"I and the Father are One."

[francisdesales]

Im with you there 'francisdesales' , but I have seen this discussion go around and around in circles before

The trick is to take what we get from Scriptures and rule out possible explanations regarding the Father and the Son's relationship. The bible rules out the Father as the Son - just by the very fact of the existence of "Father" and "Son".

Regards

 

[zionwarrior]

Unfortunately the standpoint of many trinitarians is because with God, all things are possible so God can be both Father and Son, God can be whomever he pleases and where ever he pleases at the same time.

My argument is, why would God introduce a concept so difficult to understand. He uses the Father Son relationship because we can understand it in the context of our lives. So if he didn't intend us to understand the relationship between himself and Jesus as Father and Son, why did he use it in the first place?

Trinitarians keep using the scripture 'I and the father are one' which can mean different things to different people. I understand it to mean that Jesus and God are of 'One Accord'

 

[francisdesales]

My argument is, why would God introduce a concept so difficult to understand.

"Introduce" a concept???

I see it as God revealing something about Himself, this relationship between Father and Son. We use human words to attempt to explain this relationship, but the "concept" is what it is - since we cannot experience directly the relationship between Father and Son except by analogy using human words and concepts.

Naturally, it will be complicated because we have precious little in created life that even remotely mimics God and Who He is.

He uses the Father Son relationship because we can understand it in the context of our lives. So if he didn't intend us to understand the relationship between himself and Jesus as Father and Son, why did he use it in the first place?

I agree, but it is analogy.

Trinitarians keep using the scripture 'I and the father are one' which can mean different things to different people. I understand it to mean that Jesus and God are of 'One Accord'

God has one will. Yes. Jesus and the Father have the Divine Will and it is one.

Regards

 

[zionwarrior]

I was involved in a somewhat heated debate at :
Jesus is God

Its funny, when I entered the discussion and sugested that Jesus wasn't God, the initial comment was:

The intepretations that non-Christians give to scripture are not particularly valid or legitimate.

 

[zionwarrior]

A concept, yes, "unit of knowledge"
The Father son concept.

An analogy perhaps, a metaphor ... indeed.

 

[zionwarrior]

I guess my frustration lies in the fact that as a teacher, with an underlying understanding of 'communication psychology' , I see experts in theology trying to prove a point without actually considering or indeed posessing the skills required to convey the message successfully.

They know what they are trying to say, they just dont know how to present it in a way that is palatable to the 'common man'