hypostatic union

[Goinheix]

We stand in that there is not a single scriptural support for the Hypostatic Union.

Jesus is the God-man, truly God and truly man. Whether or not the HU is correct doesn't matter. What does matter is that we acknowledge both the humanity and deity of Jesus.

I agree with you. All christian seminars and schools shall quit teaching the HU and only teach that Jesus is truly God and man. With 15 centuries of wrong teaching we had enough.

 

[Free]

We stand in that there is not a single scriptural support for the Hypostatic Union.

Jesus is the God-man, truly God and truly man. Whether or not the HU is correct doesn't matter. What does matter is that we acknowledge both the humanity and deity of Jesus.

I agree with you. All christian seminars and schools shall quit teaching the HU and only teach that Jesus is truly God and man. With 15 centuries of wrong teaching we had enough.

Well, it isn't necessarily wrong.

 

[reba]

Seems some one is working hard to put Jesus some place He don't belong.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

 

[Goinheix]

Well, it isn't necessarily wrong.

The HU is constructed to the pagan/gnostic concept of the divine being superior and totaly good while the material (including human) be inferior and totally bad.

Not only that. Even in the supose that there is actually two natures, divine and human, there is not any scriptural support for those suposed natures being in independent co-existence.

And even worst. The HU contradict the previous creeds of Nicene and Constantinople. Were those creeds wrong or is it that the HU is wrong?

 

[Goinheix]

Seems some one is working hard to put Jesus some place He don't belong.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

I dont know who are refering to... but thanks for your help. We have to put Christ where he belongs as God becoming flesh.

 

[farouk]

Seems some one is working hard to put Jesus some place He don't belong.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

I agree: the Biblical and historic understanding of the Lord Jesus being wholly God and wholly man in two distinct natures gloriously united in one Person, is not up for negotiation.

 

[Goinheix]

I agree: the Biblical and historic understanding of the Lord Jesus being wholly God and wholly man in two distinct natures gloriously united in one Person, is not up for negotiation.

I know you will not negotiate the HU. It doesnt mean that is correct.
The HU was fabricated in the Chalcedon Council. At that Council it was declared the HU and was declared that was ilegitimate to ponder or to analice the HU. The Chalcedon Creed declare the imposition of the HU without any chance of being stidied. Whio ever dare to think over the HU was excomulgated and loos the salvation. That not for contradicting the HU, only for puting thots to it.

That atitude lasted until today. The HU is a non negotiable doctrine that will not be proven right by mean of arguments or studyng.

 

[Goinheix]

◄ John 1:14 ►

New International Version (©2011)
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
New Living Translation (©2007)
So the Word became human and made his home among us. He was full of unfailing love and faithfulness. And we have seen his glory, the glory of the Father's one and only Son.
English Standard Version (©2001)
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
The Word became flesh and took up residence among us. We observed His glory, the glory as the One and Only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
International Standard Version (©2012)
The Word became flesh and lived among us. We gazed on his glory, the kind of glory that belongs to the Father's unique Son, who is full of grace and truth.
NET Bible (©2006)
Now the Word became flesh and took up residence among us. We saw his glory--the glory of the one and only, full of grace and truth, who came from the Father.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
And The Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of The Only Begotten of The Father, full of grace and truth.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
The Word became human and lived among us. We saw his glory. It was the glory that the Father shares with his only Son, a glory full of kindness and truth.
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
American King James Version
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelled among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
American Standard Version
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.
Douay-Rheims Bible
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Darby Bible Translation
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we have contemplated his glory, a glory as of an only-begotten with a father), full of grace and truth;
English Revised Version
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.
Webster's Bible Translation
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Weymouth New Testament
And the Word came in the flesh, and lived for a time in our midst, so that we saw His glory--the glory as of the Father's only Son, sent from His presence. He was full of grace and truth.
World English Bible
The Word became flesh, and lived among us. We saw his glory, such glory as of the one and only Son of the Father, full of grace and truth.Young's Literal Translation
And the Word became flesh, and did tabernacle among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of an only begotten of a father, full of grace and truth.

John is saying "became" as the water became wine.
John is not describing the addition of a second nature as the HU does.
John is tune with Paul: Christ being in the form of God became in the form of man.
Paul and John talk of a form becoming another form.
Christ abandoned one form and took another form, but without modifying his nature.

 

[farouk]

I agree: the Biblical and historic understanding of the Lord Jesus being wholly God and wholly man in two distinct natures gloriously united in one Person, is not up for negotiation.

I know you will not negotiate the HU. It doesnt mean that is correct.
The HU was fabricated in the Chalcedon Council. At that Council it was declared the HU and was declared that was ilegitimate to ponder or to analice the HU. The Chalcedon Creed declare the imposition of the HU without any chance of being stidied. Whio ever dare to think over the HU was excomulgated and loos the salvation. That not for contradicting the HU, only for puting thots to it.

That atitude lasted until today. The HU is a non negotiable doctrine that will not be proven right by mean of arguments or studyng.

...but the Bible speaks of the two natures in the Person of Christ. You apparently want to deny it. Well, I can't help you.

(Sería como tratar de decir que vive todavía Aparicio Méndez; siempre se podría negar la verdad.) (For Anglophone readers, a statement about a well-known Uruguayan that is demonstrably false, however much one could try to assert it.)

 

[farouk]

◄ John 1:14 ►

New International Version (©2011)
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
New Living Translation (©2007)
So the Word became human and made his home among us. He was full of unfailing love and faithfulness. And we have seen his glory, the glory of the Father's one and only Son.
English Standard Version (©2001)
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
The Word became flesh and took up residence among us. We observed His glory, the glory as the One and Only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
International Standard Version (©2012)
The Word became flesh and lived among us. We gazed on his glory, the kind of glory that belongs to the Father's unique Son, who is full of grace and truth.
NET Bible (©2006)
Now the Word became flesh and took up residence among us. We saw his glory--the glory of the one and only, full of grace and truth, who came from the Father.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
And The Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of The Only Begotten of The Father, full of grace and truth.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
The Word became human and lived among us. We saw his glory. It was the glory that the Father shares with his only Son, a glory full of kindness and truth.
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
American King James Version
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelled among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
American Standard Version
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.
Douay-Rheims Bible
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Darby Bible Translation
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we have contemplated his glory, a glory as of an only-begotten with a father), full of grace and truth;
English Revised Version
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.
Webster's Bible Translation
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Weymouth New Testament
And the Word came in the flesh, and lived for a time in our midst, so that we saw His glory--the glory as of the Father's only Son, sent from His presence. He was full of grace and truth.
World English Bible
The Word became flesh, and lived among us. We saw his glory, such glory as of the one and only Son of the Father, full of grace and truth.Young's Literal Translation
And the Word became flesh, and did tabernacle among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of an only begotten of a father, full of grace and truth.

John is saying "became" as the water became wine.
John is not describing the addition of a second nature as the HU does.
John is tune with Paul: Christ being in the form of God became in the form of man.
Paul and John talk of a form becoming another form.
Christ abandoned one form and took another form, but without modifying his nature.

Falso. Andá.

'Who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His Person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the majesty on high.' (Hebrews 1.3)

The Man who died at the Cross never ceased to be God in human form, and a man is now in the glory in His rightful place at the right hand of His Father, to Whom He is the only begotten Son.

 

[Goinheix]

I agree: the Biblical and historic understanding of the Lord Jesus being wholly God and wholly man in two distinct natures gloriously united in one Person, is not up for negotiation.

I know you will not negotiate the HU. It doesnt mean that is correct.
The HU was fabricated in the Chalcedon Council. At that Council it was declared the HU and was declared that was ilegitimate to ponder or to analice the HU. The Chalcedon Creed declare the imposition of the HU without any chance of being stidied. Whio ever dare to think over the HU was excomulgated and loos the salvation. That not for contradicting the HU, only for puting thots to it.

That atitude lasted until today. The HU is a non negotiable doctrine that will not be proven right by mean of arguments or studyng.

...but the Bible speaks of the two natures in the Person of Christ. You apparently want to deny it. Well, I can't help you.

(Sería como tratar de decir que vive todavía Aparicio Méndez; siempre se podría negar la verdad.) (For Anglophone readers, a statement about a well-known Uruguayan that is demonstrably false, however much one could try to assert it.)

Youn totally failed to provide a single verse in the entire Bible saying about two natures in Jesus. The Bible declares Jesus as God and as man; both being one nature: spirit.

 

[farouk]

I agree: the Biblical and historic understanding of the Lord Jesus being wholly God and wholly man in two distinct natures gloriously united in one Person, is not up for negotiation.

I know you will not negotiate the HU. It doesnt mean that is correct.
The HU was fabricated in the Chalcedon Council. At that Council it was declared the HU and was declared that was ilegitimate to ponder or to analice the HU. The Chalcedon Creed declare the imposition of the HU without any chance of being stidied. Whio ever dare to think over the HU was excomulgated and loos the salvation. That not for contradicting the HU, only for puting thots to it.

That atitude lasted until today. The HU is a non negotiable doctrine that will not be proven right by mean of arguments or studyng.

...but the Bible speaks of the two natures in the Person of Christ. You apparently want to deny it. Well, I can't help you.

(Sería como tratar de decir que vive todavía Aparicio Méndez; siempre se podría negar la verdad.) (For Anglophone readers, a statement about a well-known Uruguayan that is demonstrably false, however much one could try to assert it.)

Youn totally failed to provide a single verse in the entire Bible saying about two natures in Jesus. The Bible declares Jesus as God and as man; both being one nature: spirit.

John 1.14; Colossians 2.9; Hebrews 1.3, Philippians 2.7-9 etc.

 

[Goinheix]

Falso. Andá.

'Who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His Person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the majesty on high.' (Hebrews 1.3)

The Man who died at the Cross never ceased to be God in human form, and a man is now in the glory in His rightful place at the right hand of His Father, to Whom He is the only begotten Son.

More respect. No "andá". If you do it again I will report you. More respect.

Jesus Christ was God and man all the time. God is spirit and man is spirit. Jesus who is God and man is spirit. Period. One nature: spirit.

 

[Goinheix]

John 1.14; Colossians 2.9; Hebrews 1.3, Philippians 2.7-9 etc.

One nature: spirit. To be God and to be man is to be spirit. One nature.

 

[farouk]

One nature: spirit. To be God and to be man is to be spirit. One nature.

But this is eisegesis, not exegesis.

 

[Goinheix]

One nature: spirit. To be God and to be man is to be spirit. One nature.

But this is eisegesis, not exegesis.

Exegesis
God is spirit
men are spirit
Simple exegesis

Now you go ahead and make the exegesis of two natures.

 

[farouk]

Bordaberry (?)
..................

Mujica (?)

There is in fact a difference between these two men. (It is important to get the captions right, not wrong.)

Just as there is a difference between the spirit of man and the Spirit of God. (Not the same sort of difference, but the difference is vast, not “trivial’.)

(Picture sources of Uruguayan personalities: wikimedia commons )

 

[Goinheix]

You are talking about a terrorist that took guns in orther to knock donw a democratic goverment elected by the people.
It is better that you focus on the Bible. The HU is exactly what you are doing: human reasonings.
(see you tomorrow)

 

[farouk]

You are talking about a terrorist that took guns in orther to knock donw a democratic goverment elected by the people.
It is better that you focus on the Bible. The HU is exactly what you are doing: human reasonings.
(see you tomorrow)

I think you agree with my point that there is indeed a difference. And I am saying that big, inherent differences should be acknowledged.

As General Goyo Alvarez (who, despite his reputation, saved and preserved the Uruguayan party system) said, there is always a difference between Peñarol and Nacional, and there is always a difference between Colorados and Nacionalistas; the difference is inherent.

And I am suggesting that the Bible says there is a difference between the spirit of created man, and the Spirit of God the Creator. The difference is inherent. Not the same difference as in the examples I gave. But the difference is vast and inherent.

And tomorrow evening I have to go out, amigo.

 

[Free]

Well, it isn't necessarily wrong.

The HU is constructed to the pagan/gnostic concept of the divine being superior and totaly good while the material (including human) be inferior and totally bad.

Not only that. Even in the supose that there is actually two natures, divine and human, there is not any scriptural support for those suposed natures being in independent co-existence.

And even worst. The HU contradict the previous creeds of Nicene and Constantinople. Were those creeds wrong or is it that the HU is wrong?

No, the HU is not Gnostic. It does not state that the material is evil, nor is it implied. There are two natures in Christ, unified and indivisible. That is precisely why we can say that he is truly God and truly man. If we say the two mixed and became one nature, then we could not say that.