"I and the Father are One."

[elijah23]

Jesus said:

“I and the Father are one.†John 10:30 RSV

Is this helpful in understanding who Jesus is?

 

[shad]

Jesus said:

“I and the Father are one.†John 10:30 RSV

Is this helpful in understanding who Jesus is?

Jesus is in agreement with His Father fully and the most obedient Son of God. Jesus was sent by His Father to be the Lamb for our sins.

There is no complication in the above verse.

 

[elijah23]

Jesus is in agreement with His Father fully and the most obedient Son of God. Jesus was sent by His Father to be the Lamb for our sins.

There is no complication in the above verse.

Aren’t you saying, however, that Jesus and God are two, even if they are in agreement?

 

[shad]

Jesus is in agreement with His Father fully and the most obedient Son of God. Jesus was sent by His Father to be the Lamb for our sins.

There is no complication in the above verse.

Aren’t you saying, however, that Jesus and God are two, even if they are in agreement?

Just because they are in agreement does not mean they have the same title. Jesus is faithful Son of God. That makes Him to say He and the Father are one. They are one in purposes and will.

 

[elijah23]

Just because they are in agreement does not mean they have the same title. Jesus is faithful Son of God. That makes Him to say He and the Father are one. They are one in purposes and will.

I take Jesus more literally. When he says he and God are one, then I believe they are the same person. Doesn't that make sense?

 

[shad]

Just because they are in agreement does not mean they have the same title. Jesus is faithful Son of God. That makes Him to say He and the Father are one. They are one in purposes and will.

I take Jesus more literally. When he says he and God are one, then I believe they are the same person. Doesn't that make sense?

Then why do you ignore when Jesus and His apostles address the Father as God and Jesus as Lord when they address them together? There are tons of examples I listed in my thread "God the Father, Jesus the Lord". There is not even one exception saying God the Son. It is always "Son of God".

You should be open about it because when you make mystical doctrines, there is something wrong about it. Why do they make up mystical doctrine like the Trinity? And they used this doctrine to persecute Christians who did not accept this doctrine. The trinity is divisive doctrine and being a stumbling block to many, many believers.

 

[watchman F]

Just because they are in agreement does not mean they have the same title. Jesus is faithful Son of God. That makes Him to say He and the Father are one. They are one in purposes and will.

I take Jesus more literally. When he says he and God are one, then I believe they are the same person. Doesn't that make sense?

I agree with you elijah and here is an even better verse to illustrate that truth.

John 14
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

 

[watchman F]

Just because they are in agreement does not mean they have the same title. Jesus is faithful Son of God. That makes Him to say He and the Father are one. They are one in purposes and will.

I take Jesus more literally. When he says he and God are one, then I believe they are the same person. Doesn't that make sense?

Then why do you ignore when Jesus and His apostles address the Father as God and Jesus as Lord when they address them together?

Why do you ignore the scriptures that say Jesus is God?

 

[shad]

Why do you ignore the scriptures that say Jesus is God?

I cannot communicate with you.
MM has been patient with you but I dont have the patience that he has with circular arguments.

take care.

 

[elijah23]

Then why do you ignore when Jesus and His apostles address the Father as God and Jesus as Lord when they address them together? There are tons of examples I listed in my thread "God the Father, Jesus the Lord". There is not even one exception saying God the Son. It is always "Son of God".

You should be open about it because when you make mystical doctrines, there is something wrong about it. Why do they make up mystical doctrine like the Trinity? And they used this doctrine to persecute Christians who did not accept this doctrine. The trinity is divisive doctrine and being a stumbling block to many, many believers.

Maybe this is the explanation:

When God decided he needed to come to earth in the person of Jesus, he had to find a way to identify himself to us. He couldn’t say, “I am God,†because God was more than the human being they were looking at. Instead he called himself the “Son of Man.†Perhaps “Son of man†refers to the fact that he put himself at the mercy of mankind (who then crucified him).

 

[Danus]

I'd like to pose a question for you guys since this thread is new.

If there is one God, then who was Jesus?


These trinity discussions get pretty hairy, but I think it's best approached in it's simplest form since not one of us, or anyone has the capability to fully grasp the trinity.

If there is ONE GOD....then who or what was Jesus?

1. He's God

2. He's a man

3. He's an entity in relation to God somehow?

If he's #2...we're done. he could not have fulfilled scripture and the NT is a total lie.

If he's #3 then we have another problem since we say he was sinless and capable of taking on the sins of the world but not God himself....That would be saying that he is on the same level as God....but how can that be if there is only one God?

I don't see how anyone can over think this to reach any other conclusion based on all we know of scripture and not conclude that Jesus was in fact GOD; because if you do....you end up throwing the baby out with the bath water.

 

[Mysteryman]

I'd like to pose a question for you guys since this thread is new.

If there is one God, then who was Jesus?


These trinity discussions get pretty hairy, but I think it's best approached in it's simplest form since not one of us, or anyone has the capability to fully grasp the trinity.

If there is ONE GOD....then who or what was Jesus?

1. He's God

2. He's a man

3. He's an entity in relation to God somehow?

If he's #2...we're done. he could not have fulfilled scripture and the NT is a total lie.

If he's #3 then we have another problem since we say he was sinless and capable of taking on the sins of the world but not God himself....That would be saying that he is on the same level as God....but how can that be if there is only one God?

I don't see how anyone can over think this to reach any other conclusion based on all we know of scripture and not conclude that Jesus was in fact GOD; because if you do....you end up throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Hi Danus

Well, LOL, another way of expressing your view's I see - LOL

If Jesus is #1 , you would contradict so many verses of scripture , that it is not funny. That would be like bathing your baby in dirty old black oil, and claiming that the baby is clean.

The problem with your list, is that it is incomplete. You left one out, the most truthful one to choose from.

4. He is the Son of God

I pick # 4, even though he was not on your list. However, He is listed as being the Son of God throughout scripture. I just can't imagine you leaving # 4 off of your list.

Care to explain ?

 

[Danus]

Hi Danus

Well, LOL, another way of expressing your view's I see - LOL

If Jesus is #1 , you would contradict so many verses of scripture , that it is not funny. That would be like bathing your baby in dirty old black oil, and claiming that the baby is clean.

The problem with your list, is that it is incomplete. You left one out, the most truthful one to choose from.

4. He is the Son of God

I pick # 4, even though he was not on your list. However, He is listed as being the Son of God throughout scripture. I just can't imagine you leaving # 4 off of your list.

Care to explain ?

Ahhh well now don't forget my #3. He's an entity in relation to God somehow? I see that as your 4. I want to hear you "esplain" and answer the question I posed with your explanation. I'm just seeking here.

 

[Mysteryman]

Hi Danus

Well, LOL, another way of expressing your view's I see - LOL

If Jesus is #1 , you would contradict so many verses of scripture , that it is not funny. That would be like bathing your baby in dirty old black oil, and claiming that the baby is clean.

The problem with your list, is that it is incomplete. You left one out, the most truthful one to choose from.

4. He is the Son of God

I pick # 4, even though he was not on your list. However, He is listed as being the Son of God throughout scripture. I just can't imagine you leaving # 4 off of your list.

Care to explain ?

Ahhh well now don't forget my #3. He's an entity in relation to God somehow? I see that as your 4.

Hi Danus :

LOL - Oh, I saw your # 3, which you could be suggesting angels , that would fit this # 3. Angels are sons of God as well , and they fit your # 3 correctly. However, God didn't send an angel. He sent his only begotten Son, and only # 4 fits perfectly.

 

[shad]

When God decided he needed to come to earth in the person of Jesus, he had to find a way to identify himself to us. He couldn’t say, “I am God,†because God was more than the human being they were looking at. Instead he called himself the “Son of Man.†Perhaps “Son of man†refers to the fact that he put himself at the mercy of mankind (who then crucified him).

You are still trying to accommodate your own man-made doctrine. I cannot communicate with you either because you are oneness; I cannot communicate with watchmanF either, You guys going in circular arguments without end.

take care.

 

[Danus]

Hi Danus :

LOL - Oh, I saw your # 3, which you could be suggesting angels , that would fit this # 3. Angels are sons of God as well , and they fit your # 3 correctly. However, God didn't send an angel. He sent his only begotten Son, and only # 4 fits perfectly.

Fair enough. I can go with your specific wording and replace 3 with it, or add it to the list as 4. We still have to use it to answer the question, and while I realize it dose sort of answer the question in saying Jesus was the Son of God, I need to get my head around what that means. I either have to place him on the same level as God, or place him less than God.

If I place him on the same level I bring into question of one God. One God or two? If I place him below God then I question if validity to do what he did. ....what to do? My only other option is to place him as God. That would solve the problem, but doe it pass the test?

I can except that Jesus was the son of God, but I see him as part of the God head which is one God. This gets us into that crazy mind-bending thing where we try to conceptualize what it is to be separate but one. I'm not sure its humanly possible to do it. .......it's like that old joke of placing a someone in a round room and telling then to stand in the corner. So what then becomes the best possible alternative based on all we know? What fits the best?

 

[Danus]

When God decided he needed to come to earth in the person of Jesus, he had to find a way to identify himself to us. He couldn’t say, “I am God,†because God was more than the human being they were looking at. Instead he called himself the “Son of Man.†Perhaps “Son of man†refers to the fact that he put himself at the mercy of mankind (who then crucified him).

You are still trying to accommodate your own man-made doctrine. I cannot communicate with you either because you are oneness; I cannot communicate with watchmanF either, You guys going in circular arguments without end.

take care.

Shad your that kid who brings his new ball to the park; wants others to play, but then gets mad when he gets tackled. Wants to take his ball and go home so no one else can play. Can't you just say; "good tackle?"

 

[Sinthesis]

Just because they are in agreement does not mean they have the same title. Jesus is faithful Son of God. That makes Him to say He and the Father are one. They are one in purposes and will.

I take Jesus more literally. When he says he and God are one, then I believe they are the same person. Doesn't that make sense?

Then why do you ignore when Jesus and His apostles address the Father as God and Jesus as Lord when they address them together? There are tons of examples I listed in my thread "God the Father, Jesus the Lord". There is not even one exception saying God the Son. It is always "Son of God".

You should be open about it because when you make mystical doctrines, there is something wrong about it. Why do they make up mystical doctrine like the Trinity? And they used this doctrine to persecute Christians who did not accept this doctrine. The trinity is divisive doctrine and being a stumbling block to many, many believers.

There is nothing wrong with divisive stumblingblocks when they are true.

• 1Cr 1:23 - But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
  
  Luk 12:51 - Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

 

[watchman F]

I take Jesus more literally. When he says he and God are one, then I believe they are the same person. Doesn't that make sense?

Then why do you ignore when Jesus and His apostles address the Father as God and Jesus as Lord when they address them together? There are tons of examples I listed in my thread "God the Father, Jesus the Lord". There is not even one exception saying God the Son. It is always "Son of God".

You should be open about it because when you make mystical doctrines, there is something wrong about it. Why do they make up mystical doctrine like the Trinity? And they used this doctrine to persecute Christians who did not accept this doctrine. The trinity is divisive doctrine and being a stumbling block to many, many believers.

There is nothing wrong with divisive stumblingblocks when they are true.

• 1Cr 1:23 - But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
  
  Luk 12:51 - Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

Good word sinthesis

 

[watchman F]

I'd like to pose a question for you guys since this thread is new.

If there is one God, then who was Jesus?


These trinity discussions get pretty hairy,

I do not think elijah is promoting the trinity but Oneness.

#1 The Father is God, Jesus is God, The Holy Spirit is God.
#2 However Jesus Christ is also the Father and the Father is the Holy Spirit.
#3 In other words there is one God the Father, who came in a body (the Son) and who is the Eternal Spirit (the Holy Spirit). So we teach that the Father came in the flesh as Jesus, and is a Spirit ''The Holy Spirit''.
#4 So it is similar to the Trinity doctrine in that we have 3 who are one, but Oneness doctrine says that the 3 ''persons'' are not separate, but actually the same 1, who is God.

I think your question should read Danus.

I the only true God is the Father, and Jesus was not god the Father in the flesh, then who was Jesus?

God cannot be an answer.