hypostatic union

[Free]

Youn totally failed to provide a single verse in the entire Bible saying about two natures in Jesus. The Bible declares Jesus as God and as man; both being one nature: spirit.

So why don't you provide Scriptural evidence that Jesus is one nature.

 

[Free]

Falso. Andá.

'Who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His Person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the majesty on high.' (Hebrews 1.3)

The Man who died at the Cross never ceased to be God in human form, and a man is now in the glory in His rightful place at the right hand of His Father, to Whom He is the only begotten Son.

More respect. No "andá". If you do it again I will report you. More respect.

Jesus Christ was God and man all the time. God is spirit and man is spirit. Jesus who is God and man is spirit. Period. One nature: spirit.

The word "nature" has much more to do with God being just spirit or man being just spirit, which he is not.

 

[Goinheix]

You are talking about a terrorist that took guns in orther to knock donw a democratic goverment elected by the people.
It is better that you focus on the Bible. The HU is exactly what you are doing: human reasonings.
(see you tomorrow)

I think you agree with my point that there is indeed a difference. And I am saying that big, inherent differences should be acknowledged.

As General Goyo Alvarez (who, despite his reputation, saved and preserved the Uruguayan party system) said, there is always a difference between Peñarol and Nacional, and there is always a difference between Colorados and Nacionalistas; the difference is inherent.

And I am suggesting that the Bible says there is a difference between the spirit of created man, and the Spirit of God the Creator. The difference is inherent. Not the same difference as in the examples I gave. But the difference is vast and inherent.

And tomorrow evening I have to go out, amigo.

The Bible does not state ANY difference between spirits. Yours are human thots as all of the HU, mere human reasonings.

 

[Goinheix]

Well, it isn't necessarily wrong.

The HU is constructed to the pagan/gnostic concept of the divine being superior and totaly good while the material (including human) be inferior and totally bad.

Not only that. Even in the supose that there is actually two natures, divine and human, there is not any scriptural support for those suposed natures being in independent co-existence.

And even worst. The HU contradict the previous creeds of Nicene and Constantinople. Were those creeds wrong or is it that the HU is wrong?

No, the HU is not Gnostic. It does not state that the material is evil, nor is it implied. There are two natures in Christ, unified and indivisible. That is precisely why we can say that he is truly God and truly man. If we say the two mixed and became one nature, then we could not say that.

This is waht the HU says. I agree that this is what the HU says.
Now will be a good oportunity to show that the Bible is also saying that.

 

[Goinheix]

Youn totally failed to provide a single verse in the entire Bible saying about two natures in Jesus. The Bible declares Jesus as God and as man; both being one nature: spirit.

So why don't you provide Scriptural evidence that Jesus is one nature.

I will provide such evidence: Jesus in one nature.
Unfortunatly, before that we have to provide scriptural evidence that the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit have (all three) one same nature. I can not provide the demanded evidence if previously it is not demostrated that the Parental spirit, is the same as the Mesianic spirit and the Holy spirit. Can you demostrate that all 3 spirits is the same spirit???

 

[Goinheix]

Falso. Andá.

'Who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His Person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the majesty on high.' (Hebrews 1.3)

The Man who died at the Cross never ceased to be God in human form, and a man is now in the glory in His rightful place at the right hand of His Father, to Whom He is the only begotten Son.

More respect. No "andá". If you do it again I will report you. More respect.

Jesus Christ was God and man all the time. God is spirit and man is spirit. Jesus who is God and man is spirit. Period. One nature: spirit.

The word "nature" has much more to do with God being just spirit or man being just spirit, which he is not.

The word nature is a bad translation for hypostasis. We are talking of hypostasis union. Hypostasis is better translate as esence; what somethis is.
The hypostasis of God (I will get rear of "nature") is to be. God is. God is God. God is "I am". Gos is spirit.
Men are spirit (soul and body)

 

[Free]

Falso. Andá.

'Who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His Person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the majesty on high.' (Hebrews 1.3)

The Man who died at the Cross never ceased to be God in human form, and a man is now in the glory in His rightful place at the right hand of His Father, to Whom He is the only begotten Son.

More respect. No "andá". If you do it again I will report you. More respect.

Jesus Christ was God and man all the time. God is spirit and man is spirit. Jesus who is God and man is spirit. Period. One nature: spirit.

The word "nature" has much more to do with God being just spirit or man being just spirit, which he is not.

The word nature is a bad translation for hypostasis. We are talking of hypostasis union. Hypostasis is better translate as esence; what somethis is.
The hypostasis of God (I will get rear of "nature") is to be. God is. God is God. God is "I am". Gos is spirit.
Men are spirit (soul and body)

Definition of Nature:

1 a : the inherent character or basic constitution of a person or thing : essence
b : disposition, temperament

2 a : a creative and controlling force in the universe
b : an inner force or the sum of such forces in an individual

3 : a kind or class usually distinguished by fundamental or essential characteristics <documents of a confidential nature> <acts of a ceremonial nature>

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nature

Definitions 1a and 3 are relevant here. The first one shows that "nature" is in fact a good translation of hypostasis, not that that was at all what I was addressing.

The whole point of that was that I was addressing your comments that "God is spirit and man is spirit. Jesus who is God and man is spirit. Period. One nature: spirit."

However, both the first and the third definitions of "nature" show that God and men are cannot be of the same nature. It is simply false to say that God is spirit and man is spirit (which you have not even proved) and then conclude that they are of the same nature.

 

[Free]

Youn totally failed to provide a single verse in the entire Bible saying about two natures in Jesus. The Bible declares Jesus as God and as man; both being one nature: spirit.

So why don't you provide Scriptural evidence that Jesus is one nature.

I will provide such evidence: Jesus in one nature.
Unfortunatly, before that we have to provide scriptural evidence that the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit have (all three) one same nature. I can not provide the demanded evidence if previously it is not demostrated that the Parental spirit, is the same as the Mesianic spirit and the Holy spirit. Can you demostrate that all 3 spirits is the same spirit???

This has nothing to do with the Hypostatic Union. The Trinity is not in question here. You need to provide evidence that Jesus is one nature.

 

[Goinheix]

Youn totally failed to provide a single verse in the entire Bible saying about two natures in Jesus. The Bible declares Jesus as God and as man; both being one nature: spirit.

So why don't you provide Scriptural evidence that Jesus is one nature.

I will provide such evidence: Jesus in one nature.
Unfortunatly, before that we have to provide scriptural evidence that the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit have (all three) one same nature. I can not provide the demanded evidence if previously it is not demostrated that the Parental spirit, is the same as the Mesianic spirit and the Holy spirit. Can you demostrate that all 3 spirits is the same spirit???

This has nothing to do with the Hypostatic Union. The Trinity is not in question here. You need to provide evidence that Jesus is one nature.

The Bible mention one spirit. It does not mention a second spirit.
If you can demostrate that there is not 3, 4 or many spirits, I will demostrate that there is not 2.

 

[Free]

Well, it isn't necessarily wrong.

The HU is constructed to the pagan/gnostic concept of the divine being superior and totaly good while the material (including human) be inferior and totally bad.

Not only that. Even in the supose that there is actually two natures, divine and human, there is not any scriptural support for those suposed natures being in independent co-existence.

And even worst. The HU contradict the previous creeds of Nicene and Constantinople. Were those creeds wrong or is it that the HU is wrong?

No, the HU is not Gnostic. It does not state that the material is evil, nor is it implied. There are two natures in Christ, unified and indivisible. That is precisely why we can say that he is truly God and truly man. If we say the two mixed and became one nature, then we could not say that.

This is waht the HU says. I agree that this is what the HU says.
Now will be a good oportunity to show that the Bible is also saying that.

The NT clearly shows that Jesus is both God and man, something you affirm. It never teaches that these two natures join to form one nature. If one says that they joined to form one nature, then they cannot say that he is both truly God and truly man.

 

[Free]

The Bible mention one spirit. It does not mention a second spirit.
If you can demostrate that there is not 3, 4 or many spirits, I will demostrate that there is not 2.

No. You made the claim that Jesus is one nature and now you need to provide evidence.

Actually, before you even do that, you need to provide evidence that man and God have the same nature. Without providing evidence for both of those claims, you have no argument against the HU.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

One nature: spirit. To be God and to be man is to be spirit. One nature.

Then how could God the Son in Spirit form be "made in the likeness of men" without losing His identify as God? Your hypothesis denies the deity of Christ in human form. Yet He remained fully God. Did He not?

 

[Goinheix]

The NT clearly shows that Jesus is both God and man, something you affirm. It never teaches that these two natures join to form one nature. If one says that they joined to form one nature, then they cannot say that he is both truly God and truly man.

The NT clearly shows that Jesus is both, God and man. But the NT never implies that being God is one nature and that being man is another nature.
There is some christologies declaring that the two natures are united, while other christologies declare the two natures distincted.
My position is totally diferent. What I say is that God and men has the same nature. You, me and the Father have the same nature.

Any how... you brothers are not understanding what i am saying. Lets see if we go in another path. Lets supose that men and God has two different natures. We are stack in the two natures being or not being a same one. Lets skip that point. Lets suppose ther is a divine nature different from a human nature. The new question will be:
There is any scriptural base to support the concept of the two suposed natures co-existing in the HU manner?

 

[Goinheix]

The Bible mention one spirit. It does not mention a second spirit.
If you can demostrate that there is not 3, 4 or many spirits, I will demostrate that there is not 2.

No. You made the claim that Jesus is one nature and now you need to provide evidence.

Actually, before you even do that, you need to provide evidence that man and God have the same nature. Without providing evidence for both of those claims, you have no argument against the HU.

God is spirit and you know it. Men are spirit and you know it. An exégesis of all verses where the spirit is mentioned does not reveal any different between one spirit and any other spirit.
What you askme is not procedent. Can you prove that Jesus was crucified only one time? Can you prove that Christ resurrected only one time? The Bible mention one crucifixion and one resurrection... enough. There is not any reason to suspect of a second crucifixion or resurrection.

One thing is getting clear, that the Hu haas no better argument that saying that others are wrong. All along the history, the HU was defended solely on criticicing other christologies.

 

[farouk]

I don't want to prolong this, but, again, the One Who was born at Bethlehen and died at the Cross for sinners is truly God in his nature and also truly man in his nature, sin apart; these natures are distinct in one glorious Person: Philippians 2.6-9; Hebrews 1.3 : clearly these passages show that He did not cease to have a divine nature when he took on a human nature.

 

[Goinheix]

One nature: spirit. To be God and to be man is to be spirit. One nature.

Then how could God the Son in Spirit form be "made in the likeness of men" without losing His identify as God? Your hypothesis denies the deity of Christ in human form. Yet He remained fully God. Did He not?

Stop acusing me of heresies I dont declare.
I repeat: the HU is based on the fact that other christologies are wrong.
Lets suppose that I am totally wrong. Take my christology and trow it to the garbagge.
Now is your time to show the two natures of Jesus. We know he is God and he is man. Now demostrate that being God is one nature and being man is a different nature. Can you?

 

[Goinheix]

I don't want to prolong this, but, again, the One Who was born at Bethlehen and died at the Cross for sinners is truly God in his nature and also truly man in his nature, sin apart; these natures are distinct in one glorious Person: Philippians 2.7-9; Hebrews 1.3 : clearly these passages show that He did not cease to have a divine nature when he took on a human nature.

Those pasages are not mentioning two natures. Simple like that. No biblical evidence at all.

 

[farouk]

I don't want to prolong this, but, again, the One Who was born at Bethlehen and died at the Cross for sinners is truly God in his nature and also truly man in his nature, sin apart; these natures are distinct in one glorious Person: Philippians 2.7-9; Hebrews 1.3 : clearly these passages show that He did not cease to have a divine nature when he took on a human nature.

Those pasages are not mentioning two natures. Simple like that. No biblical evidence at all.

Try from verse 5 of Philippians 2. Philippians 2.5-9

Also, the Hebrews passage, Hebrews 1.3, shows that the Lord Jesus is the brightness of God's glory, while also the One Who as a man, purged our sins, says the writer to the Hebrews.

 

[Free]

The NT clearly shows that Jesus is both God and man, something you affirm. It never teaches that these two natures join to form one nature. If one says that they joined to form one nature, then they cannot say that he is both truly God and truly man.

The NT clearly shows that Jesus is both, God and man. But the NT never implies that being God is one nature and that being man is another nature.
There is some christologies declaring that the two natures are united, while other christologies declare the two natures distincted.
My position is totally diferent. What I say is that God and men has the same nature. You, me and the Father have the same nature.

Throughout the entire Bible it is seen that God has one nature and we have another. You have yet to show otherwise.

Any how... you brothers are not understanding what i am saying. Lets see if we go in another path. Lets supose that men and God has two different natures. We are stack in the two natures being or not being a same one. Lets skip that point. Lets suppose ther is a divine nature different from a human nature. The new question will be:
There is any scriptural base to support the concept of the two suposed natures co-existing in the HU manner?

Yes! As I have stated already the very fact that the NT has verses that clearly show he is human and verses which clearly show he is God, point to the HU. In order to be able to be able to say he is truly God and truly man, they cannot be one nature.

 

[Goinheix]

I don't want to prolong this, but, again, the One Who was born at Bethlehen and died at the Cross for sinners is truly God in his nature and also truly man in his nature, sin apart; these natures are distinct in one glorious Person: Philippians 2.7-9; Hebrews 1.3 : clearly these passages show that He did not cease to have a divine nature when he took on a human nature.

Those pasages are not mentioning two natures. Simple like that. No biblical evidence at all.

Try from verse 5 of Philippians 2. Philippians 2.5-9

Also, the Hebrews passage, Hebrews 1.3, shows that the Lord Jesus is the brightness of God's glory, while also the One Who as a man, purged our sins, says the writer to the Hebrews.

We aal know that Jesus was God and man. This is not disputed at all. Where do you read that being God is one nature and being man is a different nature. That is a pagan concept that was enfasised by the gnostics. In all the Bible we dont found any text declaring men of a different nature of God.