I have a question :)

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Free said:
The fact will always remain that Islam is Christian heresy.
Very true Free...and Christianity is Islamic heresy....but that get's us nowhere...objectively....

Noctural_Principal_X said:
Another thing to consider is the fact that Christianity is the only religion that in its roots is not a religion. What I mean is it is a faith that is about a personal relationship with God…not “following a set of rules.â€Â

The problem here is quantifying, or even qualifying, the personal relationship with God. You claim to have it (not a unique claim, as most religions claim the same thing). However, objectively, no one can truely know whether you, Paul, Peter, Mohammed or Hari Krishna actually have it.

Unless you witness it yourself (of which I cannot comment other than I haven't myself) it is empty testimony and proof.

It sounds nice, yes, but offers nothing towards the veracity of the theological truths your purport to have.
 
thinkerman

I think that you do not understand the difference between piety/ritual and a true relationship with God.

You really think that you are makine these grand and logical arguements, but you are missing key elements of understanding here, and your arguements are really very weak indeed.

It would be like your arguing with me about the taist of my grandmothers apple pie, never having taisted it and yet you keep telling me what it taist like.

I have taisted the pie I know what it taist like, so I am in a possition to tell you about the pie. You are in none to tell me about the pie you have not taisted.

Christianity is the same way, those like you who have not taisted in the grace of God through God have not place to or ability to really talk about it. And especially not to those who have taisted of God Grace in Jesus.

You are arguing about a pie that you have never taisted.
 
Christianity is the same way, those like you who have not taisted in the grace of God through God have not place to or ability to really talk about it. And especially not to those who have taisted of God Grace in Jesus.

As an ex-Christian, I can safely say that Thinkerman's arguments look pretty sound. By the way, the Pietasters are a great band.
 
Henry said:
thinkerman

I think that you do not understand the difference between piety/ritual and a true relationship with God.

You really think that you are makine these grand and logical arguements, but you are missing key elements of understanding here, and your arguements are really very weak indeed.

It would be like your arguing with me about the taist of my grandmothers apple pie, never having taisted it and yet you keep telling me what it taist like.

I have taisted the pie I know what it taist like, so I am in a possition to tell you about the pie. You are in none to tell me about the pie you have not taisted.

Christianity is the same way, those like you who have not taisted in the grace of God through God have not place to or ability to really talk about it. And especially not to those who have taisted of God Grace in Jesus.

You are arguing about a pie that you have never taisted.

Imagine this scenario Henry....

Everybody in town raves about how good your Grandmother's pie is. It has won ribbons, it is in all the newspapers.....it even got the mayor elected by supporting your grandmothers recipe!

I, being ever curious, wish to try this pie. I ask around town. Everybody says I have to get it for myself. The only way to taste the pie is to ask Grandma herself.

No problem, I tell myself. I'll march right down to her house to try this magnificant pie.

Problem is, there is no one home. Everyone says this is where she lives, but there isn't even a house there. No pie, no house, no voice, nothing.

Everyone continues to rave about this pie. So I put an ad in the newspaper. "I really want to try your pie. I am one of the few in this town who hasn't tried it. Here is my address, cell phone number and email. Please, let me taste your wonderful concoction."

Nothing....no response....no house...no grandmother...no pie.

If I haven't tried it (and I certainly have asked, at least in the past), how can I comment on whether or not it is the best pie in the world? After all, everyone who says so keeps telling me the house is there, but I can't see it. How can I believe them?

Yes, your analogy is somewhat correct....only for some reason Grandma never lets me see the pie, let along taste it.

(BTW, I was Christian, and never "taisted" the pie during that time either, I simply believed it existed)

The question "Angel_Delight" must ask herself, and I'm sure you would agree, is whether she has actually ever tasted the pie....or if she has only depended on the stories of those who have claimed to.
 
Free said:
The fact will always remain that Islam is Christian heresy.

And the fact will always remain that Christianity is Islamic heresy.
 
Thinkerman,

Very true Free...and Christianity is Islamic heresy....but that get's us nowhere...objectively....

Asimov,

And the fact will always remain that Christianity is Islamic heresy.

Apparently neither of you have really thought this through. Islam didn't come into existence until more than 600 years after Christianity.

Islam is a Christian heresy, but Christianity is not, and cannot be, an Islamic heresy. And, yes, this most definitely gets us somewhere.
 
Apparently neither of you have really thought this through. Islam didn't come into existence until more than 600 years after Christianity.

Islam is a Christian heresy, but Christianity is not, and cannot be, an Islamic heresy. And, yes, this most definitely gets us somewhere.

So lets get this straight-- Christianity is older than Islam, so it must be correct. In that case, wouldn't Zorastrianism be a better religion than Christianity?
 
Chupacabra said:
Apparently neither of you have really thought this through. Islam didn't come into existence until more than 600 years after Christianity.

Islam is a Christian heresy, but Christianity is not, and cannot be, an Islamic heresy. And, yes, this most definitely gets us somewhere.

So lets get this straight-- Christianity is older than Islam, so it must be correct. In that case, wouldn't Zorastrianism be a better religion than Christianity?

What is being pointed out is that as Christianity pre-dates Islam by 600 years it cannot be a heresy of Islam.
 
What is being pointed out is that as Christianity pre-dates Islam by 600 years it cannot be a heresy of Islam.

I am aware of that, what I was more or less pointing out how ludicrous Free's last sentence, "And, yes, this most definitely gets us somewhere", was. Though not Islamic heresy, Islam's newness does not invalidate it, so indeed it gets us nowhere.
 
Chupacabra said:
What is being pointed out is that as Christianity pre-dates Islam by 600 years it cannot be a heresy of Islam.

I am aware of that, what I was more or less pointing out how ludicrous Free's last sentence, "And, yes, this most definitely gets us somewhere", was. Though not Islamic heresy, Islam's newness does not invalidate it, so indeed it gets us nowhere.

I am curious as to why you think my statement is ludicrous. You completely missed the point I was making.

The whole point of this thread is why Christianity is the one true religion over and above Islam. My argument was not that since Christianity is older it is more correct, but rather that, as is obvious to anyone who has studied Islam even to a small degree, Islam borrows many things from Christianity but rejects what they mean.

The Kor'an speaks of Christ, his virgin birth and his miracles, yet they reject the significance of those things and claim he was just another prophet. They claim he wasn't really crucified and didn't die to atone for the sins of man. The Kor'an was supposedly revealed to Muhammed by the angel Gabriel, who "just happens" to be the angel who told Mary about the child within.

Everything they claim and know of Christ, most of all of what is written if Jesus in the Kor'an comes from the Bible, yet they reject the Bible claiming, without any evidence whatsoever, that it is corrupt. Not only is it contradictory, but I would like to know how they know what Christians haven't known for 2000 years, especially when there is no evidence of such a serious claim.

The possibility is also there of a link between a heretical group of followers of Christ and Muhammed. The group, who rejected the divine origins of Christ, fled to the area in which Muhammed resided.

Anyway, you get the idea. There is too much in common for Islam to be just another religion. Islam is very much a Christian heresy.
 
Angel_Delight said:
I'm totally confused now :smt090

Muslims say Islam is the one true religion and the only way to heaven and that the quran is the true word of God because it's never been changed, where as the Bible has been.

Also they say Jesus is a prophet and we go against our religion because it says in the bible that God is one but we still pray to Jesus...

I'd be interested to hear your views and opinions

Thanks for taking the time to reply :-)

hope this will help to se Islam in the ligth of truth and not in the light of the Islamic liars

Quite a busy year for ISLAM, and now ladies and gentlemen the winner of last year’s victimisation goes to non other than ISLAM congratulation for being such violent and vicious people, I bet you will get next years noble price for promoting peace, love and understanding.

Mrs Hanifan Bibi, aged around 56, is a Pakistani woman who works as a domestic servant. Her employer, who follows that majority faith in Pakistan, (Islam) abducted her along with her husband, son and nephew on 10th January. They suspended her upside down by her feet, and beat her severely with a hot metal pope. They took her clothes off in front of her male relatives, forced her to drink wine, and filmed her. They also beat her relatives. After two days her captors took her to a police station and tried to implicate her in a case of theft. Christian lawyers in Pakistan are seeking to get justice for Hanifan. Pray that they will succeed and also for her healing from the severe physical injury and the emotional trauma. Many Christian women are domestic servants who suffer sever abuse but dare not report it for fear of further victimisation by their influential employers of the majority faith (Islam).

When MA left his old faith Islam to become a Christian, his family and friends began to monitor his every movement. They soon discovered he was going church and Bible study meetings. His family hired a group of young men to attack him and beat him up. They told him that, if he did not return to his former faith Islam, â€Ânext time we’ll kill youâ€Â

According to reports from Jordan, a Christian has been formally found guilty in a Shari’a (Islamic law) court of apostasy from Islam. It is believed to be the first time this has happened in Jordan, and thus sets an alarming precedent, previously the harassment of converts from Islam was limited to being interrogated and detained for a few days at a time. At the time of writing it is not know what sentence will be given. Shari’a prescribes not only the death sentence but also a wide variety of other sanctions to punish apostates. Some observers think the Shari’a judge was very reluctant to bring in a guilty verdict but felt he had no option.

Two churches in Palu City, central Sulawesi, Indonesia, were attacked during their evening services on Sunday 12th December. One attack was from four men on motorbikes who opened fire, the sped away, having seriously injured two people in the back row. The other attack was a bomb which seriously injured a guard, Palu police chief has since been dismissed for alleged negligence having failed to follow instructions to increase police protection at places of worship ahead of Christmas and New Year. The provincial police had ordered that all churches be guarded by two policeman uniformed and two plain-clothes policemen.

Police in the Philippines announced that they had foiled a planned suicide attack on a major Christian festival in January. Two days before the festival the police arrested 16 suspected militants and seized three homemade bombs and other weapons.
A 24 year-old man from Zamboanga City in the southern Philippines was shot by militants on 17 November 2004. They left him for dead, but he survived. The man had converted to Christianity from Islam and had been active in sharing his new faith, resulting in other members of his family becoming Christians and several death threats to himself. The victim’s older brother had also been shot at by militants a few months earlier.

Santino Garang a Sudanese Christian boy of seven, was sold to a Sudanese Arab a muslim as a slave in 1987. Through ten long years of cruel treatment Santino did not forget his Christian faith. Then one Sunday morning he heard Christians singing and left the camels he was caring for to join the worship, remembering the church services of his childhood. While he was worship some of the camels escaped. His furious master beat him brutally and then nailed him to wooden plank through his hands, knees and feet. He poured acid on Santion’s legs and left him to die. However, his master’s son brought him food and water, and after a week took him to hospital. His master had no further use for Santino because he nails driven through his knees had disabled him. He sold Santino, who was eventually able to return to his village. There the elders gave him a new name “Joseph†prayer is asked for Joseph who is still in great pain, physically and emotionally. “He bears the marks of his crucifixion in his body, and the scars of his torment in his soul.â€Â
Continue to pray for Yakup Cindilli, the Turkish Christian who was beaten into coma for distributing Bibles in the street in October 2003. At long last he is well enough to go to church again, and has spoken of how he felt GOD’S hand on him, keeping him even though the doctors in ambulance thought he would not get to hospital alive.

Pray for Christians in Iran, especially those who have come to Christ form the majority faith Islam. There is an Iranian law, which specifies a death sent4ence for those who leave the majority faith Islam, but has not been practised since 3rd December 1989. The government focus its harassment on church leaders, not on ordinary believers

On 20th December three more church properties were attacked in Mosul, Iraq. One of them had already been attacked just two weeks earlier, along with another church on the same day. Also in December at least four Iraqi Christians were abducted and killed, and a Christian doctor was shot while treating his patients he died later. On 17th January Archbishop Basile Georges Casmoussa (66) was kidnapped form outside his church in Mosul. While all Iraq citizens live with constant violence. Christians fell themselves to be at extra risk because of certain factions who resent their presence in the country.

Man y supporters have contacted Barnabas Fund to ask abut the four Iraqi Christian girls kidnapped on their way home from church by 17 men of the majority faith Islam, kept naked and repeatedly raped. The girl’s humiliation was so great that their one desire was to be dead and forgotten. (Yeah I would wish to be dead and forgotten to). Our partners in the Middle East are actively seeking news about these girls, but at the time of writing have no update on their plight.

Christians are continuing to flee Iraq in large numbers, fearing that they will never be allowed to live there in peace again. Pray for the refugees as they try to make new lives for themselves. Pray for those who remain either through commitment to their homeland or because they are too poor too leave.

It is reported that a Saudi Arabian man was arrested on 29th November 2004 for converting from Islam to Christianity Emad Alaabadi was intercepted by the religious police as he drove his children home from school. According to Saudi law, leaving Islam is a crime, which carries the death sentence. Pray for Emad who has almost certainly been severely tortured in prison, that the Lord Jesus Christ will give him grace to endure.

Christians in Egypt became so enraged at what they must endure that they demonstrated in there thousands in various Egyptian cities on 5th and 6th December 2004. The last straw, which triggered the demonstration, was apparently the news that the wife of a Coptic Orthodox priest had disappeared and converted to Islam. The woman was later returned to the community and re-affirmed her Christian faith. One of the major grievances of Egyptian Christians is the frequent abduction and forced conversion of many of their women and girls; less prominent cases rarely end as happily as this one. Young Christians men are often forced to convert to Islam by being picked up by the police and falsely accused of having illegal drugs; they are told the charges will be dropped if they convert to Islam. Other Christians are offered houses, money or jobs if they will become Muslims. Pray for justices and equality for Egyptian Christians who have lived as second-class citizens for fourteen centuries
Shalom and love in the name of YESHUA THE SON OF GOD
chana
 
Please refrain from name calling Museh. This breaches the rules of the Forum.

There is ample evidence for the fact of violence and death if people do not convert to Islam. Such is the evil that occurs in parts of the world.

This has also been a tactic of some so-called christians churches too--principally those that organised and led the "Crusades" against the Moors.

We know that the Vatican See has had a long history of torture, burning at the stake etc in order to get people to convert. Even certain protestant groups have also engaged in similar practices--such is NOT the way of the New Testament teachings of Christ and the Apostles!.

So please desist in calling people liars, lest you yourselves be found to lie also.

1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
 
Muslims always do not start the aggression and offending. You know he started.
Anyway I am sorry, Our Great prophet (PBUH) teaches us to not offend anybody even if they did. may I did not follow his teachings. may Allah forgive me.
 
Angel_Delight said:
I'm totally confused now :smt090

Muslims say Islam is the one true religion and the only way to heaven and that the quran is the true word of God because it's never been changed, where as the Bible has been.

Also they say Jesus is a prophet and we go against our religion because it says in the bible that God is one but we still pray to Jesus...

I'd be interested to hear your views and opinions

Thanks for taking the time to reply :-)

Pray to God to give you your answers...through the Bible...

It works.. :D
 
I don't understand though why God put a religious muslim man in my life if it wasn't for me to learn and possibly convert to Islam

If christianity is the right path then why didn't He put a religious christian man in my life who can help me learn more about christianity :(
 
Angel_Delight said:
I don't understand though why God put a religious muslim man in my life if it wasn't for me to learn and possibly convert to Islam

If christianity is the right path then why didn't He put a religious christian man in my life who can help me learn more about christianity :(

Angel, God did not put this man in your life so that you may convert to Islam. God put this man in your life so that you could lead him to Christ.

You don't need a Christian male to help you learn more about God. God may be using this man to teach you to trust in Him no matter what.

Delight, the true question lies in where you treasure lies. Is you desire to please the living God, YHWH, or to please yourself in this deceptive relationship. Angel, Jehovah's trying to teach you faith in all things, the question is will you listen or fall astray?

 
As a woman speaking to another woman, it is not always God that puts a man in our lives. I have had all sorts of men try to enter my life and if I had opened the door, they would have walked right in. Some of these guys were good decent men, some were real creeps, some were Christians, some were nonChristians, some were rich, some were poor, etc. The point is when you are a young single woman, there are plenty of men to show interest, and it is the woman that chooses which man she wants to allow in her life. So I would be careful about saying it was God that put him there. Also, if you consider yourself a Christian, I would consider it as playing with fire to date any man that is not a Christian, not just a muslim. Please pray hard and seek God, and He will show you the way. Also, open your eyes and the faiths will speak for themselves in their actions.