I have a question :)

[thespunk]

Disappear! Oh please disappear!

 

[DivineNames]

So I guess the thousands of Jewish people who were killed in the Crusades are of no consequence? Or the Passion plays which incited anti-semitism, or even the Spanish Inquisition, which killed Jews, and the Holocaust (which I think is decidedly non-christian, but Hitler claimed to be a Roman Catholic). Once again I fail to see any reason to compare your religions atrocities to another ones...

http://www.valleyskeptic.com/churchissorry.html

"The Archbishop of Canterbury and other church leaders apologized yesterday for wars, racism and other sins committed in the name of Christianity."


http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/frholo.htm


"-- The Roman Catholic Church in France apologized to the Jewish people Tuesday for its silence in the face of French collaboration with the Holocaust. "


"The archbishop also condemned the history and influence "of age-old anti-Judaism" in the Catholic Church -- what he called "the constantly repeated anti-Jewish stereotypes." His words appeared designed on the eve of the Jewish New Year on Thursday to lay the basis for a new and deepened understanding between Christians and the 650,000 Jews in France."




Christianity is able to acknowledge its own past evil, it is able to apologize for it. In general, Islam lacks the ability to be self-critical, both historically and theologically.

Also, you have the question of to what extent the atrocities have been in keeping with "true Islam" or "true Christianity".

 

[DivineNames]

Which recent war has been inspired by the teachings of Christianity?

If you listened to the rhetoric of Bush, then some might claim the Iraqi war.

I know he talked about "evil", but that doesn't really show that the war was inspired by the teachings of Christianity.

 

[Asimov]

Which recent war has been inspired by the teachings of Christianity?

Korea, Vietnam, Cold War were against the "godless communists".

Which Christian countries today are oppressing other religions?

Uh, the US. And not just other religions, but other people.

 

[Free]

So I guess the thousands of Jewish people who were killed in the Crusades are of no consequence?...Once again I fail to see any reason to compare your religions atrocities to another ones...

And in the 4th Crusade, Christians killed Christians (West killed East). :-?

 

[DivineNames]

Korea, Vietnam, Cold War were against the "godless communists".

That isn't much of a link to Christianity.

 

[DivineNames]

Which Christian countries today are oppressing other religions?

Uh, the US. And not just other religions, but other people.

The Constitution of the United States guarantees (in principle) freedom of religion.


If you wish to claim that the United States oppresses other religions, give some examples, and explain how this oppression is linked to Christian teachings.

 

[Asimov]

If you wish to claim that the United States oppresses other religions, give some examples, and explain how this oppression is linked to Christian teachings.

Gay Marriages, protesting the removal of the Ten Commandments from Government courts, refusal to sell contraceptives, The Red Scare, Vietnam, Korea.

 

[DivineNames]

If you wish to claim that the United States oppresses other religions, give some examples, and explain how this oppression is linked to Christian teachings.

Gay Marriages, protesting the removal of the Ten Commandments from Government courts, refusal to sell contraceptives, The Red Scare, Vietnam, Korea.

Gay marriages? homosexuality isn't a religion as far as I know. Contraceptives?


As for the Ten Commandments being displayed on government property, I imagine it could be argued that this involves a bias towards Christianity, or a bias towards the monotheistic religions that accept the Ten Commandments anyway.

The argument on the other side (apparently) is that such display of the Ten Commandments merely, "recognizes and reflects the role that code has played in U.S. moral and legal traditions", and is not state endorsement of particular religion.

Its a relatively minor issue I believe.


One example-

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/01/scotu ... mandments/

"Last week, a CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll found 76 percent of those questioned said they support the Ten Commandments being displayed at the Texas Capitol.

Twenty-one percent of those surveyed said they were opposed. The poll had a margin of error of plus-or-minus 4.5 percentage points.

Within U.S. religious groups, however, there is little consensus.

Few Christian organizations have spoken out. The National Council of Churches said differences within its membership kept the group from taking a position. The Catholic Church and the Southern Baptist Convention have been largely silent.

Orthodox Jewish groups filed a brief with the court supporting the displays in principle. But Reform branch leaders, along with the Anti-Defamation League, oppose it.

Muslim leaders in the United States have issued no statements on the issue.

But public interest groups have weighed in.

'Thou shalt not merge religion and government," said Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State. "Promoting religion is the job of houses of worship, not government. Our legal system especially must avoid even the appearance of bias on the basis of religion.'"



So who complains about the display of the Ten Commandments? Oppressed religions? Its not clear that this is the case, it seems to be more an issue of principle (for some people) who see it as an infringement of the separation of state and religion.

 

[Asimov]

Gay marriages? homosexuality isn't a religion as far as I know. Contraceptives?

I did state oppression of religion and other ideas.

As for the Ten Commandments being displayed on government property, I imagine it could be argued that this involves a bias towards Christianity, or a bias towards the monotheistic religions that accept the Ten Commandments anyway.

It's oppression. Religion doesn't belong in government buildings.

The argument on the other side (apparently) is that such display of the Ten Commandments merely, "recognizes and reflects the role that code has played in U.S. moral and legal traditions", and is not state endorsement of particular religion.

But it isn't. Otherwise there would be a nationwide ban of graven images, people would be forced to love God, adultery would be illegal and severely punished, lying would be more severely punished in all situations, coveting would be illegal, it would be illegal to not obey your mother and father, and the sabbath would be forced upon others.

Its a relatively minor issue I believe.

I'm not surprised, I wonder what you would say if they had any other religious icon there.

So who complains about the display of the Ten Commandments? Oppressed religions? Its not clear that this is the case, it seems to be more an issue of principle (for some people) who see it as an infringement of the separation of state and religion.

That's not the point, I state it is religious oppression.

 

[DivineNames]

The argument on the other side (apparently) is that such display of the Ten Commandments merely, "recognizes and reflects the role that code has played in U.S. moral and legal traditions", and is not state endorsement of particular religion.

But it isn't. Otherwise there would be a nationwide ban of graven images, people would be forced to love God, adultery would be illegal and severely punished, lying would be more severely punished in all situations, coveting would be illegal, it would be illegal to not obey your mother and father, and the sabbath would be forced upon others.

Biblical Law in America
J.W.Welch

http://www.contra-mundum.org/essays/theonomy/WEL1.pdf

 

[DivineNames]

Its a relatively minor issue I believe.

I'm not surprised, I wonder what you would say if they had any other religious icon there.

I probably wouldn't care that much.

 

[DivineNames]

It's oppression. Religion doesn't belong in government buildings.

I live in England, where we have an official state religion, the Church of England. It doesn't cause any problem, other religions are not oppressed. If the majority of people are happy with it, I believe there is nothing wrong with a link between Church and State.

 

[DivineNames]

http://www.religioustolerance.org/rt_greec.htm

"2000-DEC-15: Minority faith groups win court case: After a three year battle, 11 Evangelical Christian pastors have been acquitted of operating religious groups. In Greece, minority religious groups can only function if they first obtain an operating license; licenses are only granted by Greek Orthodox bishops. The pastors had operated without a license. In Greece, proselytizing is illegal unless it is an attempt to convert a person to Greek Orthodoxy."


I came across this example, which does show Christians clearly involved in religious oppression in recent times. I think this has been dealt with by the European Court of Human Rights.

 

[Asimov]

The argument on the other side (apparently) is that such display of the Ten Commandments merely, "recognizes and reflects the role that code has played in U.S. moral and legal traditions", and is not state endorsement of particular religion.

But it isn't. Otherwise there would be a nationwide ban of graven images, people would be forced to love God, adultery would be illegal and severely punished, lying would be more severely punished in all situations, coveting would be illegal, it would be illegal to not obey your mother and father, and the sabbath would be forced upon others.

Biblical Law in America
J.W.Welch

http://www.contra-mundum.org/essays/theonomy/WEL1.pdf

Irrelevant, more than half of the ten commandments aren't part of American Law.

 

[DivineNames]

Biblical Law in America
J.W.Welch

http://www.contra-mundum.org/essays/theonomy/WEL1.pdf

Irrelevant, more than half of the ten commandments aren't part of American Law.

"the roots of the legal system in the United States are so deeply intertwined with biblical law."


If that is the case, then the Ten Commandments (as a well known part of Biblical law) seems like an appropriate thing to put up, if you have a display of the historical origins/influences on U.S. law.