"I and the Father are One."

[Mysteryman]

Jesus is clearly God...I don't even see a need to argue it...

Do you believe that Jesus Christ was or was not a Prophet ?

 

[Oats]

Jesus is clearly God...I don't even see a need to argue it...

Do you believe that Jesus Christ was or was not a Prophet ?

He was the greatest prophet...and the only begotten son of God. Therefore if he is begotten of God...than he is a God...And there can't be two God...so I think Jesus is God.

I'm a trinitarian btw

 

[Mysteryman]

Jesus is clearly God...I don't even see a need to argue it...

Do you believe that Jesus Christ was or was not a Prophet ?

He was the greatest prophet...and the only begotten son of God. Therefore if he is begotten of God...than he is a God...And there can't be two God...so I think Jesus is God.

I'm a trinitarian btw

Hi

Here is the reason I asked. If Jesus Christ was a Prophet, and you say that you do believe him to be a Prophet, of which I agree. Then this mere fact shows us that he is not God, because of this fact.

A Prophet speaks for God. If Jesus Christ was God, he then would speak for himself .

A Prophet receives a revealing from God , and the words a Prophet speaks must come to pass, and it is God that must bring it to pass. If Jesus Christ was God, there would be no need to receive a revealing, and thus this would negate him being a Prophet of God.

And again, I agree that Jesus Christ was a Prophet of God, thus telling any logical mind, that he was not God, but a messenger , as well as the only begotten Son of God, as well as a Prophet of / from God.

Also, If Jesus Christ was God, then after his baptism, he would have no need to receive the Spirit of God upon him. Everywhere in scripture, a Prophet receives the Spirit of God upon them. Matt. 3:16
But this then would be a false statement from within scripture, because if he was God, then he also was the Spirit of God.

BTW -you say you are trinitarian, but you can change :amen

 

[Pard]

Jesus is like a prophet. A prophet speaks on God's behalf, as you said MM. It would be hard to tell the difference between the guy who speaks for God and God Himself if they both looked the same, wouldn't it? Jesus is prophet-like, but not a prophet.

 

[Oats]

So if I was the spokesman,owner, and owner of the same company....That wouldn't mean I'd have to surrender any one of those titles. People have such a huge issue with this

 

[Mysteryman]

Jesus is like a prophet. A prophet speaks on God's behalf, as you said MM. It would be hard to tell the difference between the guy who speaks for God and God Himself if they both looked the same, wouldn't it? Jesus is prophet-like, but not a prophet.

Hi Pard :

Mark 6:4 - 6

Matt.10:40 - 41

Matt. 11:25

Matt. 12:17 - 20

John 19:10 and 11

Matt. 13:57

Matt. 21:11

John 9:17

 

[Mysteryman]

So if I was the spokesman,owner, and owner of the same company....That wouldn't mean I'd have to surrender any one of those titles. People have such a huge issue with this

Hi Oats

John 14:24 - "He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me"

 

[Oats]

So if I was the spokesman,owner, and owner of the same company....That wouldn't mean I'd have to surrender any one of those titles. People have such a huge issue with this

Hi Oats

John 14:24 - "He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me"

That doesn't matter...you're applying human logic to God design

 

[Mysteryman]

So if I was the spokesman,owner, and owner of the same company....That wouldn't mean I'd have to surrender any one of those titles. People have such a huge issue with this

Hi Oats

John 14:24 - "He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me"

That doesn't matter...you're applying human logic to God design

Hi Oats :

Your saying that what is said within scripture does not matter ? Oh my !

 

[Drew]

Here is the reason I asked. If Jesus Christ was a Prophet, and you say that you do believe him to be a Prophet, of which I agree. Then this mere fact shows us that he is not God, because of this fact.

A Prophet speaks for God. If Jesus Christ was God, he then would speak for himself .

No. You are making up your own criteria and then using those criteria to support your conclusion.

There is simply no Biblical reason to exclude the possibility that a human person can both be a prophet who speaks for God the Father and also be a "divine" person - a person who is fundamentally a person of a Trinity.

If you can make the case Biblically, yes Biblically, that a prophet cannot also possess "God-hood", then you would have an argument.

But I am certain you will not succeed in making such a case.

 

[Drew]

John 14:24 - "He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me"

There is no argument here - you have just posted a verse.

Please make an actual argument - please tell us why this statement supports your contention that Jesus is not a "divine" person - a person who embodies God-hood.

 

[Mysteryman]

John 14:24 - "He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me"

There is no argument here - you have just posted a verse.

Please make an actual argument - please tell us why this statement supports your contention that Jesus is not a "divine" person - a person who embodies God-hood.

Jesus Christ is divine = god like, not God ! But so are Christians divine = god like - II Peter 1:3 and 4

The word - "divine" is the greek word - "theios", which means = god like

Jesus the Christ is 1. the son of man --- 2. The Son of the living God

This verse John 14:24 refers to Jesus the Christ as a Prophet of God.

 

[Mysteryman]

Here is the reason I asked. If Jesus Christ was a Prophet, and you say that you do believe him to be a Prophet, of which I agree. Then this mere fact shows us that he is not God, because of this fact.

A Prophet speaks for God. If Jesus Christ was God, he then would speak for himself .

No. You are making up your own criteria and then using those criteria to support your conclusion.

There is simply no Biblical reason to exclude the possibility that a human person can both be a prophet who speaks for God the Father and also be a "divine" person - a person who is fundamentally a person of a Trinity.

If you can make the case Biblically, yes Biblically, that a prophet cannot also possess "God-hood", then you would have an argument.

But I am certain you will not succeed in making such a case.

No Drew, you are in error. What I said in my post is supported not only by scripture, but by the Spirit of a sound mind. One can not be a Prophet of God and also God, that is totally illogical and is not supported by scripture, nor sound mind !

 

[Drew]

Jesus Christ is divine = god like, not God ! But so are Christians divine = god like - II Peter 1:3 and 4

The word - "divine" is the greek word - "theios", which means = god like

Jesus the Christ is 1. the son of man --- 2. The Son of the living God

This verse John 14:24 refers to Jesus the Christ as a Prophet of God.

I was worried you would do this.

Forget that I ever used the word "divine".

I see no actual case from you that the assertion that Jesus was a prophet (and we agree on this) means that He cannot be of the same "God-essence" as the God the Father.

In short, you have made no case that Jesus cannot be both a prophet and part of the Trinity.

 

[Drew]

No Drew, you are in error. What I said in my post is supported not only by scripture, but by the Spirit of a sound mind. One can not be a Prophet of God and also God, that is totally illogical and is not supported by scripture, nor sound mind !

You are avoiding your responsibilities to actually defend your postion Biblically. What you have done is invented your own "rule" that "God in the Flesh" cannot also be a prophet. You then use your own invention to "justify" your position that since Jesus is a prophet, He cannot also be a member of the Trinity.

I will repeat: There is simply no Biblical reason to exclude the possibility that a human person can both be a prophet who speaks for God the Father and also be a person of a Trinity.

 

[Drew]

MM and I have been down this road before, but for the sake of the other readers, please consider the following.

Let's take MM's position and assume that Jesus is not "God in the flesh". And presumably, this same Jesus knows that He is not God in the flesh.

Now consider this statement from the book of Ruth:

"May the LORD reward your work, and your wages be full from the LORD, the God of Israel, under whose wings you have come to seek refuge."

Now consider this statement from Jesus who, according to MM knows that He is not "God in the flesh" (I am going to assume that MM believes that Jesus knows this):

Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.

Note the obvious: Jesus refers to Himself as the agent that wants to gather Israel "under His wings".

Now let's think for a moment. Jesus knows the Old Testament inside and out.

Would Jesus place Himself in the role of the God of Israel as "mother hen" if He (Jesus) did not believe that He was the embodiment of the God of Israel? Let the reader judge how likely that is.

This is what MM would have you believe - that Jesus effectively "misleads" his audience by setting Himself in the role of the God of Israel, yet all the while knowing that He (Jesus) was not the God of Israel.

How likely is that?

 

[Mysteryman]

MM and I have been down this road before, but for the sake of the other readers, please consider the following.

Let's take MM's position and assume that Jesus is not "God in the flesh". And presumably, this same Jesus knows that He is not God in the flesh.

Now consider this statement from the book of Ruth:

"May the LORD reward your work, and your wages be full from the LORD, the God of Israel, under whose wings you have come to seek refuge."

Now consider this statement from Jesus who, according to MM knows that He is not "God in the flesh" (I am going to assume that MM believes that Jesus knows this):

Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
When a Prophet of God speaks for God, he speaks as if God is doing the actual speaking. Just go and check out Moses if you do not believe me ! - MM
Note the obvious: Jesus refers to Himself as the agent that wants to gather Israel "under His wings".

Now let's think for a moment. Jesus knows the Old Testament inside and out.

Would Jesus place Himself in the role of the God of Israel as "mother hen" if He (Jesus) did not believe that He was the embodiment of the God of Israel? Let the reader judge how likely that is.

This is what MM would have you believe - that Jesus effectively "misleads" his audience by setting Himself in the role of the God of Israel, yet all the while knowing that He (Jesus) was not the God of Israel.

How likely is that?

 

[Drew]

MM: you are simply taking it upon yourself to define the concept of "prophet" so that it excludes the possibility that a prophet cannot also be God in the flesh.

The fact that Moses spoke for God, and was not himself "God", does not mean that Jesus cannot speak for God the Father and yet also be a "God the Son" member of a Trinity.

You are avoiding your responsibilities - you need to actually defend your view that the categories of "prophet" and "God in the flesh" are mutually exclusive.

 

[Mysteryman]

Here Drew, let me help you out.

Exodus 8:1 - "Let my people go, that they may serve me"

 

[Drew]

Here Drew, let me help you out.

Exodus 8:1 - "Let my people go, that they may serve me"

You have this habit of presenting verses and not making an argument.

How does this statement rule out the possibility that Jesus can be both "prophet" and "God in the flesh"?