I come quickly...said 2,000 years ago?

[Orion]

You just DID "speak for Jesus". There is NOTHING to suggest this "a day is as a thousand years" used in this context!

 

[researcher]

I died, but, I'm not actually dead.

All true. What did you die "from?"

You can be "dead" and not actually be "dead" in the physical sense. Adam became "dead" when he sinned. He physically died much later.

Really? How do you know Adam died spiritually? Does the Bible say he did - anywhere?

The fact of the matter is that Adam raised Seth who was quite a Godly man. Eve "blessed" the Lord when all her children were born. Someone without a spiritual connection to God would in no way recognize the working of God in their life. The Lord banished Adam & Eve from the garden of Eden and thus access to the tree of life. He did not abandon them.

I'd like to see you answer the first question I raised and that is: If man was left for dead spiritually how did the Bible get written?

[quote:33ys2vzv]At any rate, it hasn't shown that Jesus meant a future generation when he said that "this generation shall not pass..."

Luk 17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.

Was he talking about our generation there?

No.[/quote:33ys2vzv]

How do you know Adam died spiritually? Does the Bible say he did - anywhere?

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

He would be dead in his trespass, which was actually disobedience.

Second question I'll get to after work.

 

[researcher]

At any rate, it hasn't shown that Jesus meant a future generation when he said that "this generation shall not pass..."

Luk 17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.

Was he talking about our generation there?

It is both generations Jeff. What happened to Him in that generation will again happen to the man child in this/their generation. He and the man child are...the Son of man.

• 17:24-25 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in His day. But first must He suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation. And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
  
  17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

He will be revealed in the man child. That revelation happens at the end of days.

Lol. I can't buy into the David Eells interpretation of the "manchild." ;) :D

 

[RND]

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Subject to "eternal" death because of trespasses and sins. Trespasses and sins of what?

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

Made alive, to eternal life, with Christ.

He would be dead in his trespass, which was actually disobedience.

Disobedience to what?

Second question I'll get to after work.

Outstanding.

 

[Vic C.]

:angry2 No more Genesis talk or else I slam serve both you with that volley ball!

 

[NIGHTMARE]

For the sake of argument, I will post as if Genesis 2 were literal (which I don't believe). Regardless of whether or not Adam "sinned", the act itself did not cause him to eventually die. In fact, if he had never "sinned", it was completely possible for him to still have died, physically. Where people have "glazed over eyes" about this is [not JUST that], but the thought that a physical death is somehow relevant when the spirit continues to exist.

As for this topic (original thread), I have read the responses, . . . but it is ridiculous to believe that what was being said was for some unknown time in the future when it would have made no sense to them [disciples] and to them, they would [and were] expecting it to be literal FOR them.

I wont go into details because this aint the topic,,,,,,1st Adam sinned in Gen 3 not 2,,,,and the sin caused him to die,,,God said you will not live a day (1000 years is a day to God) Adam died at 930,,,,he did not make a thousand years so indeed he died the same day.....

 

[NIGHTMARE]

:angry2 No more Genesis talk or else I slam serve both you with that volley ball!

It seems like alot of the debates go back to Genesis,,,,,thats were the trouble/troubles start.....

 

[RND]

:angry2 No more Genesis talk or else I slam serve both you with that volley ball!

Who's doing this?

 

[Orion]

For the sake of argument, I will post as if Genesis 2 were literal (which I don't believe). Regardless of whether or not Adam "sinned", the act itself did not cause him to eventually die. In fact, if he had never "sinned", it was completely possible for him to still have died, physically. Where people have "glazed over eyes" about this is [not JUST that], but the thought that a physical death is somehow relevant when the spirit continues to exist.

As for this topic (original thread), I have read the responses, . . . but it is ridiculous to believe that what was being said was for some unknown time in the future when it would have made no sense to them [disciples] and to them, they would [and were] expecting it to be literal FOR them.

I wont go into details because this aint the topic,,,,,,1st Adam sinned in Gen 3 not 2,,,,and the sin caused him to die,,,God said you will not live a day (1000 years is a day to God) Adam died at 930,,,,he did not make a thousand years so indeed he died the same day.....

As we aren't discussing Genesis anymore in THIS topic, you didn't address what I said above. But if you wish to start a thread on this, I will tell you what I meant.

As per this topic, (as in the "Adam living 930 years") the "a day is as a thousand years" does not work for the problem with Mark 13:30. The relevant words are "this generation" and "until all these things". Other verses are equally as siginificant to that period of time.

 

[NIGHTMARE]

For the sake of argument, I will post as if Genesis 2 were literal (which I don't believe). Regardless of whether or not Adam "sinned", the act itself did not cause him to eventually die. In fact, if he had never "sinned", it was completely possible for him to still have died, physically. Where people have "glazed over eyes" about this is [not JUST that], but the thought that a physical death is somehow relevant when the spirit continues to exist.

As for this topic (original thread), I have read the responses, . . . but it is ridiculous to believe that what was being said was for some unknown time in the future when it would have made no sense to them [disciples] and to them, they would [and were] expecting it to be literal FOR them.

I wont go into details because this aint the topic,,,,,,1st Adam sinned in Gen 3 not 2,,,,and the sin caused him to die,,,God said you will not live a day (1000 years is a day to God) Adam died at 930,,,,he did not make a thousand years so indeed he died the same day.....

As we aren't discussing Genesis anymore in THIS topic, you didn't address what I said above. But if you wish to start a thread on this, I will tell you what I meant.

As per this topic, (as in the "Adam living 930 years") the "a day is as a thousand years" does not work for the problem with Mark 13:30. The relevant words are "this generation" and "until all these things". Other verses are equally as siginificant to that period of time.

Im not seeing the confusion in Mark 13:30.......Lets look at the scripture,,,,,

Mark 13:30 "Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done."

The generation Christ is refering to is Generation of the fig tree.......Again this Generation begun in 1948.....Look at the topic and subject......

"Tell us, when shall these things be????? and what shall be the sign of "Thy coming,????? and the end of the world."?????? (world should read age)

Then Christ proceeds to tell them........

Why would anyone need to incorporate 1000 years =1 day here??????? It has nothing to do with anything....

Christ is simply saying that all these prophecys will take place before the end of the Generation of the fig tree,,,thats this generation friend..............

 

[Orion]

There is no support for Israel as "the fig tree". There is nothing that says that Israel had to become a nation before the "end of the world". It is mentally written in because what was supposed to "soon take place" didn't. There are plenty of scriptures that plainly state that the contemporaries hearing the words believed it was for them at that time. He's talking about the most ominous future, awful things to come, . . and we are to believe that Jesus was speaking impercisely about "the end of the world". It makes little sense for Jesus to tells them [his disciples], in Mark 13:37, to "be on alert", when he knew that "these things" would not be fulfilled for nearly 2,000 years later.

I realize that I won't change you in your futurist beliefs, but I have enjoyed the debate.

 

[AAA]

Thus, biblical time frames or predictions that involved God are completely uninterpretable, and therefore meaningless. This also means that God cannot or does not, when he communicates with us via his inspired written works, take into account the only time we can perceive: our time.

This thread does a wonderful job of making my point.

 

[NIGHTMARE]

There is no support for Israel as "the fig tree". There is nothing that says that Israel had to become a nation before the "end of the world". It is mentally written in because what was supposed to "soon take place" didn't. There are plenty of scriptures that plainly state that the contemporaries hearing the words believed it was for them at that time. He's talking about the most ominous future, awful things to come, . . and we are to believe that Jesus was speaking impercisely about "the end of the world". It makes little sense for Jesus to tells them [his disciples], in Mark 13:37, to "be on alert", when he knew that "these things" would not be fulfilled for nearly 2,000 years later.

I realize that I won't change you in your futurist beliefs, but I have enjoyed the debate.

Maybe you should rty reading carefully before you render those comments,,,,from this statement its easy to see you havent done much old test reading....

There is no support for Israel as "the fig tree".

O really?????

So please read the rest of this chp before you say something else foolish......

Jeremiah 24:1 "The LORD shewed me, and, behold, two baskets of figs were set before the temple of the LORD, after that Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon had carried away captive Jeconiah the son of Jehoiakim king of Judah, and the princes of Judah, with the carpenters and smiths, from Jerusalem, and had brought them to Babylon."

Jeremiah 24:2 "One basket had very good figs, even like the figs that are first ripe: and the other basket had very naughty figs, which could not be eaten, they were so bad."

Jeremiah 24:3 ???????????????????

 

[NIGHTMARE]

Thus, biblical time frames or predictions that involved God are completely uninterpretable, and therefore meaningless. This also means that God cannot or does not, when he communicates with us via his inspired written works, take into account the only time we can perceive: our time.

This thread does a wonderful job of making my point.

I think it has more to do with people not following subject matter....

 

[Orion]

Yes, NIGHTMARE,. . . . . really. Even IF I were to concede to this, it would just be another thing that didn't happen to those who heard it, which were supposed to see ALL these things happen in their lifetime.

One last thing on this "fig tree" thing, . . . supposing YOU are right, how long IS a "generation"?

Again, from the language, it is clear that Mark 13:30 was being spoken to the contemporaries of that day. Others are equally as obvious.

 

[Godfrey]

If you skip Mark 13.31 when reading, you have:

I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened ... No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. - NIV

It's clear from the parallel Matthew passage that the disciples had asked two questions - when will the temple be destroyed? and what are the signs of your return and the end of the age? - and probably thought the two events were contemporaneous. But Mark 13.30 and 13.32 use the Greek for these and that, which - I'm told, I'm no Greek scholar - carry the same distinction as in English: this/these near at hand, that further away.

So Jesus' answer is: the near-at-hand things, the destruction of the temple, will be accomplished within a generation, the far-off things - His return - only the Father knows.

 

[Orion]

The topic is "the end of the world", not "the destruction of the temple" alone. I'm not sure if one can openly state this (speaking of one thing now and ALL the rest at some undisclosed point in the future) with any credulity. You still have the "this generation will not pass away before ALL these things be fulfilled".

 

[Godfrey]

ALL these

Quite: ALL these. Not including that.

I just offered the idea as a possible clarification. I hasten to add it's not original: I found it in a commentary which was a set text for school exams 40 years ago

 

[Orion]

I see. Thanks.

 

[NIGHTMARE]

Yes, NIGHTMARE,. . . . . really. Even IF I were to concede to this, it would just be another thing that didn't happen to those who heard it, which were supposed to see ALL these things happen in their lifetime.

One last thing on this "fig tree" thing, . . . supposing YOU are right, how long IS a "generation"?

Again, from the language, it is clear that Mark 13:30 was being spoken to the contemporaries of that day. Others are equally as obvious.

One last thing on this "fig tree" thing, . . . supposing YOU are right, how long IS a "generation"?

Well at least your asking,,,insteed of concluding based off the lack thereof....

Why suppose im right????? I am right....

Even IF I were to concede to this, it would just be another thing that didn't happen to those who heard it, which were supposed to see ALL these things happen in their lifetime.

NO NO NO you are making it harder for yourself then it has to be......

Orion if you want to understand it then read it,,,,,



There are 3 different documentations in the bible 1 of them is 40 years,,,remember the children wonder the wilderness 40 years until the generation passed....But if you trying to add 1948 + how long a generation is,,,then well,,,,,welcome to the big leagues.........