Hunting the Whore of Babylon

[fadinglight]

I'll post the information up as soon as possible. Like I said I have lots of information on this subject, just will take me a little bit of time to do so

 

[researcher]

So many times I see a verse posted and then some current event, etc., cited to support it, when there is Biblical support to refute such extra Biblical support.

Yeah, that is kind of funny to see. ;) Lol. ;) :D

Anyway, I don't see the USA in scripture at all!

I don't see it verbatim either. Unless the Anglo-Israel proponents are right.

I look at this map of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd world countries and wonder why it all turned out that way. Lol.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World

Look at who the "1st world" countries are (richest, most developed). Strange coincidences? :o :P

 

[RND]

So many times I see a verse posted and then some current event, etc., cited to support it, when there is Biblical support to refute such extra Biblical support.

Yeah, that is kind of funny to see. ;) Lol. ;) :D

[quote:1ugnmksj]Anyway, I don't see the USA in scripture at all!

I don't see it verbatim either. Unless the Anglo-Israel proponents are right.

I look at this map of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd world countries and wonder why it all turned out that way. Lol.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World

Look at who the "1st world" countries are (richest, most developed). Strange coincidences? :o :P[/quote:1ugnmksj]The United States is indeed in Bible prophecy, clearly made known for easy identification.

Revelation 13:11 says: "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon."

A "beast" in Bible prophecy is a temporal political power. Which comes out of a relatively unpopulated area - "the earth"which is unlike the first beast in Rev. 13 that comes out of a heavily populated area (waters equal multitudes of people-Rev.17:5). Two horns represent the power of this nation. Horns always represent power in prophecy. The "horns" that this nation hangs it's hat on are the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. Lastly "he spake as a dragon" relates to how this nation speaks as a government. A nation speaks through it's legislation. And only this nation can effect change in the world through it legislation unlike any other country.

Here's a few resources to make things abundantly clear:

http://www.benabraham.com/html/united_s ... ophec.html

http://www.amazingfacts.org/FreeStuff/B ... e-Prophecy.

[youtube:1ugnmksj]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlS8i5iYprs[/youtube:1ugnmksj]

[youtube:1ugnmksj]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY-A6kA4jXk[/youtube:1ugnmksj]

[youtube:1ugnmksj]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkmYK5Bq2lM&NR=1[/youtube:1ugnmksj]

 

[researcher]

Two horns represent the power of this nation. Horns always represent power in prophecy. The "horns" that this nation hangs it's hat on are the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.

I thought horns were symbolic for kings?

Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

Dan 8:20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.

Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

 

[samuel]

They do/are, except for the Horns of the Alter.

 

[Vic C.]

:biglol

Maybe we should start a poll on "what do horns represent?"

 

[RND]

Two horns represent the power of this nation. Horns always represent power in prophecy. The "horns" that this nation hangs it's hat on are the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.

I thought horns were symbolic for kings?

Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

Dan 8:20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.

Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

Question: Do kings exercise power?

Notice Rev. 17:12 very carefully: And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

 

[RND]

Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

Exercises power, hmmmm.

Luk 22:25 And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.

kurieuo = to rule:--have dominion over. Meaning one cannot "have dominion over" another unless they have what? That's right. Power.

 

[Elf]

Hunting the Whore is not too hard to do. All apostate religion is represented by the Whore. Determining who the Mother is, is another matter, and it is not the RCC, she is just another apostate child of the Whore.

Since "it is not to hard to do", then who is it?

 

[Elf]

Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

I believe, this verse is speaking about the Bishop of Rome, the Pope.

 

[RND]

Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

I believe, this verse is speaking about the Bishop of Rome, the Pope.

The first beast, from my understanding, is the Bishop of Rome. He is the beast that rose up out of the sea (a multitude of people). Who "having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns" ruled Europe from 538 to 1798. Certainly, he speaks blasphemy so it is only fitting he has "upon his heads the name of blasphemy."

 

[samuel]

Since "it is not to hard to do", then who is it?

Who is ?? - Israel.

 

[RND]

Since "it is not to hard to do", then who is it?

Who is ?? - Israel.

In what way has Israel, that is the modern, secular, nation-state (built on Roman law) of Israel related to the beast power of Revelation 13? How has Israel blasphemed God? What "times and laws" has Israel changed. How does Israel remotely fit into Revelation 13?

 

[samuel]

I think we are on two different pages. What has Rev-13 to do with the Harlot.

 

[RND]

I think we are on two different pages. What has Rev-13 to do with the Harlot.

Everything. The first beast of Revelation 13 is clearly a "church" that has been given it's power and authority from Satan himself. Before we can begin identifying the Woman that rides the beast in Revelation 17, we need to address the beast power(s) in Revelation 13.

You stated, "Determining who the Mother is, is another matter, and it is not the RCC, she is just another apostate child of the Whore." When asked who that woman was you said Israel. I asked how does Israel relate to Revelation 13.

Let me ask it this way.

How does Israel sit upon the beast? What is that beast in Rev, 17? What do the colors of scarlet and purple have to do with Israel? The decked (a thin veneer) gold? The Jewel's? How does Israel control a bunch of harlot daughters? Where is it ever said that Israel is the Mother of all churches as the RCC claims she is? How was Israel "drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus?" Does Israel use a "golden cup" as a symbol of her "having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication."

Just askin'.

 

[samuel]

Since you hold the persuasion you do there is really no need for you, and I to waste time discussing this. While I do not support the RCC, neither do I have any special bias toward them. I also am not anti-sematic, so I have no bias that way. I just see the facts differently than you.

 

[RND]

Since you hold the persuasion you do there is really no need for you, and I to waste time discussing this.

In other words, you have no answers to the questions I have asked. Yet I am not surprised. Trying to place the modern secular, nation-sate of Israel into Revelation 17 is like trying to cram a round peg into a square hole.

While I do not support the RCC, neither do I have any special bias toward them.

Neither do I. Pointing out that the RCC is the woman in Revelation 17 is not to suggest hatred for Roman Catholics. That would be akin to saying the man yelling "Fire! Fire!" at the top of his lungs to those inside a burning building hates those inside the building!

God Himself issues a similar warning. You are suggesting he hates Catholics are you?

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

I also am not anti-sematic, so I have no bias that way.

Is claiming that Israel isn't anywhere to be found in Revelation 17 somehow anti-semitic? Isn't your labeling other because of their opinion based on scripture really the true name calling?

I just see the facts differently than you.

Generally facts require evidence. I haven't seen any from you as yet.

 

[samuel]

And you want, I know some SDA people, I have found even passing the time of day with them non-productive.

 

[RND]

And you want, I know some SDA people, I have found even passing the time of day with them non-productive.

It might be your personality. Or, perhaps, attempting to make points with out any facts based on scripture.

Most likely however is that you most likely gauge productiveness on how much someone agrees with you! :yes

Honestly Samuel, as much as you pontificate on your web site about this, that and the other I figured for sure you have something to add.

 

[Elf]

Hunting the Whore is not too hard to do. All apostate religion is represented by the Whore. Determining who the Mother is, is another matter, and it is not the RCC, she is just another apostate child of the Whore.

You claim Israel is the whore? I disagree.

I believe not a particular Pope, but the Papacy is the antichrist of scripture, the Pope is the man of sin. The works described to the antichrist extend far beyond a certain period according to scripture.

Scripture teaches the antichrist will have his seat in the temple of God, that's where he sits. Who else but the RCC claims to be the true church, the mother of Christendom? Who else claims salvation is only in that church? They claim Peter was made primate over the christian church, and the vicar of Christ, and of course the whole line of his successors, the popes. Whom I might add their power had been achieved bu deception, false pretenses, forged documents, ect...ect... They claim to have supreme authority over the faith of men, they decide for men what they must believe, on the pain of eternal punishment and perdition. The plain fact of the matter is, the RCC is the most fearful power ever assumed by man.

They claim they can forgive sins, they have power over purgatory, these powers the pope and his followers claim to have the power to alleviate or remit. They have followers all over the world, and these claims have no parallel in the history of the world.

In just these few thing alone, if one cannot see it plainly thet the Pope and his church is the antichrist, there is so much more, but this should be enough. Any other system which has or may arise must be a smaller affair compared to the papacy.

All their false doctrines and false assumptions is all sustained by lying wonders. Think about the RCC's history , it is full of apparitions of the Virgin Mary and of other saints and angels. There whole system is a system of falsehood, supported be deceit.
They not only persecute, but they also justify persecutions, they have been drunk with the blood of the saints.

The popes claim the honor that is due only to God, they claim powers which belong only to God as theirs, they even authority the power of God, putting their own in place, exalting themselves above God. They exalt their authority above God by practically setting aside His word, and substituting it with their decrees and their teachings of the church. The masses live not by what the bible teaches but what the church teaches.

Of course, there are many protestants who believe along with the RCC, that there will come a time in our future when the Antichrist will be revealed, the RCC is blinded (they would have to be, the time is not ready yet) and those protestants either do not know scripture and believe fables and stories from their childhood and being new Christians and are convinced without study. Either way, it is a sad state.