I am starting to REALLY like the Catholics (OC plz read)

[Orthodoxy]

cj,

The delusion within the delusion.......... oh what a web Satan weaves.

Do you say these things to test my “Christ likeness and fruitsâ€Â. You are the fruit tester? It appears we have fruit detectors, fruit inspectors, and fruit testers on this board. Cast your pathetic fireballs some place else if you want to have a discussion with me.

Orthodoxy, you've simply given up one form of apostasy for another.

What I had before was what you have today. Your opine is meaningless when spoken out of ignorance. Tell me why my belief in Jesus Christ is apostate? You have accused me of being Satan and apostate, now back up your childish rhetoric with facts. Make your list of what I must believe about Jesus Christ in your opinion to be saved then let us compare before you call me Satan incarnate or apostate.

After reading your last post I was moved to go back and read some of your previous posts and in doing so I saw something that I hadn't before. Lord Jesus,..... forgive me, sometimes we become more narrow than we should be and thus miss important things.

What are you blabbering about? Most of my posts are trying to get coy and evasive Protestants to answer simple questions on the Christian faith. I can’t get past the surface to find anything deep. I don’t know who you think Jesus is or what you think his gospel is because I am to busy dodging fireballs. Maybe this is your motive… keep me on the defensive so you can avoid direct questions.

Orthodoxy, you want to know Christ. Amen, its the only way to grow in God, the only growth of God.

And this is the Lord's mercy, for none come to Him of their own accord. It is Jesus who has turned you towards Himself.

Yet there is more, as what the Lord desires is our cooperation from the inward parts of our being, as this is where His work begins.

Now what are you talking about? You said you read my posts. Did you see the one where I said I accepted Jesus Christ 36 years ago? The only way to grow is to have “parents†that teach you and nurture you. The protestant faith produces orphans and widows not many Christians with maturity. You for example are a perfect representation of a spoiled self raise “Christian†brat. Casting your fireballs willy nilly around like you were Jesus Christ Himself. You have no authority what so ever to cast spit balls much less fireballs. You pal are a little child that needs a good spiritual spanking.

There is a terrible lack of Christ in the corridors of Christianity. And it has been this way for centuries. In fact, the slide away from Christ began back in the first century, even from the time when Paul was still alive.

Speak for your own version of Christianity, son. You have been alive for centuries? Where? In the good ol USA? Christianity is an eastern religion not “made in Americaâ€Â. Orthodoxy is alive and well. Orthodoxy was around long before your mommy put a bottle in your mouth and wiped your butt, certainly long before you met your phantom jesus. You maybe lacking but the Orthodox Church is not. Judge yourself not the Orthodox Church. Take the board out of your own eye then maybe you can remove the orthodox splinter. I submit you know nothing about the Orthodox Christian faith. Can you recall any history prior to Luther’s rebellion against the Roman Catholic Church in 1517 ad? I am certain your knowledge of the Orthodox is base solely on your hate for anything Roman Catholic. The veil of God is working perfectly to keep the light of Glory seen in the Orthodox Church from your eyes.

This is what I believe you sense in your being, a lack, a dryness,.... and this is a good thing, for we must become desperate before we become truly dependant. And Christ can only be received by one who is utterly dependant on Him.

I was dry and lacked any water when I was a protestant like you. I was searching for God in a land of dry shallow wells with no life. You are correct Protestantism is a lost cause. No family, no community, no fellowship, no guidance, cut off from the body, on the outside looking in. Lonely? Yes, lone ranger Christianity of the protestant faith is lonely desolation. I never knew whom I was worshipping with if and when I ever entered a “churchâ€Â. I couyld trust no one in the protestant faith to be truthful about what they “believed†exactly. One thing is for certain in the Orthodox faith…. I know what people like James believes. I do not know James personally but I know the fundamental Christian faith resides in him. I can say I will die for his Orthodox faith and I believe he would die for mine. I know what James believes and I have never met the man. I know the man in Japan that worships in the Orthodox Church, even though he may speak in a totally different language, believes and confesses the one faith as I do and worships the same One God. When I was in the protestant faith I could not go from one non demonational church to another and know for certain what anyone truly believed and when I questioned this problem most times I am told “it doesn’t matter as long as you “know†Jesusâ€Â. When I would confront the silly doctrines floating around concerning the nature of God in the protestant faith I was told “my fruit is not goodâ€Â. Bad fruit doesn’t question the nature of God or His confession of faith. Rodneykingism reigns. There was no agreement in the protestant faith that I could tell when I was investigating a community to fellowship in faith and unity. I call it “Burgerkingism†Each individual reads the bible and like burgerking has jesus their way and God is obligated to accept each man’s worship based on the fact they say the name Jesus Christ and in a mysterious way “believeâ€Â. Can you define “believe†in the heterodox faith? I found belief in protestant Christianity to be a moving target, ever changing. Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever, no change nor shadow of change about Him. His body is the same and undivided.

Are you utterly dependant on Christ?

Yes. Utterly and totally dependant on the “fullness of Jesus Christâ€Â, The Church, according to the Scripture. You do believe the Scripture correct? Ephesians 1:22-23 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the CHURCH, Which is his BODY, the FULNESS of HIM that filleth all in all. You are free to be dependant on parts of the fullness if you wish.

Now you say what is the Church and how can I identify it on the earth. And the orthodox say one way is this:

Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 1 Corinthians 1:10.

Like I have said… I don’t need to ask James what he believes because we are this above verse without saying a word. James and I basically speak the same thing, there is no division between us, we have the same mind and same judgement through the Church. I know James will say things based on the Scripture and the understandings of the Church or he will find out before he speaks. Of course the Holy Spirit fills James with an ability to express the understandings of this one mind better than I yet I agree with him and the Church.

Tell me, when you "left" the Protestant environment were you in a completely defeated state? Were you empty, alone, filled thoughts of "What now,.... where do I go from here?"

Yes. The protestant faith, when I began searching for “a church†to lead and guide my new family because it was no longer me alone with my Jesus and my bible, turned out to be cold, uninviting, shallow and misguided. Yes, I was rather depressed to find out no persons in the protestant faith seemed to know truly who God was nor how to worship Him. It appeared to me after years of my own version of Christianity that others only had their own versions also. Burgerkingism. The “you have your Jesus and I have my Jesus†syndrome. I came to believe that God does not have to accept my worship in what ever manner I place before Him, rather He is the one that dictates His form of worship and if I want to “partake†of this divine worship I need to do it His way, the age old, time tested way, in His Church. I have kids to teach the ways of the Lord. I am responsible for their souls. I wanted to make sure my children were getting the truth. Thus began my search for “the Churchâ€Â. Before my journey began I prayed this prayer:

WARNING WARNING!!!! WARNING WILL ROBINSON! WARNING WILL ROBINSON!

DO NOT READ THIS PRAYER LEST GOD BURN YOU WITH HIS HOLY FIRE!

Father God through your Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, I ask you to show me your organic body on the Earth. Lead me to your community that is your Body. Lord I cannot seem to find anyone that can agree on anything about the Christian faith. Please lead me and guide me into your will. Consume me with your Holy fire. Purify me. Cleanse me. Teach me. In Jesus name Amen.

Well not long after this prayer God place certain men before me that opened the door to the Orthodox Church. 4 years ago after ago 5 years of intense study for I was a protestant, proud of my biblical knowledge and prowess, my family (wife roman catholic, Son and Daughter) converted and were baptized into the historical, time tested, authentic Christian Faith. I had studied every protestant Christian sect over 36 years, the demon heresies of Arianism and sabellianism, mormons, JW’s and Pentacostals. The Methodist, Lutheran, Roman Catholic, Baptist, and nearly every main stream protestant group, you name it I investigated it. I thought I knew it all. Except for history, something the Protestants leave out, ignore or distort with a roman twist. History is completely ignored in the protestant faith and if the protest has any grasp on historical events, they do not go past 1000 ad. They flippantly will say history of Jesus Christ’s Church is meaningless to the Christian walk. It is quite sad. Orthodoxy is virtually unknown because the protestants have been told we are “part of the Roman Church†“a left lung†a “cut off memberâ€Â, and a “sister churchâ€Â…. all deceptions to keep the protestants from investigating the historical Christian faith found in the Holy Orthodox Church. The great delusion. A great duping of the protestant faith. Why you say? Because nearly all these main stream protestant groups to a letter confess and proclaim the Roman Catholic Creed of 1054 ad. Even as a protestant I knew dual procession of the Holy Spirit was an out right heresy but blew it off as not important because everyone said it did not matter.

You know, even Paul made the mistake of going back into that which he had left, causing God to take drastic measures to counter Paul's actions.

You mean when he went to Jerusalem in Acts 15 out of obedience to Christ’s command to “tell it to the Church†when disputes arise in the Church? One must be clear on this…. many walk away from the faith, many walked away from Jesus Christ in John 6, many walk away from the Christian faith but it does not change the Church. The Church remains the same and has not changed in 2000 years. People come and go but the Church is eternal. When a dispute arises what did Jesus tell the Church to do when the “loser†of the debate refuses to listen to the Church? Matthew 18. Who pray tell is refusing to listen to the Church in our little debate?

On reading your posts I wonder just how "emptied" you were at the point of leaving the Protestant environment, as you seemed to have had some strong concepts/opinions regarding what believers need. But I was not there with you so I don't know. Yet, if you did have concepts and opinions about such things these are what may have lead you into the reliogion of the Orthodox institution,.... and not the Spirit.

I was at this point which if you had really read my posts you would have seen I was ready to give up on the Christian religion altogether, I can see why agnostics and atheist are born …. the chaos and disunity of the protestant Christian faith is a complete and utter joke, laughable. The fact is I was not spirit filled as a protestant. I was ready to become an agnostic geologist, ready to say “I don’t knowâ€Â. Jesus existed in time this much is sure. He is God but if He did not leave a physical and tangible Church on the earth that a person can have a real personal relationship with then there is no Christianity, no Jesus Christ. What a cross roads! Is that all Christianity is about a “invisible church†that no one could identify except to say “we believe†and that makes “us†the Church no matter what anyone believes! Oh if only the Yankees would let anyone be a Yankee in this manner! A turning point for me was this: as a protestant we confessed the Roman Creed of 1054 ad at communion one time and the pastor, a good protestant Christian you all would have liked, says “you don’t need to say the “one baptism for the remission of sins†part of the Creed. When I queried him about this he stated that part is neither scriptural nor needed in any way for salvation. Acts 2 I said to him. My point is that he single handedly changed the confession of the Christian faith with no authority. It was like he removed part of the US Constitution. As we all know no one man can change the Constitution of the USA! Why do we treat the confession of the Christian faith with such malice yet the man made document of the USA is revered almost as a holy document? I have a problem with flippantly changing doctrines to fit our own understanding. When I read the Roman Church changed the document of the Church in 1054 ad I knew my whole existence, as a protestant, was a fraud because the protestant faith stems from the Roman Church. (Thankfully I never accepted the roman addition, I did as an ignorant protestant confess this addition to the statement of faith, but I was told over and over it did not mean anything and we are one Christian happy family. God will sort all our beliefs out! Fact is not much truth is told in the protestant world about the Orthodox faith. Most is fear of anything Roman Catholic that is twisted to make the Orthodox look like weak step children. The Orthodox if anything are maligned worse that any Roman Catholics just for the fact protestants mistake us for Romans!

See, the Spirit gives life, and there is no life to be found in religion, only more death.

Which though can be a good thing in a negative way, for one day you will come to see that for all the forms, traditions, doctrines, and human history, still there is little or no Christ. And you will find yourself as dry and thirsty as you were before.


Tell me Orthodoxy, where does the bible tell us that Christ is found today?

According to the Scripture the fullness of Jesus Christ is found in the Church. Jesus Christ is the Holy Orthodox Church. When you see orthodoxy in its fullness you see the face of Jesus Christ. Can I be more clear on this point? Jesus Christ and His Church are one and the same, no division. This is the mystery Paul spoke of concerning the Church. Ephesians 5:23-25,32, The great mystery is the complete submission, unity and inseparable oneness of Jesus Christ and His Church. The head cannot be amputated off from the body at the whim of each individual that claims the name Jesus Christ. When Jesus said “I will send the Comforter, the Spirit of truth, He will lead YOU into all truth†The YOU in this verse is a PLURAL. Jesus Christ is speaking to 12 men, His disiples, a group of men is lead by the Holy Spirit. These men represented the Church at that time. The Holy Spirit leads the Church. Each individual to be lead by this spirit must be a “partaker†of the divine nature found in this spirit lead group, the Church.

And this Christ, what is found in Him?

People that confess with one voice the same Christian faith with one mind, one heart, and one judgment. No division.

Lets address some of your concerns below,....
Orthodoxy wrote:
Very Good. However, I submit the heterodox world cannot be humble because they will not "obey and submit to those in authority over them".


True,.... but why?

Are you saying its because of the environment they are in? Is it the teaching they are receiving?

No, because the heterodox are full of pride and commit the sin of Adam by leaning on their own understanding. Evil according to the Bible.

And the disciples, were they not in the presence of God on the earth? Shouldn't this have been the best environment possible? Yet, did they not fail to "obey/submit" to Him who had declared God's authority to them?

Yes and the Church is His physical presents on the Earth today. The Holy Orthodox Church lives the life of Christ. His daily movements are seen in the Holy Traditions of the Church. Traditions are His life. Traditions are how we live His Life. Why must you see the Church Jesus Christ is eternally building as a failure? All the apostles went apostate and failed Jesus Christ? What are you smoking?

What were they missing?

Your wisdom it appears. It seems the Apostles were missing you. The question is what are you missing. Silver and gold the Church has none. Why have you sold your inheritance for a bowl of soup?

Tell you what, why not allow the bible to give us the answer.

The parts blocked out or the parts you read? They were missing leprosy?

LEPROSY,...... the outward issue/manifestation of of disobedience/rebellion.

Matthew 8 : 2, "And behold, a leper, coming near, worshipped Him, saying, Lord, if You are willing, You can cleanse me."

The first class of people saved by the kingly Savior to be the people of the kingdom is represented by a leper. According to the examples in the Scriptures, leprosy results from rebellion and disobedience. Miriam became leprous because of her rebellion against God's deputy authority (Num. 12:1-10). Naaman's leprosy was cleansed because of his obedience (2 Kings 5:1, 9-14).

All fallen human beings have become leprous in the eyes of God because of their rebellion. The kingly Savior came to save men from their rebellion and to cleanse them from their leprosy that they might become His kingdom people.

Who is in rebellion? I told you “I believe†why are you treating me as a non Christian? Tell me what about Jesus Christ I don’t believe that you condemn me for? Do you know what the word “protestant meansâ€Â? Many protestants will place before me that Jesus was a protester of the roman empire to justify their fight against the Church. Who do you suggest I obey and submit? You? A book? You want me to obey and submit to a book? Where in the Scripture am I commanded to obey and submit to a book? Tell me where Jesus designated a book as my final authority? Give me one scripture where Jesus Christ is heard saying “Father I send this book out in the same manner you sent me†or “tell it to “the Bible†or “I chose this bible and ordained itâ€Â. I cannot find one verse where Jesus gives a book all the authority of His Father, even the forgiveness of sins. Help me with that would ya.

Hebrews 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

You obey who? Ask a protestant who he is submitted to and he will say in consternation “Jesus Christ is the only one I submit to, I submit to no man!†Yet the heterodox ignore this verse that plainly tells a Christian to obey and submit to “those that rule over youâ€Â. “Those†is a word that means people as well as indicating more than one!

Ephesians 5:21, Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

If you read your bible it says there were appointed and ordained men in every city as overseers of the Church. The laying on of hands and prayer as recorded in Acts and other scripture passed this on succession of the faith to future generations to this day. The Apostles appointed bishops and elders to each and every city. Does it not stand to reason each “believer†in each city must have an overseer to be called a Christian? If not then why appoint men to these positions? Why doesn’t the protestant church operate under the guidelines set forth by Jesus Christ? Jesus picked, ordained and sent out, just as the Father sent Him, men to be His authority on the Earth, not a book and not you.

Who is your overseer? My bishop is Bishop Tihkon, Diocese of the West. Every Christian has a bishop. Your bishop is?

You judge my obedience to Jesus Christ? Who appointed you judge? Judge not lest ye be judged with the same judgment. Fact is Jesus commands the Church to pray thus the Church prays. Jesus commands the Church to fast thus the Church fasts. Jesus commanded the Church to give alms thus the Church gives alms. Jesus Christ commanded the Church visit the poor, feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, visit those in prison, etc… the Church does all these things and more. I am obedient to the fullness of Jesus Christ, the Holy Orthodox Church, fullness of Him that filleth all in all.

Orthodoxy

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Here’s a trivial quiz. Tell somebody next to you something, then, have him tell somebody… do that for over 2000 years and lets see if it comes back 100 %.
When you found the Orthodox faith, it was a journey for you. Something inside you told you that you had landed where God wanted you. I’d call that faith. Now I ask; where is the danger in that? When you read scripture, do you trust the commentary next to it or do you listen for the spirit to open your eyes and show you the truth?
It’s almost ironic. 2 Peter was written when? Around 60 ish AD?? That’s around 20 or 30 years after Christ had died. Now, notice the context of Chapter 2. My, how quickly the wolves move in.
For the sake of what I have not said, I did not say that the Orthodox Church is a wolf or is full of false teachers. That being said, there are wolves and false teachers in the Orthodox Church. But then again, there are wolves and false teachers in all denominations so don’t feel like I’m attacking the Orthodox.

As the Apostles went forth throughout the Mediterranean region, and beyond, they appointed Elders (Bishops) and Deacons, whose charge it was to maintain order and the integrity of the gospel delivered to them. Contrary to Protestant thinking, the churches established by Thomas in India did not have the Pauline letters- nor likely did the Ethiopians. Paul's ministry was in Italy and Asia Minor, with connections to Jerusalem, of course. The first generation of believers did not have John's gospel, as it wasn't written until most of the converts from Pentecost were long dead. Likewise the epistle of James and to the Hebrews- doubtful these- or the gospel of Matthew- found circulation in the regions outside Jerusalem for at least a couple generations.

My point being is that you cannot put a percentage on the Message, unless you want to say that subsequent generations had 200% of the gospel. The integrity of the message was maintained in the oral tradition AND the ecumenical, combined worship of the Church. Those churches who had apostolic succession came together over time, particularly to ward off heresy/variation from the received tradition. So when the Ebionites (later examples of Judaizers) troubled the Church, and Marcion took a position on the other extreme (similar to the Paulist heretics of our day), the Church as one spoke against their destructive doctrines. They did so using the NT scriptures at their disposal, and the OT, combined with an appeal to the oral tradition that they had received. Sibsequent generations called upon the testimony of those who rejected Marcionism, the gnosticism, and so forth, in combination with the holy scriptures, as variations on old heresies reappeared.
(This is, I believe, similar to how Constitutional Law is handled- by appealing to the Constitution and to precedents in its interpretation)

Orthodox tradition is not a, as in one commentary, but the accretion of commentary over time. So we thrive upon Chrysostom's commentary on scripture, on Pascha (Easter), and so forth, but we look to other Church Fathers to describe our relationship with and to Jews (Chrysostom wrote some very anti-Semitic things). But in answer to your question: It is not an either/or, but both. I weigh my inner witness of scripture against the what I understand as Orthodox tradition/interpretation. You must understand there is a great deal of diversity within the broad sense of Orthodox tradition. One can find cessationists (those who believe that the Spiritual gifts of tongues, for example have passed), yet the official statement on the matter which can be found on the goarch.org site - the Greek jurisdiction in America- clearly points to the perserverance of this minor gift.

All that to say that Holy Tradition is a fence around a sizable pasture. Outside of that fence is Arianism, outside of that fence is Christianity without Episcopates. Within the fence are shepherds who have come in through the gate; outside the fence are shepherds who, Lord knows- not our pasture.

I’m glad you brought up the Canaanite woman. It’s funny that the only two times recorded where Jesus complements anyone’s faith, are to the ones that were never in the “Promiseâ€Â. Yes, they were dog’s… infidels… and look how the disciples mocked her… My god, My jesus… My… church… Yet upon this petra , I will build my ekklesia
With your own words I have heard that the Orthodox do not limit God’s ability or desire. God will save whom He chooses to save. Would the Orthodox now stake claim that the “Orthodox†Church is the only ordained institution in which salvation can be obtained? Would the Orthodox go as far as to say the true ekklesia can only be found in the Orthodox ekklesia?

We cannot say who the Lord will ultimately save anymore than we can say who He will not save. When we say we are the Church, we are being exclusivist. It is fitting to do so- for if we hadn't been exclusivist when the Arians troubled us, we would have needed to incorporate a compromise with their heresy into our own received tradition.

There are many faucets of God, one being the Christ. Rogerian doctorate and other false teachings would have us believe that one needs to find his own way… To come to his own conclusions. This simply is not true, nor is it biblical by set examples or standards found within the Bible. As a result, what you say is also true and in alignment with the word of God to my current understanding.
Now, here is the fun part… The “Mysterious†part… Yes, we do need to teach each other, but we also need to know how to discern things for ourselves so that we aren’t led astray by our fleshly desires. So, when we teach each other, are we teaching worldly things that come from our flesh? Or, are we allowing Christ to manifest himself in us? When Christ is made manifest in us, yes, we are doing the “workâ€Â, but Christ is guiding our actions. This, is in my opinion, is but one of many aspects of being a co-author with our creator. Collectively doing should in essence unite the ekklesia. Which brings me to this point. Why, after 2000 years hasn’t the ekklesia succeeded into one united body? Actually, the answer is quite simple… Fleshly desires.

Even within the visible unity of the Orthodox Church exists fleshly desires- we never cease being human. I think disunity persists for a variety of reasons. I trust Christ to keep His Bride, and prepare her. At the time of His coming, a great many will be in apostasy, according to scripture, so we should not be surprised. I happen to believe that we can minimize the impact of this apostasy through prayer and humility. Am I saying that every one outside the Orthodox communion is in this apostasy? No, I am simply saying that we ought be aware that disunity and trouble should be expected. Therefore, Orthodox, Catholic, and Protestant should approach God in humility, and pray for those outside our communion.

If this is entirely true, which from you O.C. I believe, then why is it that we have such divisions amongst ourselves? This is not directed at you OC, but to those that limit the sovereignty of God by claiming that this ‘different jesus’ isn’t the same Jesus… The same God? Now, doctrine and theology are important. I’m not saying that it isn’t, so everyone, don’t freak out and read into this what is not there. DOCTRINE IS IMPORTANT.
Let me give an overly simple example for those who are having a tough time following. I view my wife in a different manner than my children view her. Additionally, my children know my wife as ‘Mom’. Now, are we really limiting God or in our theology, or, is it our limitations that keep us from God hence creating all these divisions?
I tell you the truth, I love God with all my heart, soul and mind. Everything that I have, everything that I am, I continually try to give, and do God’s will to the best that I can. In my quest, I am not perfect and I make mistakes... Many mistakes. Now, who calls me brother? Who calls me enemy?

Even the prodigal who has yet not turned for home is the brother to the one who remained at home, and the son to the Father of the house. I am looking for brothers everywhere, no matter what they call themself or declare to believe. Those who declare Love for Christ, and if this bears witness to me- well, I'm hard pressed not to consider them a brother. At the same time, I do not necessarily embrace their doctrines as being genuine- but one plants, another waters, God gets the increase.

I must run to work- and will finish this later
Peace my friend.

 

[Orthodoxy]

StoveBolts

Do you see the irony in your statment?

No.

So, what is it?

What is what?

Do you decide that the Orthodox church is the only "True" Church?

No. The Holy Orthodox Church makes that exclusive claim, history validates the claim, I believe the claim and tell others of Jesus Christ and His fulness.

Tell me again, what does it take to become a member of God's Church??

Repent, and be baptised everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and you shall recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The One Baptism is found in the One Church. The Holy Orthodox Church.

Orthodoxy

 

[cj]

Do you say these things to test my “Christ likeness and fruitsâ€Â.

How you love to turn the spotlight on yourself.

Silly fellow, you, just as I, are a failure. Whether you know to admit it or not.

Only Christ passes the test.


But here we are, witnesses to your starting off yet another one of you post from a basis of pride,...... thus setting the tone for the remainding content, perhaps.

Lets see.......

You are the fruit tester? It appears we have fruit detectors, fruit inspectors, and fruit testers on this board. Cast your pathetic fireballs some place else if you want to have a discussion with me.

What's truly pathetic is the confusion you express.

What I had before was what you have today.

I quite doubt that Orthodox.

In fact, you expose even more confusion as all any believer can ever have is just Christ.

If you were saved before then you had Christ. And if so, all you have today is just the same Christ.

See, you so want to believe that the apostate institution you hold onto issues in something more being added to you. But this is just the lie of Satan that has caused you once again to be brought into bondage.

Your opine is meaningless when spoken out of ignorance.

Any opinion other than the Lord's is meaningless.

Tell me why my belief in Jesus Christ is apostate?

Though saved, you choose to hold to the wrong head.

You have accused me of being Satan and apostate, now back up your childish rhetoric with facts.

What portions of your posts would you like me to use?

Make your list of what I must believe about Jesus Christ in your opinion to be saved then let us compare before you call me Satan incarnate or apostate.

Jesus told us to just believe,....... and salvation would spontaneously occur.

BTW, did I actually say that you were Satan incarnate?

What are you blabbering about? Most of my posts are trying to get coy and evasive Protestants to answer simple questions on the Christian faith. I can’t get past the surface to find anything deep. I don’t know who you think Jesus is or what you think his gospel is because I am to busy dodging fireballs. Maybe this is your motive… keep me on the defensive so you can avoid direct questions.

I don't believe you've asked me anything out of a pure heart. And if not, then as "direct" (honest) as you may think your questions are, the Lord knows they aren't.

Now what are you talking about? You said you read my posts. Did you see the one where I said I accepted Jesus Christ 36 years ago?

Receiving Christ as life is just the first part of our full salvation, as this Life that we have received must now be allowed to flow out of our Spirit where it dwells in us, into our heart, transforming and conforming our heart by renewing it.

Orthodox, the very thing you think is acheived by the outward forms you participate in is actually only acheived by your participation of these things inwardly.

The Holy of Holies is in your regenerated spirit, and it is into this spirit that we are to come forward boldly.

There is nothing holy and spiritual about a man-made altar, but there is most certainly something holy and spiritual about that which God has "built" into a believer's regenerated spirit, and is being built into a believer's heart.


Do you know Christ as the peg God has placed in the wall? Do you know Christ as the wings by which we are lifted up? Do you know Christ as the deer on the mountain? Do you know Christ as the reality of all the offerings found in the old testament scriptures?

Orthodoxy, you might have been saved 36 years ago, but the Lord can choose to reveal Himself more fully to one who was saved just yesterday, if He so desires.

Don't hold onto your 36 years of being a Christian as if this is some badge of honor. It isn't, its just the Lord's mercy.

The only way to grow is to have “parents†that teach you and nurture you.

And a seed, what parents does a seed have?

The protestant faith produces orphans and widows not many Christians with maturity.

The Protestant "faith" is as apostate as that from which it came out of, apostate Rome.

If there are orphans and widows and much immaturity it is because of the the corruption that was inherited from Romanism.

You for example are a perfect representation of a spoiled self raise “Christian†brat.

This type of meaningless statement is to be expected from a blind man.

Casting your fireballs willy nilly around like you were Jesus Christ Himself.

So, Jesus Christ casts around willy nilly fireballs does He..... whatever you say Orthodox.

You have no authority what so ever to cast spit balls much less fireballs. You pal are a little child that needs a good spiritual spanking.

Aaaahhh, according to scripture,..... we all from time to time require the Lord's chastening.

Speak for your own version of Christianity, son. You have been alive for centuries? Where? In the good ol USA? Christianity is an eastern religion not “made in Americaâ€Â.

Christianity is an eastern religion not “made in Americaâ€Â.

Well, in a sense I do agree with you, "Christianity" is an eastern religion.

But praise the Lord, Christ is just Christ,... not eastern, or northern, southern, or western,..... just Christ.

And neither is this Christ a religion, He is just life. Just as He declared Himself to be.



Orthodox, at the beginning of your post you asked me this......

"Tell me why my belief in Jesus Christ is apostate?"

Why?

You said...... "Christianity is an eastern religion not “made in Americaâ€Â.


Only the false doctrines of an apostate institution would produce the above dark statement out of a believer's mouth.



I'll end here for the moment as I don't want to make this post long.


In love,
cj

 

[Orthodoxy]

cj

Tell me why my belief in Jesus Christ is apostate?

I asked:

Though saved, you choose to hold to the wrong head.

Your answer. This is your answer? I hold the wrong head? Define what the "right head" is and the "wrong head " is. unless you can do this this is just a personal opinion that holds no water. Tell me what I believe about Jesus Christ that makes me an apostate.

I asked:

You have accused me of being Satan and apostate, now back up your childish rhetoric with facts.

Your answer:

What portions of your posts would you like me to use?

This is your answer to this direct question? Use any post where I stated my "belief in Jesus Christ" that you have deemed "apostate" and satanic. You know what I mean so stop playing coy and evasive. Answer the question "what about my belief in Jesus Christ makes me apostate?

I asked:

Make your list of what I must believe about Jesus Christ in your opinion to be saved then let us compare before you call me Satan incarnate or apostate.

Your answer:

Jesus told us to just believe,....... and salvation would spontaneously occur.

Believe what? What do I believe that makes me apostate and a mouth piece of satan? You know what I mean stop playing coy.

BTW, did I actually say that you were Satan incarnate?

There was a strong implication yes. Answer my question and stop being an accuser of the brethern.

You say:

I don't believe you've asked me anything out of a pure heart. And if not, then as "direct" (honest) as you may think your questions are, the Lord knows they aren't.

Here again you judge me as an answer to a question. You are the Lord, eh?

Receiving Christ as life is just the first part of our full salvation, as this Life that we have received must now be allowed to flow out of our Spirit where it dwells in us, into our heart, transforming and conforming our heart by renewing it.

Adding to believe eh? Acceptance of Jesus is only part of "full salvation"? One is not completely saved when one accepts Jesus and must do something else huh? Can you show me the words "full salvation" in the bible?

Orthodox, the very thing you think is acheived by the outward forms you participate in is actually only acheived by your participation of these things inwardly.

Are you accusing me of not really worshipping God when I attend an orthodox service? You can see my heart when I pray? interesting you judge my prayer life.

The Holy of Holies is in your regenerated spirit, and it is into this spirit that we are to come forward boldly.

You are so deep I need a nose plug. Got any other old protestant revelations. You really should quote your sources for these ideas because you did not come up with this in your pea brain.

There is nothing holy and spiritual about a man-made altar, but there is most certainly something holy and spiritual about that which God has "built" into a believer's regenerated spirit, and is being built into a believer's heart.

Believers. You keep saying that word yet you cannot define what the "believer" believes. You do not believe what has always been taught by the Church so I must question your brand of "believe".

Do you know Christ as the peg God has placed in the wall? Do you know Christ as the wings by which we are lifted up? Do you know Christ as the deer on the mountain? Do you know Christ as the reality of all the offerings found in the old testament scriptures?

Do you know how stupid you sound trying to act "holy" and all knowing? Yanni where are you?

Orthodoxy, you might have been saved 36 years ago, but the Lord can choose to reveal Himself more fully to one who was saved just yesterday, if He so desires.

The fulness of Him is the Church. "the Holy Scripture".

Don't hold onto your 36 years of being a Christian as if this is some badge of honor. It isn't, its just the Lord's mercy.

I have been orthodox for four years approximately. I accepted the protestant jesus 36 years ago. I have been a christian 4 years.

And a seed, what parents does a seed have?

Get a biology book. Maybe a "good gardener" can tell you.

The Protestant "faith" is as apostate as that from which it came out of, apostate Rome.

Yes and america christianity is firmly rooted in the protestant faith. You can deny and re write history if you wish but that will just make you a mormon and a Roman Catholic. How can you curse the roots of your "believe"? Did your "believe" drop out of the sky when you said "yes" to Jesus Christ? How arrogant to believe the Church became aware of what the Church believes when you were "born again". Thank God he allowed you to be born! Do you even comprehend the Church existed for 1900+ years before you were born and will continue long after your corpse is rotting in the ground? The height of arrogance.

If there are orphans and widows and much immaturity it is because of the the corruption that was inherited from Romanism.

Yep.

And neither is this Christ a religion, He is just life. Just as He declared Himself to be.

"Tell me why my belief in Jesus Christ is apostate?"

Why?

You said...... "Christianity is an eastern religion not “made in Americaâ€Â.


Only the false doctrines of an apostate institution would produce the above dark statement out of a believer's mouth.[/quote]

The historical origins of American Protestant Christianity are rooted in the "puritians". Must I give you an american history lesson as well as a Christian history lesson? The Church in North America came through Lief Erickson before 1000 ad and Alaska through Russia in 1789ad. When the Mayfair and other vessels landed Orthodoxy was in North America for 700 years! Protestant faith formed the US in 1776 or there abouts. I do not think any of the founders of America were Orthodox Christians but I could be wrong.

You say you believe. The Church asks "what do you believe" and why dont you believe what the Church has always taught.

You must understand that it is not the Church that answers to you but you answer to the Church in Jesus Christ's words which state "tell it to the Church". Tell your belief to the Church and the Church will deem it "Correct" and "True". The Church determines who is and who is not a Christian.

Orthodoxy

 

[cj]

Let us take a close look at the boast of 36 years of walking with the Lord, topped off by this one's 4-year history in the Orthodox religion........


Orthodox says,

"You are so deep I need a nose plug. Got any other old protestant revelations. You really should quote your sources for these ideas because you did not come up with this in your pea brain."



Now tell me, which believer reading this speaking of Orthodox is so moved by it as to thirst after the doctrines that on being received cause this to issue forth from the receiver?


Or in other words, should any believer want to end up speaking like this?

And worse, even boast in it?


What Orthodox is failing to realize is that he is condemned by his own words,.... just as scripture declares will happen.



In love,
cj

 

[thessalonian]

Let us take a close look at the boast of 36 years of walking with the Lord, topped off by this one's 4-year history in the Orthodox religion........


Orthodox says,

"You are so deep I need a nose plug. Got any other old protestant revelations. You really should quote your sources for these ideas because you did not come up with this in your pea brain."



Now tell me, which believer reading this speaking of Orthodox is so moved by it as to thirst after the doctrines that on being received cause this to issue forth from the receiver?


Or in other words, should any believer want to end up speaking like this?

And worse, even boast in it?


What Orthodox is failing to realize is that he is condemned by his own words,.... just as scripture declares will happen.



In love,
cj

I will not defend the wording of Orthodoxy's posts. However, if you want to make this point your are going to have to consider Martin Luther's vulgarities. Isn't he the man credited with starting the wonderful reformation. A and a couple of sses was one of his favorite words. He loved paintings showing popes flatulating and bishops being excreted in papal feces. Vulgarity was no stanger to him, yet this did not bother people at all. They flocked after him. Today, and thousands of denominations later with division upon division and contradiction upon contradictions, the fruit of dear Martin's life can be seen.

Blessings

 

[cj]

Let us take a close look at the boast of 36 years of walking with the Lord, topped off by this one's 4-year history in the Orthodox religion........


Orthodox says,

"You are so deep I need a nose plug. Got any other old protestant revelations. You really should quote your sources for these ideas because you did not come up with this in your pea brain."



Now tell me, which believer reading this speaking of Orthodox is so moved by it as to thirst after the doctrines that on being received cause this to issue forth from the receiver?


Or in other words, should any believer want to end up speaking like this?

And worse, even boast in it?


What Orthodox is failing to realize is that he is condemned by his own words,.... just as scripture declares will happen.



In love,
cj

I will not defend the wording of Orthodoxy's posts.

In reality....... you can't.

Any thought you may have of "defending" anything is simply vanity on your part.

However, if you want to make this point your are going to have to consider Martin Luther's vulgarities.

No,.... I am not bond to consider anything other than the Lord, and in pointing out what I did above regarding Orthodox's speaking my consideration was I hope only the Lord.

Isn't he the man credited with starting the wonderful reformation.

It is God who initiates/allows all things.

You can choose to look at a man if you want, but understand this, when you look at men you will receive all of man's fallen ways.

Luther was a saved sinner, just as we all are.

A and a couple of sses was one of his favorite words. He loved paintings showing popes flatulating and bishops being excreted in papal Jesus is Lord of all. Vulgarity was no stanger to him, yet this did not bother people at all. They flocked after him.

Just as millions flock to see a man referred to as the Pope, who sits on a throne upheld by the adversary of God.

Each man is responsible for himself.

Today, and thousands of denominations later with division upon division and contradiction upon contradictions, the fruit of dear Martin's life can be seen.

What abject ignorance you put into words.

Following your reasoning, based on the hatred, murder, fornication, and overwhelming evil found in the world today one could conclude that Jesus' death availed nothing.

Yet I understand why you are in such darkness, so as to be one who allows himself to be influenced by what he thinks he sees.

This is to your own condemnation, as it declares that you are one who abides in the realm of the flesh, and not in the realm of faith.




Tell me, how many years has it been since God first preached the saving gospel?


In love,
cj

 

[cj]

I will not defend the wording of Orthodoxy's posts.

In reality....... you can't.

Any thought you may have of "defending" anything is simply vanity on your part.

However, if you want to make this point your are going to have to consider Martin Luther's vulgarities.

No,.... I am not bond to consider anything other than the Lord, and in pointing out what I did above regarding Orthodox's speaking my consideration was I hope only the Lord.

Isn't he the man credited with starting the wonderful reformation.

It is God who initiates/allows all things.

You can choose to look at a man if you want, but understand this, when you look at men you will receive all of man's fallen ways.

Luther was a saved sinner, just as we all are.

A and a couple of sses was one of his favorite words. He loved paintings showing popes flatulating and bishops being excreted in papal Jesus is Lord of all. Vulgarity was no stanger to him, yet this did not bother people at all. They flocked after him.

Just as millions flock to see a man referred to as the Pope, who sits on a throne upheld by the adversary of God.

Each man is responsible for himself.

Today, and thousands of denominations later with division upon division and contradiction upon contradictions, the fruit of dear Martin's life can be seen.

What abject ignorance you put into words.

Following your reasoning, based on the hatred, murder, fornication, and overwhelming evil found in the world today one could conclude that Jesus' death availed nothing.

Yet I understand why you are in such darkness, so as to be one who allows himself to be influenced by what he thinks he sees.

This is to your own condemnation, as it declares that you are one who abides in the realm of the flesh, and not in the realm of faith.




Tell me, how many years has it been since God first preached the saving gospel?


In love,
cj

 

[thessalonian]

I will not defend the wording of Orthodoxy's posts.

In reality....... you can't.

Don't distort what I said. I said wouldn't. I wouldn't because I think he was doing some flaming. I hope he sees this and takes it as a rebuke but he has already made it clear that he does not see us as unified so I don't expect my words to mean much is why I don't address him directly. I see much of your words as flaming as well. But you will not accept my rebuke either.

Any thought you may have of "defending" anything is simply vanity on your part.

Ditto for some of your words to me below.

]However, if you want to make this point your are going to have to consider Martin Luther's vulgarities.

No,.... I am not bond to consider anything other than the Lord, and in pointing out what I did above regarding Orthodox's speaking my consideration was I hope only the Lord.

If your hope is in the Lord that is good. But Lord alone to the exclusion of all others is a false dichotomy. The Lord sends shepherds after his own heart. (jer 3:15). Somebody around the Christian world has to have the authority to rebuke since that is what 2 Tim 3:16 says Christians are supposed to use the scriptures for. That implies an authority to some men. Some men are supposed to be teachers and pass those teachings on to others. Men are to be the light of the world. These are not dichotomies with depending on Christ. Those who are his chosen, are to be these things. And there are to be religious authorities over us. If you see otherwise your just being blind. Heb 13:17 says OBEY AND SUBMIT TO YOUR LEADERS WHO HAVE CONCERN FOR YOUR SOULS. In Titus we are told that "those who rule well deserve a greater share of the reward". The context is religous ruling. Timothy is told to set up elders in every town. Now these men have to be legitimate authorities as there is clearly some who usurp authority in the scriptures. So who are the legitimate authorities?

]Isn't he the man credited with starting the wonderful reformation.

It is God who initiates/allows all things.

Division is the fruits of the deformation. That is not of God. Yes, God allowed it to wake the Church that stood for 1500 years to rise out of the ashes of laxity. But the reformation itself was not of God any more than the sins of man, even though God allows them, are of God.

] You can choose to look at a man if you want, but understand this, when you look at men you will receive all of man's fallen ways.

"Obey and submit to your LEADER who have concern for your souls." How difficult is that for you to grasp? There are legitimate authorities. Peter was one, even though he denied our Lord three times and catered to the Judaziers. Should we throw his two books out. Paul was one even though he said "the good that I would do, I do not, while the EVIL that I would not do, I DO". If you look to men, you reciever their fallen ways? If this is an eternal rule of God then we must rip Paul's books out of the Bible.

[Luther was a saved sinner, just as we all are.

Do you know this for sure? Can you judge his heart? What are the fruits of his life? Have you examined them all? Isn't it "by their fruits you shall know them". I don't claim to be his judge and he may well have repented of much of the discord he caused so I don't say he is in hell. I leave God to do the final judgin. His fruits however, from what I can see are division and vulgarity. He claimed himself to be God's authority yet his fruits show otherwise. He lied about the origins of his new found revelatoin. Said he discovered the Bible in a dusty library. Simply and utterly a lie. There were Bibles all over the place. Would you like me to list the evidence that this was an outright lie. I would kind of clutter the thread with just a little of it.

Just as millions flock to see a man referred to as the Pope, who sits on a throne upheld by the adversary of God.[quote:db5dc]


Are you jealous or what. Is Billy Graham damned because hundreds of thousands come to see him? No the papacy is not the adversary of God. If it were the Papacy would have fallen long ago as all the nations who's governments turn toward the evil one fall. The Papacy has stood 2000 years, many times in spite of itself and the weakness of it's leaders. The scriptures tell us that a house built upon a rock (Christ) will stand the storms of time. (see Matt 7, when the rains came and the winds blew...). The weakness of some of the Characters in that office actually bears out that God was the protector of the office. He choses the weak to do his bidding we are told in Heb 5. Peter was a very weak man, chosen by God because there was nothing in him to claim for himself. This is the case with many of the Popes. If the Popes were the antichrist it would seem you have a problem since the antiChrist cannot proclaim Jesus as Lord, yet you find it all over in JPII and the current Popes writings as well as the majority of the past popes.

Each man is responsible for himself.

In some sense this is true. But not completely so or the ignorant who could not read would be damned to hell because of there inability to read. Throughout the ages most men have not been able to read. It seems to me from what you are saying that they would be damned to hell. The Lord, as I clearly showed above and I didn't post half of the verses, does give us leaders to be our guides and to teach us.

]Today, and thousands of denominations later with division upon division and contradiction upon contradictions, the fruit of dear Martin's life can be seen.

What abject ignorance you put into words
Following your reasoning, based on the hatred, murder, fornication, and overwhelming evil found in the world today one could conclude that Jesus' death availed nothing.

Ah, a good flame. Don't ya love it.
It would? So what are you a universalist. Do you think all those who hate, murder, fornicate and all go to heaven. Do you think a Christian should not be doing these things and that Christ actually came to free him from his sins. There fruits should reflect that they are rooting sin out of their lives. Yes, all of these can be forgiven but they are to "go and sin no more". We still stumble of course and so see Christians sinning, but when one persists in what divides the Church he is not bearing fruit.

Yet I understand why you are in such darkness, so as to be one who allows himself to be influenced by what he thinks he sees.

No you don't. If you did you wouldn't be in the darkness you are in.
Back at ya. :D

[This is to your own condemnation, as it declares that you are one who abides in the realm of the flesh, and not in the realm of faith.

Ah, my condemnation. I'll let God judge that since I find you to be infinitely unqualified. I hope you don't mind me not putting you in the same class with the Alpha and Omega, the infinite triune God who alone is qualified to judge the hearts of men. I am not expecting you at the great pearlys so your rebuke means nothing. You need to look in the mirror when you say such things. :D

Tell me, how many years has it been since God first preached the saving gospel?

[/quote:db5dc]

Huh? A trick question or what?


God bless

 

[stovebolts]

Orthodoxy,

Now, back to the topic of the Church.

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto you, That you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hades shall not prevail against it.

Is this Church built on Peter? With all due respect the answer is simply no. We see this not only in the book of acts with Peter's own words, but we see it in 1 and 2nd Peter as well. Is the Church built on confession(Matthew 16:16)? Partially, but let us look at this verse.

Can I get in on the fray. :-D SB, is a man his confession? Jesus says "thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church". Now who does he give the keys of the kingdom to "I give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. WHATEVER you bind on earthh...". Who is you here. Surely I can answer for you (being SB). It is Peter. Can it be anyone else. So Christ is talking about Peter in v. 19. Why then would he not be talking about Peter in v. 18. I see no transistion point to where it is obvious that he switched objects of his words. Yes, Peter made a good confession of faith and that is why he says "thou are Kepha and upon this KEPHA I will build my Church." . Certainly Peters confession was a big part of the reason, but the wording is clear. Peter is whom the Church is built upon. Thou that is not dichotomous to Christ being the foundation upon which the Church is built upon. Have you ever seen the striking parrellel between Matt 16:18 and Is 22:22? It's amazing and full of meaning..

Thank you for the link between Matt 16:18 and Is 22:22. I believe I will enjoy this thread if I can find the time to keep up with it.
BTW, it's not Kepha in any of the text's I've found. It's Petra.
Now, a foundation has it's starting point... The cornerstone. Peter is but one rock of many living rocks... And what was different about Peter than those around him? Why was Peters confession correct?
Matthew 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed are you, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood has not revealed it unto you, but my Father who is in heaven.
My Father... Peter did nothing to come to this conclusion, it was simply God's will that Peter should have it revealed. Such as Peter, the foundation is not picked by man, it's picked by God.

1 Corinthians 3:9 For we are laborers together with God: you are God's field, you are God's building.

So yes, we do have a part in it, but what about the foundation?

1 Corinthians 3:11 For no other foundation can a man lay than what is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Christ is, and has always been the foundation. The Cornerstone...

As I eleuded to above. You think in dichotomies. You must put on the mind of Christ in order to avoid these and understand scripture. Otherwise you will continuously contradict yourself as you have. You imply Peter is not the foundation or a part of it. Well the scriptures say differently.

Eph 2
[19] So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,
[20] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,

So prophets and apostles are the foundation of the house of God, the Church? How can this be. It is because Christ works in and through men to build his kingdom. The prophets and apostles laid the foundation that Christ was laying for the Church through them. There is no dichotomy at all. God works through men. He gives them the grace to do his work. Praise God!

No argument here. Have you ever seen the striking parallel between Eph 2:22 and Is 28:16? It's amazing and full of meaning. I especially like what is used to measure and plumb the position of the cornerstone found in verse 17 and what the result is in verse 18.

Peter, was a stone. We, are called to be living stones.

Peter was not just any stone. He was one of the foundation stones.

Again, no argument here. It appears that we agree in more than one area. Perhaps we simply put the focus in different areas. I, seem to look at Christ as the cornerstone, measuring and plumbing His foundation which we, as well as Peter are co-authors of. This, is built on God's will through our faith in God's grace.
Yes, it was Peter that was the rock, but look at what made him the rock. It was not his flesh nor his blood. It was the glorious revelation from God.

 

[thessalonian]

Thank you for the link between Matt 16:18 and Is 22:22. I believe I will enjoy this thread if I can find the time to keep up with it.

Your welcome. There's alot in there. First of all it indicates succession and authority. Shebna was the steward in a long line of stewards. If I am not mistaken it was about 400 years after David so there had been many stewards. That's succession. Eliakim was to take possession of his office. I see this as an indication that Christ was conferring a similar office on Peter with succession and authority. Keys denote both succession and authority. I bought a house 10 years ago. When I took possession of that house I recieved keys. These keys will be passed on to a future owner. They give the owner access and authority over the home. Also if one looks in the Old Testament you see other things about the office of steward in the Davidic Kingdom of the Jews. The Steward is the spokesman for the king. I believe it is in 2 Kings 18 that Eliakim goes out to meet the Assyrian general and negotiates. He does not go back to the king to get the okay but actually speaks for the king.

BTW, it's not Kepha in any of the text's I've found. It's Petra.

Petra is Greek but the episode was not spoken in Greek. We know that Jesus used the word Kepha because in John 1:42 which talks about the coming of faith to Peter, it calls him Cephas which is a form of Kepha. Peter is called Cephas by Paul a couple of times as well.

No argument here. Have you ever seen the striking parallel between Eph 2:22 and Is 28:16? It's amazing and full of meaning. I especially like what is used to measure and plumb the position of the cornerstone found in verse 17 and what the result is in verse 18.

No, I will look in to it.

Again, no argument here. It appears that we agree in more than one area. Perhaps we simply put the focus in different areas. I, seem to look at Christ as the cornerstone, measuring and plumbing His foundation which we, as well as Peter are co-authors of. This, is built on God's will through our faith in God's grace.
Yes, it was Peter that was the rock, but look at what made him the rock. It was not his flesh nor his blood. It was the glorious revelation from God.

I agree. We must recognize what God has done in those who were inserted in to scripture and give him honor and glory for doing so.

 

[Orthodoxy]

Let us take a close look at the boast of 36 years of walking with the Lord, topped off by this one's 4-year history in the Orthodox religion........


Orthodox says,

"You are so deep I need a nose plug. Got any other old protestant revelations. You really should quote your sources for these ideas because you did not come up with this in your pea brain."



Now tell me, which believer reading this speaking of Orthodox is so moved by it as to thirst after the doctrines that on being received cause this to issue forth from the receiver?


Or in other words, should any believer want to end up speaking like this?

And worse, even boast in it?


What Orthodox is failing to realize is that he is condemned by his own words,.... just as scripture declares will happen.



In love,
cj

You have made insipid and rancid remarks concerning my christian walk. You have made railing accusations against the Church and called the Orthodox "of satan" and part of the "whore". Over and over you attempt to divert the debate to my personality and the way I state the obvious.

Why dont you just answer the questions I asked and stop with your petty attempts to prove my fruit is bad. If you cannot answer the questions just be man enough to admit you just dont know and dont care.

The words "pea brain" have offended you yet Jesus Christ your claimed Lord was not offended with even the cross? Really? You do need a thicker skin.

Now answer the questions placed before you.

Orthodoxy

 

[cj]

Let us take a close look at the boast of 36 years of walking with the Lord, topped off by this one's 4-year history in the Orthodox religion........


Orthodox says,

"You are so deep I need a nose plug. Got any other old protestant revelations. You really should quote your sources for these ideas because you did not come up with this in your pea brain."



Now tell me, which believer reading this speaking of Orthodox is so moved by it as to thirst after the doctrines that on being received cause this to issue forth from the receiver?


Or in other words, should any believer want to end up speaking like this?

And worse, even boast in it?


What Orthodox is failing to realize is that he is condemned by his own words,.... just as scripture declares will happen.



In love,
cj

You have made insipid and rancid remarks concerning my christian walk.

I don't believe you're speaking truthfully Orthodox, I speak against the apostate institution and it issue that can be seen in men.

You simply are one of many who have been duped into this counterfeit of Satan.

You have made railing accusations against the Church...

No I have not. What you call the Church is not the true church of God. Therefore all I've done is call the lie a lie.

..... and called the Orthodox "of satan" and part of the "whore".

Jesus said that if you are not for Him you are against Him. And to be against Him is to have given/prostituted yourself to His enemy.

Over and over you attempt to divert the debate to my personality and the way I state the obvious.

Not at all,..... but the above comment of your's was so glaringly a disgraceful expression of that which you serve, that I so the profit in pointing out the result work of the apostate institution in you.

The fact is, your words condemn the very thing to which you hold.

Why dont you just answer the questions I asked and stop with your petty attempts to prove my fruit is bad.

Its not your fruit that I'm pointing out,...... its you as the fruit of the apostate institution.

If you cannot answer the questions just be man enough to admit you just dont know and dont care.

Ask it again.

The words "pea brain" have offended you yet Jesus Christ your claimed Lord was not offended with even the cross? Really? You do need a thicker skin.

"Pea brain" offends me? Get real.

Now answer the questions placed before you.

Orthodoxy

Place it again.

In love,
cj

 

[Soma-Sight]

I love all PEOPLE and respect all religious idealogies even though I may not agree with them.

To do otherwise is to claim God - status.

That is why I love Catholic PEOPLE.

Because we are ALL children of God!

 

[cj]

I love all PEOPLE and respect all religious idealogies even though I may not agree with them.

"Respect" is a funny word........ what you are saying is that your "respect" for all religious concepts ends at your personal choice/preference for one.

I wonder, when these "all religious" concepts begin to infringe on your chosen religion, how much "respect" will remain.

You speak big thoughs with little virtue.

It would be more honest to say "I can respect all religious concepts as long as they respect my religious concept."

So much for the Headship of Jesus being that which upholds.

To do otherwise is to claim God - status.

Fact is, believers represent God on the earth today.

But aside from that, to "respect" the rights of others to believe what they want is to submit to man's laws, which scripture says to do while we live. BuT scripture tells us that God declares that men have no rights and are actually dead unles found in Jesus.

That is why I love Catholic PEOPLE.

Is this a new creation,.... these "Catholic" people?

Cause last I heard, the only people that ever existed are those of the first adam and the life-giving Spirit.

Because we are ALL children of God!

Be very careful in your general speakin, for in all of us there still dwells for a time the old man, which is not in anyway a child of God.

In love,
cj

 

[Solo]

Not all are the children of God.

34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: 35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: 36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. 37 Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. 38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him. Luke 20:34-38

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by F31 his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Romans 8:10-17

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Galatians 3:26-27

If one isn't a child of God, then who is he/she?

6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. F15 7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them. 8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: 9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) 10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. Ephesians 5:6-11

5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: 6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: 7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. Colossians 3:5-7

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
1 John 3:7-10

It looks to me like there are children of God and children of the devil (children of disobedience). Only those who are born of God are children of God; those born of man/woman may become children of God or children of disobedience, and it is a choice that each one makes.

 

[Soma-Sight]

Not all are the children of God.

That is the most perverted statement I have seen in such time.

This is the reason we have the Holocaust, wars over "Chosen people" and sin in general.

Please pray for forgiveness for such a "stone cold heart".

 

[Solo]

Not all are the children of God.

That is the most perverted statement I have seen in such time.

This is the reason we have the Holocaust, wars over "Chosen people" and sin in general.

Please pray for forgiveness for such a "stone cold heart".

NOT ALL ARE THE CHILDREN OF GOD. Read the Bible you poor lost soul.

You should search your heart for hardness and rebelliousness towards the creator God. You then will know that not all are the children of God.

Why do you ever post scripture, when you don't believe it? God's word says that there are children of God and children of the devil. Those that are not children of God will suffer the wrath of God.

Believe God or believe instead your own mythology. It is your choice.

 

[Soma-Sight]

Why do you ever post scripture, when you don't believe it? God's word says that there are children of God and children of the devil. Those that are not children of God will suffer the wrath of God.

Show me the verse where Satan created his children?

This kind of mentality is sicking to say the least!

Matthew 18:3 (New International Version)

3And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.


Your adult sepratism doesnt sound too "childlike" to me!