hypostatic union

[Goinheix]

I have been reading a lot about the Hypostatic Union. One thing is to be concern; it seems that there is not any Bible text supporting such christology. It seems to be a human philosophy with no Scriptural support.

Perhaps somebody can share a verse (if it does exist) supporting the christology of the Hypostatic Union. Otherwise, we are in trouble.

 

[farouk]

'In Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.' (Colossians 2.9)

'The Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth' (John 1.14).

 

[Goinheix]

'In Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.' (Colossians 2.9)

'The Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth' (John 1.14).

If I am not mistaken, the HU teach that in Christ there is two natures, and that they co-exist not mixed but independently. There is not a point to signal the deity of Jesus, that is not contested. The trouble is about the double nature and the manner they are in Jesus.

 

[farouk]

Z:

I don't know quite what you understand, but it is widely held that the HU refers to two distinct natures, human and divine, in one glorious person.

 

[Goinheix]

Z:

I don't know quite what you understand, but it is widely held that the HU refers to two distinct natures, human and divine, in one glorious person.

That is what the HU refers to. Is it any biblical support for that?

 

[farouk]

Z:

I don't know quite what you understand, but it is widely held that the HU refers to two distinct natures, human and divine, in one glorious person.

That is what the HU refers to. Is it any biblical support for that?

He is God, He is man. See, for example, the verses, cited above.

Another verse is 1 Timothy 3.16.

 

[Goinheix]

Z:

I don't know quite what you understand, but it is widely held that the HU refers to two distinct natures, human and divine, in one glorious person.

That is what the HU refers to. Is it any biblical support for that?

He is God, He is man. See, for example, the verses, cited above.

Another verse is 1 Timothy 3.16.

I know the gnostics concider a divine nature superior to a human nature. Are you gnostic? Because in the entire Bible we dont found anything saying that God and men had a different nature.

But not only that. Spose I agree in the two natures (I dont) you stioll have to provide scriptural support for the independent co-existence of the suposed two natures.

 

[farouk]

Z:

I don't know quite what you understand, but it is widely held that the HU refers to two distinct natures, human and divine, in one glorious person.

That is what the HU refers to. Is it any biblical support for that?

He is God, He is man. See, for example, the verses, cited above.

Another verse is 1 Timothy 3.16.

I know the gnostics concider a divine nature superior to a human nature. Are you gnostic? Because in the entire Bible we dont found anything saying that God and men had a different nature.

But not only that. Spose I agree in the two natures (I dont) you stioll have to provide scriptural support for the independent co-existence of the suposed two natures.

Frankly I don't understand what your problem is. All verses quoted show that the Lord Jesus is both divine and human. Neither do I wish or intend to argue about the matter.

 

[Goinheix]

[
Frankly I don't understand what your problem is. All verses quoted show that the Lord Jesus is both divine and human. Neither do I wish or intend to argue about the matter.

Jesus is divine and human. That is ONE nature. The nature of God is spirit, and the nature of men is spirit. Jesus has ONE nature: divine and human.

 

[farouk]

[
Frankly I don't understand what your problem is. All verses quoted show that the Lord Jesus is both divine and human. Neither do I wish or intend to argue about the matter.

Jesus is divine and human. That is ONE nature. The nature of God is spirit, and the nature of men is spirit. Jesus has ONE nature: divine and human.

The way you put it would be to deny that He is both perfectly God and perfectly human, in other words, that He at all times is a partaker of these two natures. This is not a Biblically negotiable point.

 

[Goinheix]

[
Frankly I don't understand what your problem is. All verses quoted show that the Lord Jesus is both divine and human. Neither do I wish or intend to argue about the matter.

Jesus is divine and human. That is ONE nature. The nature of God is spirit, and the nature of men is spirit. Jesus has ONE nature: divine and human.

The way you put it would be to deny that He is both perfectly God and perfectly human, in other words, that He at all times is a partaker of these two natures. This is not a Biblically negotiable point.

Jesus was perfectly God and man. There is not any mystery on that. God and men has the same nature. That is one nature: divine and human. There is only one nature wich is spirit. This is not a Biblical negotiable point. Do you have any text saying that God and men has a different nature. That is a pagan concept wich became the gnostic fundament.

 

[farouk]

[
Frankly I don't understand what your problem is. All verses quoted show that the Lord Jesus is both divine and human. Neither do I wish or intend to argue about the matter.

Jesus is divine and human. That is ONE nature. The nature of God is spirit, and the nature of men is spirit. Jesus has ONE nature: divine and human.

The way you put it would be to deny that He is both perfectly God and perfectly human, in other words, that He at all times is a partaker of these two natures. This is not a Biblically negotiable point.

Jesus was perfectly God and man. There is not any mystery on that. God and men has the same nature. That is one nature: divine and human. There is only one nature wich is spirit. This is not a Biblical negotiable point. Do you have any text saying that God and men has a different nature. That is a pagan concept wich became the gnostic fundament.

What you seem to be saying is that God and man are naturally the same; that there is no real distinction.

 

[Goinheix]

What you seem to be saying is that God and man are naturally the same; that there is no real distinction.

The various verses quoted would indicate otherwise.

God is spirit. Do you agree?
Men are spirit. Do you agree?

I can distict between the Father, the Christ, and the Holy Spirit.
I also can distict between God and men.

But unless you prove it wrong; there is a common nature with God and men: spirit.

 

[farouk]

What you seem to be saying is that God and man are naturally the same; that there is no real distinction.

The various verses quoted would indicate otherwise.

God is spirit. Do you agree?
Men are spirit. Do you agree?

I can distict between the Father, the Christ, and the Holy Spirit.
I also can distict between God and men.

But unless you prove it wrong; there is a common nature with God and men: spirit.

Actually Genesis 1.2 and Ecclesiastes 12.7 show that the Spirit of God and the spirit of man are of different kinds. The Spirit of God does not depend upon the spirit of man; indeed, He preexisted it from eternity. The spirit of man, however, was created by God, and there will be a reckoning with the Creator after death.

 

[Goinheix]

Actually Genesis 1.2 and Ecclesiastes 12.7 show that the Spirit of God and the spirit of man are of different kinds. The Spirit of God does not depend upon the spirit of man; indeed, He preexisted it from eternity. The spirit of man, however, was created by God, and there will be a reckoning with the Creator after death.

Those are trivial diferences. I can point more differences between men and women. I can point deeper differences between the Father, the Christ and the Holy Spirit.
2Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
7and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

 

[farouk]

Actually Genesis 1.2 and Ecclesiastes 12.7 show that the Spirit of God and the spirit of man are of different kinds. The Spirit of God does not depend upon the spirit of man; indeed, He preexisted it from eternity. The spirit of man, however, was created by God, and there will be a reckoning with the Creator after death.

Those are trivial diferences. I can point more differences between men and women. I can point deeper differences between the Father, the Christ and the Holy Spirit.
2Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
7and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

With respect, the difference between the created and the Creator is not trivial.

Neither is the difference between sinners, and the sinless, incarnate and divine Savior, Who died at the Cross to save sinners.

Our discussion is not leading anywhere.

 

[Goinheix]

Actually Genesis 1.2 and Ecclesiastes 12.7 show that the Spirit of God and the spirit of man are of different kinds. The Spirit of God does not depend upon the spirit of man; indeed, He preexisted it from eternity. The spirit of man, however, was created by God, and there will be a reckoning with the Creator after death.

Those are trivial diferences. I can point more differences between men and women. I can point deeper differences between the Father, the Christ and the Holy Spirit.
2Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
7and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

With respect, the difference between the created and the Creator is not trivial.

Neither is the difference between sinners, and the sinless, incarnate and divine Savior, Who died at the Cross to save sinners.

Our discussion is not leading anywhere.

Nobody is saying that men and God are identical or equal. I am saying that both are spirit. Both have the same nature: spirit.

Actually the discussion is not leading anywhere. We stand in that there is not a single scriptural support for the Hypostatic Union.

 

[Free]

Actually Genesis 1.2 and Ecclesiastes 12.7 show that the Spirit of God and the spirit of man are of different kinds. The Spirit of God does not depend upon the spirit of man; indeed, He preexisted it from eternity. The spirit of man, however, was created by God, and there will be a reckoning with the Creator after death.

Those are trivial diferences. I can point more differences between men and women. I can point deeper differences between the Father, the Christ and the Holy Spirit.

As farouk stated, those differences are hardly trivial. In fact, they are among the most significant differences there are. There are far more similarities between men and women than there are between humans and God. God is the Creator and man is a creature.

Php 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,
Php 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
Php 2:7 but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
Php 2:8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. (ESV)

Php 2:5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
Php 2:6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
Php 2:7 but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
Php 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death— even death on a cross! (NIV)

Jesus was God in nature and, without losing that nature, took on the nature of man. That is what is being spoken of in John 1:1-14, the Incarnation, and is a basic tenet of the Christian faith.

 

[farouk]

Actually Genesis 1.2 and Ecclesiastes 12.7 show that the Spirit of God and the spirit of man are of different kinds. The Spirit of God does not depend upon the spirit of man; indeed, He preexisted it from eternity. The spirit of man, however, was created by God, and there will be a reckoning with the Creator after death.

Those are trivial diferences. I can point more differences between men and women. I can point deeper differences between the Father, the Christ and the Holy Spirit.
2Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
7and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

With respect, the difference between the created and the Creator is not trivial.

Neither is the difference between sinners, and the sinless, incarnate and divine Savior, Who died at the Cross to save sinners.

Our discussion is not leading anywhere.

Nobody is saying that men and God are identical or equal. I am saying that both are spirit. Both have the same nature: spirit.

Actually the discussion is not leading anywhere. We stand in that there is not a single scriptural support for the Hypostatic Union.

Not correct. The various Scriptures already cited show the two natures.

And to say that it's supposedly a 'trivial' distinction between the Holy Spirit, Who is God the Creator and the spirit of a sinner, is very inaccurate. (As they say in Spanish: Sería como decir que no hay diferencia entre Bordaberry y Mujica.)(For Anglophone readers, a Uruguayan example of two, very, very different people.)

 

[Free]

We stand in that there is not a single scriptural support for the Hypostatic Union.

Jesus is the God-man, truly God and truly man. Whether or not the HU is correct doesn't matter. What does matter is that we acknowledge both the humanity and deity of Jesus.