I have a question :)

[Asimov]

I have yet to see anyone outright denounce any events depicted in the bible that caused the death of thousands of innocent people in the name of Yahweh. I also have yet to see anyone outright denounce the Crusades, and the Spanish Inquisition.

Why should one denounce such activities?

Because they are no different than terrorist activities causing the death of innocent people.

 

[paisley]

If that is your point, then I accept it because you do have to believe and you do have to love and you do have to follow Christ. Now if you said it was a religion based on works FOR salvation, I would disagree with that, but I will agree that you do have to do something to be a Christian.
As for denouncing the Crusades, I can denounce it but in the same light that I would denounce terrorism because I don't feel personally connected with it. The Crusades are a Catholic act not a Protestant act and I am Protestant and so were my ancestors, and you must remember that the Catholics killed, imprisoned, and beat protestant Christians who had the gall to stand up to the pope or the Catholic church. As for that matter, they would persecute anyone even a fellow Catholic if they opposed what the Catholic church ordained. On the other hand, there are Protestant ministers who have committed acts that I do denounce, but when you have any religious leader that puts themselves on the same level with God, tries to take control over the people's lives, or have a lifestyle that is outside of God's will, I personally don't think that leader is a true Christian. I think they are using the name of Christianity for personal gain (power, money, etc) so I think it is the responsibility of Christians to look out for these "wolves in sheeps clothing" and expose them for what they are. This way we protect the sheep from falling prey and we let others know that we don't consider the wolf to be one of our own.

 

[thespunk]

Disappear! Oh please disappear!

 

[Asimov]

Do you mind expounding on why in each cause above the people being attacked were innocent?

Do you think children aren't innocent?

 

[Asimov]

If that is your point, then I accept it because you do have to believe and you do have to love and you do have to follow Christ. Now if you said it was a religion based on works FOR salvation, I would disagree with that, but I will agree that you do have to do something to be a Christian.
As for denouncing the Crusades, I can denounce it but in the same light that I would denounce terrorism because I don't feel personally connected with it. The Crusades are a Catholic act not a Protestant act and I am Protestant and so were my ancestors, and you must remember that the Catholics killed, imprisoned, and beat protestant Christians who had the gall to stand up to the pope or the Catholic church. As for that matter, they would persecute anyone even a fellow Catholic if they opposed what the Catholic church ordained. On the other hand, there are Protestant ministers who have committed acts that I do denounce, but when you have any religious leader that puts themselves on the same level with God, tries to take control over the people's lives, or have a lifestyle that is outside of God's will, I personally don't think that leader is a true Christian. I think they are using the name of Christianity for personal gain (power, money, etc) so I think it is the responsibility of Christians to look out for these "wolves in sheeps clothing" and expose them for what they are. This way we protect the sheep from falling prey and we let others know that we don't consider the wolf to be one of our own.

Even Protestants do horrible things.

 

[thespunk]

Disappear! Oh please disappear!

 

[Asimov]

Do you mind expounding on why in each cause above the people being attacked were innocent?

Do you think children aren't innocent?

All of the people in these three instances who died were children? Let's make your burden of proof even easier. A majority of the people who died in these three instances were children?

A lot of people who died were children, thespunk. Consider that Joshua was ordered to "kill every man, woman, and child in Jericho. Consider
that the Hebrews were ordered to destroy everyone in Canaan. Consider that Elisha cursed 42 youths to be maimed and ripped apart. I will allow that the Crusades were "not Christian-like", how are those any different from the Hebrews taking Canaan? Why, if the Crusades are denounced, is Moses and the Hebrews denounced? Or even Elisha?

 

[thespunk]

Disappear! Oh please disappear!

 

[Asimov]

And everyone in Canaan was innocent?

Unless Children aren't people, then no, not everyone, but not everyone was guilty. Why are you defending genocide?

This has been addressed before.

Oh, I know the supposed explanation for killing 42 young boys.

What was the context for the Crusades? Why were they undertaken in the first place?

There were 7 Crusades, I believe. All to take back the Holy Land, or Jerusalem. How is that different from the Hebrews invading Canaan, because it was their chosen land?

Why must they be?

Why should Muslims denounce the Terrorists?

 

[Vic C.]

There were 7 Crusades, I believe. All to take back the Holy Land, or Jerusalem. How is that different from the Hebrews invading Canaan, because it was their chosen land?

I think it was five. Every one of them in defense against Muslim opposition and oppression.

 

[Asimov]

There were 7 Crusades, I believe. All to take back the Holy Land, or Jerusalem. How is that different from the Hebrews invading Canaan, because it was their chosen land?

I think it was five. Every one of them in defense against Muslim opposition and oppression.

well, wikipedia disagrees with you:

Historically, the Crusades were a series of several military campaigns, usually sanctioned by the Papacy, that took place during the 11th through 13th centuries. Originally, they were Roman Catholic endeavors to capture the Holy Land from the Muslims. Some were directed against other Christians, such as the Fourth Crusade against Constantinople and the Albigensian Crusade against the Cathars of southern France. In a broader sense, "crusade" can be used, always in a rhetorical and metaphorical sense, to identify as righteous any war that is given a religious justification ("Gott mit uns") and asserted to be holy, jihad being used in specifically Muslim contexts.

And there were nine crusades, not counting the ones in the Baltics and Central Europe.

Must I also mention the effect the crusades had on the Jewish community?

Must I also mention that the Christians were and in some cases still are just as oppressive as the Muslims.


Listen, my only point is that there is a lot of one-sided pointing, and this is EXACTLY what causes war and strife among different peoples. Hey, you know, sometimes it's fun to have a huge pissing contest over who's the least oppressive religious group. The truth is, it doesn't matter, guys. This goes for Christians and Muslims alike. Why do you guys both have to inch around each other like two cats caught in a cage? Who cares if one person thinks Jesus is lord, and the other thinks Allah is.

Religious tolerance....please!

 

[thespunk]

Disappear! Oh please disappear!

 

[thespunk]

Disappear! Oh please disappear!

 

[Asimov]

Hey, you know, sometimes it's fun to have a huge pissing contest over who's the least oppressive religious group. The truth is, it doesn't matter, guys. This goes for Christians and Muslims alike. Why do you guys both have to inch around each other like two cats caught in a cage? Who cares if one person thinks Jesus is lord, and the other thinks Allah is.

Religious tolerance....please!

I completely agree.

Ok, if we agree, then no need to argue any further. That was my point, that's all.

 

[Vic C.]

There were 7 Crusades, I believe. All to take back the Holy Land, or Jerusalem. How is that different from the Hebrews invading Canaan, because it was their chosen land?

I think it was five. Every one of them in defense against Muslim opposition and oppression.

well, wikipedia disagrees with you:

They don't disagree with me, they disagree with my source...

http://www.crisismagazine.com/april2002/cover.htm

 

[thespunk]

Disappear! Oh please disappear!

 

[Asimov]

And everyone in Canaan was innocent?

Unless Children aren't people, then no, not everyone, but not everyone was guilty.

What was the context for the conquest of Canaan?

God was giving the Hebrews Canaan and stating it as their Holy Land.

Have you stopped beating your wife yet? Can you point to a single instance where I have supported genocide?

I apologize, it just seemed like you were defending the death of Canaanites.

Plausible explanation.

Possible explanation.

I never claimed it was. Perhaps you can answer why it is or is not?

It's similar, because both are fighting for something stupid. It's similar, because both are trying to obtain what they view as a Holy Land. And of course, you can't share the Holy Land....nooooooo...:D

That's a good question. Why?

They shouldn't, I'm just pointing out that Henry seems to basing his entire opinion of Muslims on the extremists, that's all.

 

[Henry]

Basing my opinion on the extreemist??? Well I do not buy into that extreemist nonesence, when I see the news and they show the muslem crouds that are anti-america and calling for the death of Jews and Christians, they are not a mere few. NO they are crouds of thousands !!!!

Isam teachers that Jews and Christians are to be killed and that is what they do.

So perhaps those muslems in the Sudan are JUST extreemist hmmmm, the majority of the nation that is. Who capture, multilate, tourcher and kill Christians EVERY single day.

I geuss things that happen by the thousands, and every day are extreem?

No, I base my opinion on the facts and the facts are that Mulsems kill men wemon and children all over the world every day for nothing more then thy are not muslem.

Still, no muslem leader has rissen to speak against these things, and what muslem group had gone to the Sudan or other nations like it, and did anything to stop the killing? Tell who and when did that happen?

It did not happen.

Oh by the way, what about the sleeper cells? You know the muslems that are living in america who are just waiting for the call to go and blow something up, kill as many americans as they can and themselve in the process.

Sorry, Islam is a religon of hate.

 

[Asimov]

Isam teachers that Jews and Christians are to be killed and that is what they do.

So I guess the thousands of Jewish people who were killed in the Crusades are of no consequence? Or the Passion plays which incited anti-semitism, or even the Spanish Inquisition, which killed Jews, and the Holocaust (which I think is decidedly non-christian, but Hitler claimed to be a Roman Catholic). Once again I fail to see any reason to compare your religions atrocities to another ones...

So perhaps those muslems in the Sudan are JUST extreemist hmmmm, the majority of the nation that is. Who capture, multilate, tourcher and kill Christians EVERY single day.

There has been bad blood between Christian and Muslim alike for centuries, Henry, and blaming it ALL on the Muslims, who are blaming it all on you, isn't the solution.

No, I base my opinion on the facts and the facts are that Mulsems kill men wemon and children all over the world every day for nothing more then thy are not muslem.

Just like the Christians have, and still do to some extent, kill and have killed men, women and children all over the world for nothing more than they are not Christian.

Still, no muslem leader has rissen to speak against these things, and what muslem group had gone to the Sudan or other nations like it, and did anything to stop the killing? Tell who and when did that happen?

Why should they have to?

Oh by the way, what about the sleeper cells? You know the muslems that are living in america who are just waiting for the call to go and blow something up, kill as many americans as they can and themselve in the process.

So? America sticks it's nose in other peoples business, and you get bitten. The US has been playing the Middle East for decades, don't try to act like it hasn't.[/b]

Sorry, Islam is a religon of hate.

Sorry, but your arguments are those of hate.

 

[DivineNames]

Just like the Christians have, and still do to some extent, kill and have killed men, women and children all over the world for nothing more than they are not Christian.

Which recent war has been inspired by the teachings of Christianity?


Which Christian countries today are oppressing other religions?