I come quickly...said 2,000 years ago?

[researcher]

The generation of the fig tree...wouuldn't that mean the siinful human race?


And what does the wailing wall have to do with this?

Mar 11:11 And Jesus entered into Jerusalem, and into the temple: and when he had looked round about upon all things, and now the eventide was come, he went out unto Bethany with the twelve.
Mar 11:12 And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry:
Mar 11:13 And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.
Mar 11:14 And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it.
Mar 11:15 And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves;
Mar 11:16 And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple.
Mar 11:17 And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.
Mar 11:18 And the scribes and chief priests heard it, and sought how they might destroy him: for they feared him, because all the people was astonished at his doctrine.
Mar 11:19 And when even was come, he went out of the city.
Mar 11:20 And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.
Mar 11:21 And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away.

Fig tree? Jerusalem I believe. No fruit was found in her. Lol.

 

[NIGHTMARE]

The generation of the fig tree...wouuldn't that mean the siinful human race?


And what does the wailing wall have to do with this?

You kidding me right????????????????

Christ told you to learn what the parable of the fig tree is.....

Matthew 24:32 "Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:"

The nation of Israel re-formed in 1948 when the good and the bad fig returned to the land....SO no,,its not the sinful human generation,,,it is the peopl ethat will be living during the time these events take place,,,,,it also has to do with the garden and the fig orchard from the beginning...(for later)

Many say that Matthew 24 is speaking of the destrucion that Titus caused in 70 ad,,,,,but Christ said there will not be one stone on another......Well there are still stones on another,,,,,so christ was not speaking about the destruction of Titus,,but he was speaking of a coming destruction that would totally obliterate Jerusalem (see Zecheriah 14).....The wailing wall is part of the Old Jerusalem that still stands....

 

[RND]

It's still people God was talking to. If God was talking to himself I could understand. But, he was talking to people. So, the angel said, "don't worry about it Daniel, it's way in the future."

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Gen 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

Wow! just two little verses and the preterist doctrine is shot down.

Or reckon God was talking to himself here as well?

You mean Adam didn't die the same day? Guess God got that one wrong... Wait if God got something wrong then :o .... Lol.

No, Adam didn't die that day. He lived 930 years in fact. Yet Peter tells us a day with the Lord is like a thousand years. Thus Adam did in fact die in time frame in which the Lord considers a day.

 

[researcher]

No, Adam didn't die that day. He lived 930 years in fact. Yet Peter tells us a day with the Lord is like a thousand years. Thus Adam did in fact die in time frame in which the Lord considers a day.

Adam was perfect before he ate. When he ate he sinned, thus dying spiritually (same earth day).
And yes, he also died within the time frame of one of God's days. And since he was a son of God...

 

[turnorburn]

2 Peter 3

1 - This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in [both] which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2 - That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3 - Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 - And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of the creation.
5 - For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 - Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 - But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 - But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 - The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 - But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 - [Seeing] then [that] all these things shall be dissolved, what manner [of persons] ought ye to be in [all] holy conversation and godliness,
12 - Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 - Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14 - Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
15 - And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 - As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 - Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know [these things] before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18 - But grow in grace, and [in] the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him [be] glory both now and for ever. Amen.

 

[samuel]

Matt 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.Matt 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

I don't see any mention of the Temple mount in Matt. 24. The so called waling wall, is not part of the Temple or its buildings, it is part of the Temple platform.
Now just how much of this is origional, is difficuot to say. There have been several reconstructions/repairs to the Temple mount since AD 70.

 

[wavy]

ummmmmmmm

Dont you know that one of the main reasons people go to Jerusalem is to see the wailing wall......If you do a little research you will see these stones were huge 30-40 feet easy...(in our measurments)

And your point is?

The Roman General Titus did come up against Jerusalem in 70 A.D.,,,,,,, and destroyed the city......
But if you think that this destruction is the destruction Christ is speaking of you are sadly mistaken friend....

I don't see why. You'll forgive me if I don't just take your word for it.

This is refering to total and ultimate destructing caused by the return of Christ,,,,not some pety human.....

A pity that no one told this to Luke in his version of the prediction...(Lk xxi.20-4)

I would suggest reading Zecheriah 14......

I don't see what Zechariah has to do with this, especially the verse you quoted.

yup and Christ aint returned yet,,,what does that tell you about 70 ad??????????

That Jesus was wrong, of course.


Finis,
Eric

 

[RND]

Adam was perfect before he ate. When he ate he sinned, thus dying spiritually (same earth day). And yes, he also died within the time frame of one of God's days. And since he was a son of God...

If Adam, and thus man, died spiritually that day how is it that the Bible is full of "spiritual" people and was in fact "God breathed?" No "Spirit" in the men who wrote the Torah and Tanakh?

 

[wavy]

Adam was perfect before he ate. When he ate he sinned, thus dying spiritually (same earth day). And yes, he also died within the time frame of one of God's days. And since he was a son of God...

If Adam, and thus man, died spiritually that day how is it that the Bible is full of "spiritual" people and was in fact "God breathed?" No "Spirit" in the men who wrote the Torah and Tanakh?

To put this to rest, 'in the day' is an idiom meaning 'at the time', which could be a lengthy period of time.

Nb iii.1 uses this same idiom to cover the revelation at Sinai...Israel was encamped there for about a year. 'In the day' does not delimit a 24hr period.


Finis,
Eric

 

[researcher]

Adam was perfect before he ate. When he ate he sinned, thus dying spiritually (same earth day). And yes, he also died within the time frame of one of God's days. And since he was a son of God...

If Adam, and thus man, died spiritually that day how is it that the Bible is full of "spiritual" people and was in fact "God breathed?" No "Spirit" in the men who wrote the Torah and Tanakh?

Thou shalt surely die - מות תמות moth tamuth; Literally, a death thou shalt die; or, dying thou shalt die. Thou shalt not only die spiritually, by losing the life of God, but from that moment thou shalt become mortal, and shalt continue in a dying state till thou die.

Adam Clarke's Commentary on the Bible
Adam Clarke, LL.D., F.S.A., (1715-1832)

for in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die; or "in dying, die" (z); which denotes the certainty of it, as our version expresses it; and may have regard to more deaths than one; not only a corporeal one, which in some sense immediately took place, man became at once a mortal creature,
Moreover, a spiritual or moral death immediately ensued; he lost his original righteousness, in which he was created; the image of God in him was deformed; the powers and faculties of his soul were corrupted, and he became dead in sins and trespasses; the consequence of which, had it not been for the interposition of a surety and Saviour, who engaged to make satisfaction to law and justice, must have been eternal death, or an everlasting separation from God, to him and all his posterity; for the wages of sin is death, even death eternal, Rom_6:23. So the Jews (a) interpret this of death, both in this world and in the world to come.

John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
Dr. John Gill (1690-1771)

 

[RND]

Thou shalt surely die - מות תמות moth tamuth; Literally, a death thou shalt die; or, dying thou shalt die. Thou shalt not only die spiritually, by losing the life of God, but from that moment thou shalt become mortal, and shalt continue in a dying state till thou die.

"In dying thou shalt die." Thus, it's like a cancer patient saying to the doc, "How much time do I have."

To illustrate it further, so it can be even more clear, a newborn baby, when it takes it's first breath begins both the process of living and dying. God was announcing to Adam and Eve that they had cut themselves off from the source of eternal life, not the other way around.

 

[turnorburn]

This seems to be an age old problem derived from preconceived ideas, we don't think the way
God thinks.


turnorburn

 

[researcher]

Thou shalt surely die - מות תמות moth tamuth; Literally, a death thou shalt die; or, dying thou shalt die. Thou shalt not only die spiritually, by losing the life of God, but from that moment thou shalt become mortal, and shalt continue in a dying state till thou die.

"In dying thou shalt die." Thus, it's like a cancer patient saying to the doc, "How much time do I have."

To illustrate it further, so it can be even more clear, a newborn baby, when it takes it's first breath begins both the process of living and dying. God was announcing to Adam and Eve that they had cut themselves off from the source of eternal life, not the other way around.

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

I died, but, I'm not actually dead.

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

1Jn 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

You can be "dead" and not actually be "dead" in the physical sense. Adam became "dead" when he sinned. He physically died much later.

At any rate, it hasn't shown that Jesus meant a future generation when he said that "this generation shall not pass..."

Luk 17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.

Was he talking about our generation there?

 

[whirlwind]

At any rate, it hasn't shown that Jesus meant a future generation when he said that "this generation shall not pass..."

Luk 17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.

Was he talking about our generation there?

It is both generations Jeff. What happened to Him in that generation will again happen to the man child in this/their generation. He and the man child are...the Son of man.

• 17:24-25 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in His day. But first must He suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation. And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
  
  17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

He will be revealed in the man child. That revelation happens at the end of days.

 

[NIGHTMARE]

ummmmmmmm

Dont you know that one of the main reasons people go to Jerusalem is to see the wailing wall......If you do a little research you will see these stones were huge 30-40 feet easy...(in our measurments)

And your point is?

The Roman General Titus did come up against Jerusalem in 70 A.D.,,,,,,, and destroyed the city......
But if you think that this destruction is the destruction Christ is speaking of you are sadly mistaken friend....

I don't see why. You'll forgive me if I don't just take your word for it.

[quote:23esn4t5]This is refering to total and ultimate destructing caused by the return of Christ,,,,not some pety human.....

A pity that no one told this to Luke in his version of the prediction url=http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2021:20-24&version=ESV]Lk xxi.20-4[/url])

I would suggest reading Zecheriah 14......

I don't see what Zechariah has to do with this, especially the verse you quoted.

yup and Christ aint returned yet,,,what does that tell you about 70 ad??????????

That Jesus was wrong, of course.


Finis,
Eric[/quote:23esn4t5]

That Jesus was wrong, of course.

What a joke,,,,,SO you really think you have the mental/credentials to say God is wrong????????

I don't see what Zechariah has to do with this, especially the verse you quoted.

Of course you dont,,,,but you should since your able to correct God......

Zecheriah 14 describes the destruction and what will happen to Jerusalem,,,,,Titus and 70Ad does not even come close to the destruction that the Lord will bring,,,so for those that believe this destruction happen in 70Ad are plain WRONG.....

I don't see what Zechariah has to do with this, especially the verse you quoted.

I dont know part of Luke youre talking about,,,,your just having a little trouble understanding,,,,thats ok......Maybe when you realize you have no authority!!!!! to correct the Lord then things might fall into place..........

 

[NIGHTMARE]

Matt 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.Matt 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

I don't see any mention of the Temple mount in Matt. 24. The so called waling wall, is not part of the Temple or its buildings, it is part of the Temple platform.
Now just how much of this is origional, is difficuot to say. There have been several reconstructions/repairs to the Temple mount since AD 70.

Do you believe currently that there is no stone upon another,,,,,,if you even have to think about this question,,,,,,then 70Ad did not pruduce the destruction Christ was refering to.....

Matthew 24 holds many things that are yet to come,,,,if Christ was pointing to 70Ad then certain things would have already happened such as.....

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

and,,,

40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

 

[RND]

I died, but, I'm not actually dead.

All true. What did you die "from?"

You can be "dead" and not actually be "dead" in the physical sense. Adam became "dead" when he sinned. He physically died much later.

Really? How do you know Adam died spiritually? Does the Bible say he did - anywhere?

The fact of the matter is that Adam raised Seth who was quite a Godly man. Eve "blessed" the Lord when all her children were born. Someone without a spiritual connection to God would in no way recognize the working of God in their life. The Lord banished Adam & Eve from the garden of Eden and thus access to the tree of life. He did not abandon them.

I'd like to see you answer the first question I raised and that is: If man was left for dead spiritually how did the Bible get written?

At any rate, it hasn't shown that Jesus meant a future generation when he said that "this generation shall not pass..."

Luk 17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.

Was he talking about our generation there?

No.

 

[Orion]

For the sake of argument, I will post as if Genesis 2 were literal (which I don't believe). Regardless of whether or not Adam "sinned", the act itself did not cause him to eventually die. In fact, if he had never "sinned", it was completely possible for him to still have died, physically. Where people have "glazed over eyes" about this is [not JUST that], but the thought that a physical death is somehow relevant when the spirit continues to exist.

As for this topic (original thread), I have read the responses, . . . but it is ridiculous to believe that what was being said was for some unknown time in the future when it would have made no sense to them [disciples] and to them, they would [and were] expecting it to be literal FOR them.

 

[Vic C.]

This is not a Genesis debate, this is a discussion concerning whether or not certain prophecies pointed to the first century or sometime in our future.

I'm also moving this to the End Times forum.

I am also reminding you all to keep to derogatory comments to yourself. If you can't discuss things like mature Christian adults, then refrain from posting.

BTW, samuel, you last post...

 

[unclejed]

Jed, . . . it is clear that Jesus was speaking in THEIR time frame in mind. They perceived it as meaning soon, within their lifetime. "A day is as one thousand" doesn't work here.

Yes it does "work" you just don't understand. I would never propose to spesk for Jesus as you did.