen Charnock - The existence and Attributes of God

God’s freedom is that attribute of God whereby he does whatever he pleases. This definition implies that nothing in all creation can hinder God from doing his will. God’s liberty of action (freedom) would be limited by the assumed powers and prerogatives of man’s “free will”.

Can God be pleased/glorified with anything which does not have its origin in Himself? If “free will” be an actuality, then God is not glorified by the salvation of individuals that He foreknew for He had no purpose for that individual’s decision. This contradicts Ephesians 1:11

Goodness - Luke 18:19 Jesus asked him. “No one is good except God alone. -goodness" in other things can only be derived from another; thus faith which is a goodness must come from God; because a creature being made of nothing, cannot be good, or essentially good, but by participation from another.

Romans 11:35 Who has first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?". Free Will posits we can give God faith which we are rewarded for.... this contradicts scripture


I could go on and on
.... at a minimum you should google Free Will and you can find find how others define FREE in the term FREE WILL. Example: free will is the supposed power or capacity of humans to make decisions or perform actions independently of any prior event or state of the universe. https://www.britannica.com/topic/free-will .... Now there at least is an attempt to define FREE as it is understood in the term FREE WILL. FREE is the ability to operate independent of GOD ... to be the CREATOR (GOD) of your will.

Free is to make your own choices as the soul which makes up the conscious part of ones being is that of thought, action and emotion.