How?

[Fastfredy0]

I like this definition:

“the capacity of a conscious mind to make decisions and choices without any external constraints or coercion.”

https://www.gotquestions.org/does-God-have-free-will.html

Aside: I like GotQuestions .... o.k., that's is one of the definitions that I am aware of that goes with Free Will (not the most popular one, but close to the one I personally use .... My definition of Free Will being: we do what we desire most strongly at the time.

As such, God's will is not constrained and truly free but humans' will has always been constrained. Therefore, any idea of human "free" will must include the fact that it isn't truly free, but could be said to be free within constraints. Unbelievers are constrained by their sinful nature and the devil. Perhaps believers are more free, as we can choose to sin or not, but we still have significant influence exerted on us by the flesh, temptation, the devil, and the Holy Spirit.

I am in agreement with this.

But, to the crux of the matter. What/who is the source of our will? Who/what programmed/created our will to do X or Y in a given situation?

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

How am I reaching Enlightenedtruth?

I am trying to keep up; wow what a debate.

God is

God created all things; but He has only known the temptation of Sin through His Children. God has never had an equal. He does not covet wealth or power; for He can make as much wealth or power as He desires. He has never coveted the wife of another. He has never had to kill any intelligent being; and He has done a great deal in His effort to correct His Children so as to save as many of them as He can. All life is precious to Father; but the balance must be kept, and those who simply will not OBEY Him will meet their end.

God is above all these things because He simply has no equal; and He cannot take free will from His Children without destroying what makes each of us an individual. If God wanted a bunch of robots to tend the Gardens of Creation; He would simply make them.

No one ever answers this question. Your WILL is FREE FROM WHAT? As usual, no one will define what they mean by FREE

IMO is is simply about freedom of choice. As a man if you want to be a fireman; you make that choice and pursue that career. In terms of God; you have a choice to either obey Him or not. God will not force anyone to follow Him; but to disobey Him is to cease to exist once the Apocalypse begins.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Free is to make your own choices as the soul which makes up the conscious part of ones being is that of thought, action and emotion.

The ability "

to make your own choices

is the definition of a man's will. You are avoiding the adjective FREE that is in front to the word WILL. There is a reason theologians put the word FREE in front of the word WILL. I guess you don't know what FREE WILL is or don't want to answer the question. I'll drop my question as I find your answer non-responsive. Thx

 

[Free]

My definition of Free Will being: we do what we desire most strongly at the time.

Do we always, or do we sometimes do the right (or wrong) thing in spite of our desires? Or does that then mean that desire was stronger and can that always be the case?

But, to the crux of the matter. What/who is the source of our will? Who/what programmed/created our will to do X or Y in a given situation?

We are the source of our will and our will is programmed by nature and nurture—our genetics as well as every experience and every relationship. Of course, for the believer, God begins to reshape the will and its desires and conform them to his.

 

[Hopeful 2]

It's self-explanatory--from "us" and "our" when God is speaking to "his own" when the action is done. There is plurality within the unity. John 1:1 tells us the Word was with God and was also God in nature. Again, plurality within the unity.

Yep.
A plurality that was lost when the Word took on flesh.

 

[Free]

Yep.
A plurality that was lost when the Word took on flesh.

Not at all:

Jhn 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works.
Jhn 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves. (ESV)

And then there is the Holy Spirit as well. The Trinity is still the Trinity because it cannot ever stop being the Trinity; it is God’s nature and he cannot cease being who he is.

 

[Tenchi]

How can God create us with something beyond his nature?

The word "beyond" is a bit provocative since it is, I think, suggestive of a state-of-affairs in some way outside of God such that He is not the Ultimate Source or Ground of it.

In any case, I can think of many examples of things we humans can create that possess characteristics or capabilities we don't have. I can, for instance, make a carving knife that can carve wood easily. I can't carve wood unaided, however; I can't shave off wood from a log or branch with my bare hands. Is it remarkable or puzzling, though, that I can make a tool with a capability I don't possess? Not really, no. It also seems to me very unlikely that a person would describe the carving knife as "beyond me."

 

[Hopeful 2]

Not at all:

Th Word lost a lot, or better said...gave up a lot, when He took on flesh.

Jhn 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works.
Jhn 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves. (ESV)

I am glad that the truly repentant can say the same thing today.

And then there is the Holy Spirit as well. The Trinity is still the Trinity because it cannot ever stop being the Trinity; it is God’s nature and he cannot cease being who he is.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Hey All,
Ted, God created it all, including man with a free will, and a capacity for exercising that free will against Him. I agree with what you wrote.

But God does not have a free will. God cannot sin and cannot be tempted with sin. God does not have the ability to sin.

How can God create you and I with an ability that he does not possess?

How can God create us beyond His limits?

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

Do you believe that God write the second law of thermodynamics? If no, then tell me who write it, who set this rule; if yes, then you should know that you asked the wrong question(s). God did NOT make junk, everything he created was GOOD. It's not God's fault that this world is detached from God, left to its own devices, and therefore subject to the second of the thermodynamics.

The second law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of a closed system cannot decrease: “Every system, left to its own devices, always tends to move from order to disorder, its energy tending to be transformed into lower levels of availability (for work), ultimately becoming totally random and unavailable for work.” Author and scientist Isaac Asimov explained, “The universe is constantly getting more disorderly! . . . All we have to do is nothing, and everything deteriorates, collapses, breaks down, wears out, all by itself—and that is what the second law is all about.” In other words, over time, everything tends toward disorder, randomness, and disorganization.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Re: My definition of Free Will being: we do what we desire most strongly at the time.

Do we always, or do we sometimes do the right (or wrong) thing in spite of our desires? Or does that then mean that desire was stronger and can that always be the case?

Maybe I'll answer a question with a question. Can you give an example of a time you choose to do something that was not your strongest desire at the time? (Granted, one can have conflicted desires)
I think my statement is correct by definition. I can't think of any time I didn't do what I desired to do the strongest at the time. Technically, I can't prove it but it seems to follow IMO. Augustine agreed with me (not that that is proof ... I just liked his thought and it became mine)


Re: But, to the crux of the matter. What/who is the source of our will? Who/what programmed/created our will to do X or Y in a given situation?

We are the source of our will and our will is programmed by nature and nurture—our genetics as well as every experience and every relationship. Of course, for the believer, God begins to reshape the will and its desires and conform them to his.

Well, your statement makes it clear that we do not program/create our will.
I'll agree the our genetics and experience shape our will ... but who/what is the source (First Cause) of our genetics and who/what is the First Cause that determines the world we live in, our relationships, our IQ, whether we are born blind, etc? .... and are we in anyway "FREE" to determine this First Cause and if so, how?

 

[hawkman]

My definition of Free Will being: we do what we desire most strongly at the time.

My friend Fastfredy0 , do you have a wife ?

I would most strongly desire to watch football on TV for hours but my wife desired for me to wash a pile of dirty dishes instead . I had no desire to wash dishes but I did wash them , my chore anyway .

 

[for_his_glory]

The ability "

is the definition of a man's will. You are avoiding the adjective FREE that is in front to the word WILL. There is a reason theologians put the word FREE in front of the word WILL. I guess you don't know what FREE WILL is or don't want to answer the question. I'll drop my question as I find your answer non-responsive. Thx

I have explained what I think freewill means, but you reject that because it goes against what you think it means.

freewill - the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion

 

[Fastfredy0]

Re: My definition of Free Will being: we do what we desire most strongly at the time.

I would most strongly desire to watch football on TV for hours but my wife desired for me to wash a pile of dirty dishes instead . I had no desire to wash dishes but I did wash them , my chore anyway .

I grant that you had no desire to wash dishes, but your desire to please your wife was greater than your desire to watch football; thus, you did what you desired most at the time.
Aside: Now your desire may have been driven by your fear of your wife *giggle*

If you have a desire to do X and no desire to do Y then you will always do X assuming you are not forced to do Y. I grant that one cannot quantitatively measure desire. But why would you ever do something you don't want/desire to do most unless you are forced which is a different matter.

 

[Fastfredy0]

I have explained what I think freewill means, but you reject that because it goes against what you think it means. freewill - the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion

Your definition is obtuse so there is not sense conversing further. (you define "will" but not what/who your will is free from which is the crux of the definition of FREE WILL for centuries. It's not like your will can choose what your will desires and thus the need for the FREE part)
Aside: I even googled a definition for you to try to show the short coming of your understanding.