Bible Study I Just Can't Seem to Figure This Out

[Razeontherock]

Oh okay, apart from the Catholic references and the Catholic part, I pretty much agree with all of that.

Creeds are not just Catholic, although Catholics do use their own form of it which is what you saw here, which they changed recently as compared to how these things go.

 

[Razeontherock]

I agree, I believe that there are an awful lot of mysteries that we don't know and might not even ever know about Christianity.

Catholicism tries to explain away all the mysteries, and that's where I see their biggest errors. Our mind will never produce His thoughts.

 

[JLB]

I agree God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus when He returns on the last day, John 6:40, but not how you believe, but how it is written. When Christ returns we are then caught up to Him in the clouds to meet Jesus in the air, both alive and those who sleep in their graves as we are then transformed from corruptible to incorruptible and mortal to immortal, John 5:28, 29; 1 Corinthians 15:51-55, and then will be with the Lord forever.

13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18


Paul clarifies the misunderstanding that many have about this subject.

• 13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.

Those who have fallen asleep, is a reference to those who are in Christ that have died.

Now comes the clarification.

• 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

Look at the language here: ... even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus


Unmistakable. The saints who have died, are coming with Jesus, from heaven when He returns.

Those who have died in Christ, have gone to heaven, and their bodies and in the earth, awaiting His return.


Heaven's perspective on this matter -

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Revelation 19:11-15


Key Verse: And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.


The armies in heaven includes the Church, His bride; The saints who are in Heaven.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.” 8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. Revelation 19:7-8

The saints who are in heaven, return with Jesus at the end of the age, as the scriptures teach.

The spirits of these saints are not "asleep" in the ground.


13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?” 14 And I said to him, “Sir, you know.”So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. Revelation 7:13-15

• “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”
• “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
• Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple.

Again, the saints come with Jesus from Heaven when He returns.


14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, Jude 14

• the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints

Thus the Lord my God will come, and all the saints with You. Zechariah 14:5

• and all the saints with You

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
1 Thessalonians 4:14

• even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus

JLB

 

[JLB]

Please show the scripture where it uses the word hell.

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance: Hell
Hebrew # 7585 Sheol, Hades, or the world of the dead, grave, hell, pit
Greek # 86 place of departed souls, grave, hell

Ephesians 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison

Hell, Tartarus was reserved for spirits or angels who were disobedient, in the time of Noah, which is were Jesus went to preach to them.


18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 1 Peter 3:18-20

• He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah

The context links these spirits who were disobedient to the time of Noah.


Peter clarifies this in his second letter -

For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 2 Peter 2:4-5

• if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness,

Hell here is Tartarus.



JLB

 

[Razeontherock]

Yup, pretty clear. Our soul does not include action as previously stated, action is what our bodies do. Our bodies being in the grave awaiting resurrection, and our Spirit returning to God who gave it, does not automatically mean our soul ceases to exist, as previously claimed. We wouldn't know what happens to our soul if Scripture didn't tell us; nor do we really know if our soul and Spirit stay together ... a word study in Revelation to see if any of these passages use the word for soul might be interesting.

 

[Razeontherock]

Tartarus, I edited a previous post to remove a statement about that since I couldn't find it. There it is! FHG is aptly pointing out Jesus descended into the lowest part of hell, which is what Tartarus means. That's all well and good, but then don't turn around and claim He never went to hell, it's not in the Bible, and only in a Catholic Creed.

 

[for_his_glory]

English did not become a language until over a millennium after Scripture was complete, so usage of the word hell (or not) is irrelevant. You yourself have posted perfectly valid Scripture of Jesus' descent into hell. So the Bible itself is the basis of this belief, not "just" a Creed. Plus, Creeds were written to summarize Scripture, not to deviate from it.

The need to be born again does not affect what it means to be "absent from the body, and present with the Lord." I simply state we may not know what this means as well as many assume. Spirit and flesh indeed mix, and co-exist. This is the essence of Christianity. Separating the two is death, not sanctification. Walking in the Spirit is in no way being "absent from the body;" you could do with a better understanding there. It might produce something useful, that we've all missed!

Since I can only read English I have to go by what my Bible says as it is written. I'm not going to get into the Apostle's Creed as that was only an answer to a question that was asked and has no relevance to the OP. Please do not question my understanding telling me I need a better understanding as I gave what I believe with full context of scripture. If you disagree that is fine for that is why we have discussions to show why we believe what we study.

 

[for_his_glory]

Anytime anyone says there's no mystery left in Christianity, that is a huge red flag. The Bible speaks of unresolved mystery, and warns us against thinking we know it all. Your last sentence here directly contradicts Scripture, and one might conclude the transfiguration is recorded specifically for this reason.

Further, we aren't told to comfort one another with the words that "when you die there is no more consciousness;" come now, what does the Bible say about that?

I never said I know it all as no one can exhaust the teachings within the scriptures. There is nothing hidden in scripture that we can not search out by the guidance of the Holy Spirit who teaches us all things God wants us to learn.

Colossians 1: 25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; 26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: 27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:


There is no consciousness in death according to these scriptures:

Psalms 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

Ecclesiastes 9: 5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

 

[for_his_glory]

Tartarus, I edited a previous post to remove a statement about that since I couldn't find it. There it is! FHG is aptly pointing out Jesus descended into the lowest part of hell, which is what Tartarus means. That's all well and good, but then don't turn around and claim He never went to hell, it's not in the Bible, and only in a Catholic Creed.

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance: Hell

Hebrew # 7585 Sheol, Hades, or the world of the dead, grave, hell, pit

Greek # 86 place of departed souls, grave, hell

Greek # 1067 Gehenna, the Valley of the sons of Hinnom South of Jerusalem, figuratively and literal of place of punishment.

Greek # 5020. Tartaroo tar-tar-o'-o from Tartaros (the deepest abyss of Hades); to incarcerate in eternal torment:--cast down to hell.

Hades is the English of the Greek word ᾅδης, just as Gehenna is the English for the Greek word γέεννα and Tartaros is the English word for the Greek word ταρταρόω

The English word hell, back in 1611, meant about the same as Hades, that being covered or unseen as in grave/pit. We do not see those in the grave as they are unseen to the eye as they are covered with dirt, or some placed in a tomb. The word hell is derived from the Saxon helan, to cover, and signifying merely the covered, or invisible place. The habitation of those who have gone from the visible terrestrial region to the world of spirits.

 

[Razeontherock]

You skipped right over Tarturus, which is the key of a very relevant passage you've quoted a lot.

 

[for_his_glory]

13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18


Paul clarifies the misunderstanding that many have about this subject.

• 13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.

Those who have fallen asleep, is a reference to those who are in Christ that have died.

Now comes the clarification.

• 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

Look at the language here: ... even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus


Unmistakable. The saints who have died, are coming with Jesus, from heaven when He returns.

Those who have died in Christ, have gone to heaven, and their bodies and in the earth, awaiting His return.


Heaven's perspective on this matter -

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Revelation 19:11-15


Key Verse: And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.


The armies in heaven includes the Church, His bride; The saints who are in Heaven.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.” 8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. Revelation 19:7-8

The saints who are in heaven, return with Jesus at the end of the age, as the scriptures teach.

The spirits of these saints are not "asleep" in the ground.


13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?” 14 And I said to him, “Sir, you know.”So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. Revelation 7:13-15

• “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”
• “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
• Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple.

Again, the saints come with Jesus from Heaven when He returns.


14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, Jude 14

• the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints

Thus the Lord my God will come, and all the saints with You. Zechariah 14:5

• and all the saints with You

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
1 Thessalonians 4:14

• even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus

JLB

Where does it use the word heaven in 1Thessalonians 4:14? It only reads in the next verses that we are caught up to Jesus as we meet Him in the air (not heaven) right before He plants His feet on the Mount of Olives. We which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.You can't read something into a verse that is not there. The Rapture theory places the saints as being the army that returns with Jesus from heaven, but these verses below dispute this.

We are not that army in Rev 19 as we have only prepared to be His Bride when He returns in the air with His army of angels clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Rev 15:6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

 

[for_his_glory]

You skipped right over Tarturus, which is the key of a very relevant passage you've quoted a lot.

I already explained that as being the grave/pit/hell in post #49

 

[JLB]

Where does it use the word heaven in 1Thessalonians 4:14? It only reads in the next verses that we are caught up to Jesus as we meet Him in the air (not heaven) right before He plants His feet on the Mount of Olives.

13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-14

Yes, we are all caught up together in the air, in the clouds of heaven, because Jesus comes from heaven with His saints.

• even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

Jesus returns from heaven to earth with His saints.


24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven. Mark 13:24-27

• And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

Jesus gathers His saints from heaven, and from the earth, whereby we shall all be gathered together, and thus we shall always be with the Lord.



JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

Hell, Tartarus was reserved for spirits or angels who were disobedient, in the time of Noah, which is were Jesus went to preach to them.


18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 1 Peter 3:18-20

• He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah

The context links these spirits who were disobedient to the time of Noah.


Peter clarifies this in his second letter -

For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 2 Peter 2:4-5

• if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness,

Hell here is Tartarus.



JLB

What the whole thing boils down to is that scripture never says Jesus went down to hell to preach to the lost, but went to preach to the spirits in prison.

Let's go back to the OP. HeIsRisen2018 said she "recently learned that He descended into Hell help the lost." I have been showing in all my replies that Jesus never went to hell to preach to the lost, but went to preach to the spirits in prison, 1 Peter 3:19; Ephesians 4:9, being those angels that are reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day, 2 Peter 2:4; Jude 1:5-7. The word hell is used as hell/grave/pit all meaning the earth's underground and that's the point that needs to be made.

This is the whole purpose of Jesus descending into the lower parts of the earth to preach to these angles that are chained unto the day of judgement. Colossians 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 1 Corinthians 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

 

[for_his_glory]

13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-14

Yes, we are all caught up together in the air, in the clouds of heaven, because Jesus comes from heaven with His saints.

• even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

Jesus returns from heaven to earth with His saints.


24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven. Mark 13:24-27

• And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

Jesus gathers His saints from heaven, and from the earth, whereby we shall all be gathered together, and thus we shall always be with the Lord.



JLB

Already explained this in post #51 so no need to repeat myself. Either we believe what Jesus said in John 3:13 or we call Him a liar.

 

[JLB]

Already explained this in post #51 so no need to repeat myself. Either we believe what Jesus said in John 3:13 or we call Him a liar.

No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. John 3:13


Of course John 3:13 was true at the time, before He was crucified, and was in the heart of the earth.

The Old Testament saints were in the heart of the earth called Abraham’s bosom, which was also called Paradise.

Jesus said to the thief on the cross, this day you will be with Me in paradise. Jesus didn’t ascend until the third day.

Jesus taught us about life after death for the Old Testament saint.

19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell[d] from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’

27 “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead. Luke 16:19-31

Notice that Abraham nor the rich man nor Lazarus was “asleep” in a grave in the ground.

Furthermore, other things changed after He was crucified.



51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many. Matthew 27:51-53


Jesus spoke the truth in John 3:13 as well as everywhere else.

Paul did also.


There are saints who have died in heaven and they will return with Him when He comes.



JLB

 

[Razeontherock]

I already explained that as being the grave/pit/hell in post #49

Tartarus is where the disobedient spirits in chains that Jesus preached to were, that word is used for the very lowest part of hell, not peaceful sheol. How did Jesus do this if He didn't descend into hell? Either way, it's there in Scripture.

 

[brujaq]

imo Jesus did suffer death and hell for associating with us taking our sin but was promptly judged not guilty by virtue of his sinless self sacrifice then resurrected . For God so loved the World he was willing to became our Way .. Too awesome to comprehend or bear it all .. And our joy will be as intense as his suffering and pain was for us one day .. Amen

 

[Razeontherock]

What the whole thing boils down to is that scripture never says Jesus went down to hell to preach to the lost, but went to preach to the spirits in prison.

Let's go back to the OP. HeIsRisen2018 said she "recently learned that He descended into Hell help the lost." I have been showing in all my replies that Jesus never went to hell to preach to the lost, but went to preach to the spirits in prison, 1 Peter 3:19; Ephesians 4:9, being those angels that are reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day, 2 Peter 2:4; Jude 1:5-7. The word hell is used as hell/grave/pit all meaning the earth's underground and that's the point that needs to be made.

This is the whole purpose of Jesus descending into the lower parts of the earth to preach to these angles that are chained unto the day of judgement. Colossians 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 1 Corinthians 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

Yes! I agree with this, right up to the last paragraph. Dead raised in conjunction with this, seen by many. Jesus didn't preach or help the lost in hell, (that we know of) he freed the OT Saints in sheol, aka Abraham's bosom or Paradise.

 

[Razeontherock]

imo Jesus did suffer death and hell for associating with us taking our sin but was promptly judged not guilty by virtue of his sinless self sacrifice then resurrected . For God so loved the World he was willing to became our Way .. Too awesome to comprehend or bear it all .. And our joy will be as intense as his suffering and pain was for us one day .. Amen

Amen! One thing here I find fascinating, that moment when you have Him as being "judged not guilty:" what happened then, and what did it look like?

The things we're told in Scripture about this very much seem to me like we're peering over the edge of what's knowable, whether by limitation of human language, or our own minds. What we do know is "all Judgment has been given unto the Son" now, but that wasn't the case when Jesus was on the Cross. When did that change? Did the Father Judge Jesus there in (some part of) hell? Did Jesus simply "have power to lay down His life and power to take it up again" as He told us? Is this all the same thing as taking "the keys of death and of hell," or was that a sequence of events?

I don't see how we could know those details now, but I do think it's important that Jesus faced all this, triumphed openly over it taking captivity captive and conquered anything we might have to face.