I am a Catholic, why should I consider becoming a Christian?

[mondar]

Yet you are blurring distinctions. You say that salvation is by grace, but I think you know well that protestants believe is "sola gratia."

I never said they didn't. There is a difference in the view of what grace is however and the doctrine of irresistable grace is a false one.
[quote:5bead]
Sigh, Thess, your all over the place. Do you bring this up so that you can change the focus of our discussion? The doctrines of sola gratia and irrestable grace are two distinct doctrines. I believe we have a thread on irrestable grace. Look in "free will."

I never said it was merely by grace. In him we live and move and have our being. The very fact that we walk and breathe is by natural grace and the sun shines on the good and the bad and so all recieve his grace. Nature cries out to the glory of God and all recieve his grace. Any who come to faith and any who do good and persevere in faith is SOLEY by his grace.

The parents take their kid in faith to Church to be baptized. The child is not saved by the actions of the parent. It is the Holy Spirit recieved by the child that cleanses it of sin. Not what the parents have done. Your hyperworks theology is a distortion that can be used with regard to statements of faith and sinners prayers saving people too. I won't go there.

Thank you for not bringing up the sinners prayer... : More misunderstandings might occur when I agree that there can be a difference between the sinners prayer and faith. It is meaningless to me how many times a person has walked the sawdust trail.

Concerning your statement that salvation is "SOLEY by his grace..." I would firmly agree. As a matter of fact, that is the protestant doctrine of sola gratia. There is no work we can do to bring Gods grace. That includes walking the saw dust trail, baptism, or any other action on the part of man, or the part of mans parents. If baptism is added to the requirements of Christs death, then salvation is not by grace alone (sola gratia).

You are right that our definitions are somewhat different. But the difference is not as you say. We see justification as forgiveness of all temporal and eternal punishment and effects of sin. Christ justified us and so all aspects of justification need his grace. Sanctification only deals with the temporal effects of sin on the soul.

Anyone who has had a little math and set theory can understand when we say that sanctification is a subset of justification. The two cannot be separated as mondar wants to do because Christ's death on the cross applies to the total package of sin and justifies not only the sin but cleanses our souls of the effects of sin (which is sanctification, a subset of justification). Mondar can fool people who don't understand Catholic theology but he can't fool me or anyone who has done a little study. He presents an air of knowing about Catholic theology but only knows enough to be dangerous and to confuse those who don't know themselves. He has shown time and time again he does not know what he is talking about regarding Catholic teaching and distorts with malice.

[/quote:5bead]

Wow, I am really the devil incarnate, LOL. Well, is it OK if this malicious person who is trying to "fool" the unwitting person who does not know Roman dogma continues to talk about justification?

I always find Roman answers to be curious. There must always be included these personal attacks against the other person. I suspose it is all in the service of mother Rome, and so therefore can be justified (excuse pun).

In any case, one of the differences in the definations of justification is with regard to this. Is justification an act of God, or is it a process. Thess, the problem is that there is not really one single defination for the term justify. The term must be interpreted in its context. It would take a lot of space to demonstrate this. I have to go do a few chores for now. Be back later.

 

[Solo]

Yes, gracd is the power of the Holy Spirit, working in and through us. Grace is God working in the world to bring about men's salvation. Grace is the only thing by which we exist and by which we are saved.

Terrible definition isn't it. :-? Attributing all to God and all.

Yes it is a terrible definition, and the most terrible of all is attributing your definition to God Almighty!

 

[thessalonian]

Is justification an act of God, or is it a process.

False dichotomy alert.

 

[thessalonian]

Yes it is a terrible definition, and the most terrible of all is attributing your definition to God Almighty!

there you have it folks. Attributing all that is good in us and in the world to God is wicked according to Mr. Solo.

 

[Solo]

there you have it folks. Attributing all that is good in us and in the world to God is wicked according to Mr. Solo.

There is no good in anyone unless they are born again according to Jesus.

PS. Also, you misspelled grace above. It is with an "e" not a "d"! :wink:
Don't let "Mistakes" rule your life. It is way too short! :D

 

[thessalonian]

There is no good in anyone unless they are born again according to Jesus.

PS. Also, you misspelled grace above. It is with an "e" not a "d"! :wink:
Don't let "Mistakes" rule your life. It is way too short! :D

I'm born again dude. It's a typo. You don't ever make any? :-?

Solo the infallible makes not mistakes I guess.

 

[ThreeInOne]

I grew up in the catholic system and thought i was saved.That was untill i was born again at the age of 38,then realised how wrong i had been.I couldnt get my children out of catholic scripture classes at school quick enough.They now attend presbetyrian scripture classes,and myself and my family attend a presbetyrian church.Though i dont call myself a presbetyrian,i am follower of christ.

:smt038 A Christian is a Christian and the denomination is irrevelant. I don't like to "tag" the denomination of my church onto my Christianity, either. I'm just a child of God's. Plain and simple.

 

[ThreeInOne]

As a practicing Catholic who became Born Again by praying to Christ and asking Him to become my Savior I believe that the question of this thread is in error because all Catholics are Christians but not all Catholics are Born Again Christians. There is a difference betweene being a Christian and being a Born Again Christian. A Christian is someone who was Baptized in the Roman Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church or Mainline Protestant Churches but has not received Christ as their Savior and thus has not become a Born Again Christian. A Born Again Christian is someone who is Baptized and has received Christ as their Savior and thus has become Born Again and is a member of the Roman Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Mainline Protestant Churches or Fundamentalist Protestant Churches. :morning:

Robert, you are even more confused than I originally thought.
There is only ONE type of Christian and you MUST be BORN AGAIN in order to BE a Christian. You can't be a Christian without accepting Jesus as your Savior.
Also, baptism does not save. You should know this. Yes, after a person becomes a believer s/he should get baptized but that is NOT what saves the person. That's Catholic doctrine.

Example: If a person is baptized into the Catholic church, that's where it ends. They're baptized "Catholic." This does not make a person a Christian, even though they lead you to believe this is what happens.

For you, being a born again believer, is that what you believe? Do you believe baptism saves?

Didn't I (among others) tell you you won't grow in that church? You are obviously missing a lot of the basic teachings of the bible and Christianity. I know, I know, you just want entrance into Heaven and you don't care about the rest. :smt075

By the way, you claim to be a "practicing Catholic" yet you disregard many of her teachings so how in the world can you be "practicing?" Basically, you are a Catholic fraud. And I don't know what to make of your supposed conversion. :smt102

 

[sisterchristian]

Robert, you are even more confused than I originally thought.
There is only ONE type of Christian and you MUST be BORN AGAIN in order to BE a Christian. You can't be a Christian without accepting Jesus as your Savior.
Also, baptism does not save. You should know this. Yes, after a person becomes a believer s/he should get baptized but that is NOT what saves the person. That's Catholic doctrine.

Example: If a person is baptized into the Catholic church, that's where it ends. They're baptized "Catholic." This does not make a person a Christian, even though they lead you to believe this is what happens.

For you, being a born again believer, is that what you believe? Do you believe baptism saves?

Didn't I (among others) tell you you won't grow in that church? You are obviously missing a lot of the basic teachings of the bible and Christianity. I know, I know, you just want entrance into Heaven and you don't care about the rest. :smt075

By the way, you claim to be a "practicing Catholic" yet you disregard many of her teachings so how in the world can you be "practicing?" Basically, you are a Catholic fraud. And I don't know what to make of your supposed conversion. :smt102

I am so sorry. but I just can't help it...... :smt005 :smt043

 

[ThreeInOne]

I know sis but actually, this guy makes me cry deep inside. :

 

[sisterchristian]

I know sis but actually, this guy makes me cry deep inside. :

True, but the way you put it was funny, it was true but it was kinda funny :D

 

[ThreeInOne]

True, but the way you put it was funny, it was true but it was kinda funny :D

I know. I hope he doesn't see it as funny or cruel but that he will search for answers and start to live in truth.

 

[sisterchristian]

I know. I hope he doesn't see it as funny or cruel but that he will search for answers and start to live in truth.

Yeah, there is nothing ever funny about seeing someone being deceived by satan!

 

[RobertMazar]

Robert, you are even more confused than I originally thought.
There is only ONE type of Christian and you MUST be BORN AGAIN in order to BE a Christian. You can't be a Christian without accepting Jesus as your Savior.
Also, baptism does not save. You should know this. Yes, after a person becomes a believer s/he should get baptized but that is NOT what saves the person. That's Catholic doctrine.

Example: If a person is baptized into the Catholic church, that's where it ends. They're baptized "Catholic." This does not make a person a Christian, even though they lead you to believe this is what happens.

For you, being a born again believer, is that what you believe? Do you believe baptism saves?

Didn't I (among others) tell you you won't grow in that church? You are obviously missing a lot of the basic teachings of the bible and Christianity. I know, I know, you just want entrance into Heaven and you don't care about the rest. :smt075

By the way, you claim to be a "practicing Catholic" yet you disregard many of her teachings so how in the world can you be "practicing?" Basically, you are a Catholic fraud. And I don't know what to make of your supposed conversion. :smt102

Of course I know that Baptism does not save. That is not the kind of Baptism that I believe in. I believe in the kind of Baptism(Infant and Adult) that is just a dedication of infants and adults to Christ. And I am going to continue to claim to be a practicing Catholic for the only reason that I attend Mass every weekend. Why do you doubt that I am really saved? I prayed to Christ and asked Him to become my Savior and thus I am saved. :smt021

 

[sisterchristian]

Of course I know that Baptism does not save. That is not the kind of Baptism that I believe in. I believe in the kind of Baptism(Infant and Adult) that is just a dedication of infants and adults to Christ. And I am going to continue to claim to be a practicing Catholic for the only reason that I attend Mass every weekend. Why do you doubt that I am really saved? I prayed to Christ and asked Him to become my Savior and thus I am saved. :smt021

Because why do you insist on going to a Catholic church, when you can be getting alot more out of a BIBLE teaching, BIBLE believing church?? It makes no sense! Kinda like somebody who was healed from having a broken leg, but continues to walk with a crutch! :smt102

 

[RobertMazar]

Because why do you insist on going to a Catholic church, when you can be getting alot more out of a BIBLE teaching, BIBLE believing church?? It makes no sense! Kinda like somebody who was healed from having a broken leg, but continues to walk with a crutch! :smt102

What difference does it make if I remain I remain in the RCC after having received Christ as my Savior? I will still gain entrance into Heaven irrespective if I do not leave the RCC because of having received Christ as my Savior. Church membership is totally superfluous to gaining entrance into Heaven. The only thing that is required for gaining entrance into Heaven is to receive Christ as ones Savior. :smt102

 

[thessalonian]

Because why do you insist on going to a Catholic church, when you can be getting alot more out of a BIBLE teaching, BIBLE believing church?? It makes no sense! Kinda like somebody who was healed from having a broken leg, but continues to walk with a crutch! :smt102

There in fact is more straight out of the bible in Catholic services than pretty much all of the protestant services i have been to. We do believe in the Bible.

 

[sisterchristian]

What difference does it make if I remain I remain in the RCC after having received Christ as my Savior? I will still gain entrance into Heaven irrespective if I do not leave the RCC because of having received Christ as my Savior. Church membership is totally superfluous to gaining entrance into Heaven. The only thing that is required for gaining entrance into Heaven is to receive Christ as ones Savior. :smt102

Well I feel really sorry for you Robert, how is it going to look when you stand before the Lord and he says to you "So Robert I hear you were only interested in squeezing your way into heavens gates! What did you do with my son Jesus, did you share the Gospel with anyone? Did you lead anyone to me? or did you just hide in a Catholc Church and not learn anything but false doctrine! :o

 

[sisterchristian]

Edited: Argumentive :wink:

 

[sisterchristian]

There in fact is more straight out of the bible in Catholic services than pretty much all of the protestant services i have been to.

Idon't think so brother!