New Jerusalem

[for_his_glory]

Luke 23:41-43 I believe the thief knowing he was a sinner and with his physical death approaching finally recognized the need to repent as I would only assume he heard Jesus speak to the multitudes and so did repent before his death so that when Jesus returns he too will be part of the Bride. This is why he asked Jesus to remember him in paradise. Kind of like a death bed confession.

2 Corinthians 12:1-4 Paul says he will come to visions and revelations and did not know if this man was in or out of his body. I believe the meaning is that this man was not actually in heaven (paradise), but in the Spiritual realm right where he sat as seeing a vision of paradise and hearing the Holy Spirit speak to him. I know when I am one on one with the Holy Spirit he speaks to me sometimes with visions and sometimes revelations.

I feel where God is at in the third heaven can be as what Jerusalem was at one time being a place where the presence of God filled the actual Temple. God fills His Temple in Heaven with His Shekinah glory as God is never changing and when Jesus returns and the New Jerusalem (I don't believe it is literal as in a city made with hands) is ushered down to a new purified heaven and earth God will also fill the temple as God and Jesus are the temple made without hands and the brightness of the Shekinah glory means there will be no more darkness of night anymore.

I also feel the New Jerusalem could be the Garden of Eden as scripture is silent on whatever happen to it from the time Adam was evicted, Genesis 3:24, and the Cherubim who God sat at the Eastern gates are probably still guarding the entrance as no one has ever found it nor will they ever.

The Eastern Gate has been sealed off by the Turks since the1500's and has never been opened again. Scripture speaks of Jesus who entered in and out of it while here on earth and will again enter the Eastern Gate, or as it is sometimes called the Golden gate, when He returns to fight the final battle. According to Luke 21:5, 6 Jesus was speaking about God destroying the Temple as there will not be left one stone upon another during the time of Gods great wrath and in Rev 21:9-27 John is given the vision of the New Jerusalem as the temple is God and Jesus and there will need not be any sun as the Shekinah glory will be our light.

Ref scriptures: Ezekiel 43:1-4; 44:1-3; Zechariah 14:3, 4; Matthew 21:1-5; Acts 1:10-12; Rev 21:9-27

(Side note):
Zechariah 14:3,4 speaks of Jesus coming down to plant His feet on the Mount of Olives that faces the east of Jerusalem and will cause the mountain to split in half from east to west making a very large valley. I never thought of this before, but it could be that valley is the Garden of Eden that has laid under ground all these years. Something to think about.

 

[Elijah7777]

I also feel the New Jerusalem could be the Garden of Eden as scripture is silent on whatever happen to it from the time Adam was evicted, Genesis 3:24

Noah preserved the Garden of Eden on the Ark. He saved all the plants and animals.

 

[for_his_glory]

Noah preserved the Garden of Eden on the Ark. He saved all the plants and animals.

Where does it say in scripture that Noah saved all the plants?

 

[Elijah7777]

Where does it say in scripture that Noah saved all the plants?to

What do you think they ate? Wild berries? We need to study History, Science & the Bible together. I studied Biology and Ancient History in High School. Then later on I studied the Bible. Eden had cultivated plants and domesticated animals. Man was a food producer. Before Adam and Eve man was a good gather. Noah preserved all the plants and animals we read about in the Bible. He saved the whole biodiverse ecology. He saved all of Eden, not just Noah and his family. They did not go back to being food gathers. That would defeat the whole purpose.

Genesis 2:8 states: "Now the LORD God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed."

This verse describes how God created the Garden of Eden and placed Adam there. It sets the stage for the events that follow, including Adam's role in tending the garden

There are people with a PhD in Botany at the universities in Jerusalem. They are experts on how the wild plants in the Middle East because cultivated. They mostly publish in their magazines, but every now and then they will write a book about this.

If you're interested in the ecological perspective, Oxford Academic has a book on plant ecology in the Middle East, covering domestication and biodiversity hotspots. Additionally, JSTOR has research on seed dispersal and how modifications in legumes contributed to domestication.

 

[for_his_glory]

What do you think they ate? Wild berries? We need to study History, Science & the Bible together. I studied Biology and Ancient History in High School. Then later on I studied the Bible. Eden had cultivated plants and domesticated animals. Man was a food producer. Before Adam and Eve man was a good gather. Noah preserved all the plants and animals we read about in the Bible. He saved the whole biodiverse ecology. He saved all of Eden, not just Noah and his family. They did not go back to being food gathers. That would defeat the whole purpose.

First, there were no others before Adam and Eve. Noah was never in the Garden of Eden, but did eat of the same foods, but also given meat of animals to eat that Adam and Eve were not given.

Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. (Adam and Eve)

What God gave to eat after Adam and Eve were driven out of the garden of Eden, they had to till the land for their food and no longer allowed to enter back into the garden of Eden.

Gen 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

Noah and his family after gathering all into the ark would have probably taken dried herbs, vegetables, dried fruit and grains, dried fish and possibly certain dried bugs like meal-worms and grasshoppers to last the duration of the flood. They also would have gathered that of water and food for the animals and birds.

After the land started to dry up after the flood, plant life reproduced itself from roots that were planted deep in the ground that got covered up during the flood. Ocean life would had stayed the same during the flood and after the waters receded providing food for consumption.

 

[Elijah7777]

What God gave to eat after Adam and Eve were driven out of the garden of Eden, they had to till the land for their food and no longer allowed to enter back into the garden of Eden.

Just how does this work? If their food did not come from the Garden in Eden then were did it come from? My wife is asian. She eats food very different from the food we eat. But that food still has to come from somewhere.

 

[Elijah7777]

After the land started to dry up after the flood, plant life reproduced itself from roots that were planted deep in the ground that got covered up during the flood.

You do not know the difference between wild and cultivated plants. We have 8 billion people in the world today because we can produce enough food to feed them.

Wild plants grow naturally without human intervention, thriving in forests, meadows, and other untamed environments. Cultivated plants, on the other hand, are intentionally grown and maintained by people for food, medicine, aesthetics, or other purposes.

Wild plants often adapt to their surroundings over time, developing resilience to local conditions. Cultivated plants, however, may require regular care—such as watering, pruning, and fertilizing—to thrive. Some wild species have been domesticated over centuries, evolving into staple crops like wheat and barley in the Middle East

 

[for_his_glory]

Just how does this work? If their food did not come from the Garden in Eden then were did it come from? My wife is asian. She eats food very different from the food we eat. But that food still has to come from somewhere.

Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
Gen 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

After Adam and Eve were evicted out of the garden of Eden they had to eat from the plants of the fields around them and work the ground to produce food for themselves.

 

[for_his_glory]

You do not know the difference between wild and cultivated plants. We have 8 billion people in the world today because we can produce enough food to feed them.

Wild plants grow naturally without human intervention, thriving in forests, meadows, and other untamed environments. Cultivated plants, on the other hand, are intentionally grown and maintained by people for food, medicine, aesthetics, or other purposes.

Wild plants often adapt to their surroundings over time, developing resilience to local conditions. Cultivated plants, however, may require regular care—such as watering, pruning, and fertilizing—to thrive. Some wild species have been domesticated over centuries, evolving into staple crops like wheat and barley in the Middle East

When I was a child we lived in the country and ate from the garden my grandfather planted. I know the difference between wild and cultivated plants as we ate from both types.

 

[Elijah7777]

I know the difference between wild and cultivated plants as we ate from both types.

Darwin seems to think he knows the difference also The Nazi regime, pursued a policy of eugenics and selective breeding to create what they considered a "racially pure" Aryan population. Even in the Bible the 144,000 God has kept pure onto Himself. 12,000 from each tribe. There is a lot of ink that goes along with that. People still try to brush it off as not meaning anything.

 

[for_his_glory]

Darwin seems to think he knows the difference also The Nazi regime, pursued a policy of eugenics and selective breeding to create what they considered a "racially pure" Aryan population. Even in the Bible the 144,000 God has kept pure onto Himself. 12,000 from each tribe. There is a lot of ink that goes along with that. People still try to brush it off as not meaning anything.

Darwin believed in his theories of evolution, not creation of man by God who created all of us. He, along with so many others that have no truth and faith in God will not be in the New Jerusalem.

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
Hosea 4:7 As they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

These servants are the generational 144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel, except for the tribe of Dan and Ephraim as they fell to idol worship and allowed God to be removed from them, Judges 18:30; 1 Kings12:25-33; Hosea 5:9, 11;Psalms 78:9-17, 65-67. To keep it twelve tribes since Dan and Ephraim are not mentioned in vs. 4-8 the tribe of Joseph appears twice, once under his own name and once under the name of his son Issachar/Manasseh. Judah is mentioned first as Messiah was to come from the lineage of David.

This is the importance of the 144,000 of the house of Israel and their generations unto the end of days. There were those of the old covenant that were faithful to God in keeping all his commandments and repented of their idol worshiping. Their generations who have also come back to Gods grace that are still alive during the seven trumpet sounds will continue to preach to the Jews as it was with the twelve disciples in Matthew 10:6. The generations of the 144,000 that are still alive have the seal of God on them which are the seven Spirits of God as they will have to endure much persecution until the end of days before the return of Jesus.
(Seven Spirits of God are found in Isaiah 11:2 and mentioned in Rev 1:4. Spirit of the Lord, wisdom, understanding, counsel, power, knowledge and fear/respect of the Lord.)

The Aryan race is a pseudoscientic historical race concept that emerged in the late 19th century to describe people who descended from the Proto-Indo-Europeans as a racial grouping. The terminology derives from the historical usage of Aryan used by modern Indo-Iranians as an epithet of "noble".

Aryan race - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Elijah7777]

Darwin believed in his theories of evolution, not creation of man by God who created all of us.

Darwin provides compelling evidence for God. Natural selection reveals the method by which God shapes His creation—an intricate process that some Christians refer to as fine-tuning. The universe is astonishingly exact, precise, and fine-tuned, just as God's justice is unwavering in its precision. We can observe this in Chaos Theory, where even what appears to be random is governed by deeper order. While complexity may sometimes exceed human understanding, it remains fully comprehensible to God.

Common ancestor is central to his ideas. In his famous book On the Origin of Species (1859), he proposed that all living organisms share a common ancestry The Bible is filled with common ancestor. Even science uses the words Adam, Eve and Eden. Everyone has a matriarch and a patriarch. WE ALL share a common ancestor.

Ancient History, Archeology, Biology goes a long way to prove the Bible is accurate and true. Many religious thinkers have found ways to reconcile faith with evolution, seeing natural selection as the mechanism through which God shapes life. Some theologians even argue that evolution adds to the wonder of creation, showing a dynamic and unfolding design rather than a static one.

 

[for_his_glory]

Darwin provides compelling evidence for God. Natural selection reveals the method by which God shapes His creation—an intricate process that some Christians refer to as fine-tuning. The universe is astonishingly exact, precise, and fine-tuned, just as God's justice is unwavering in its precision. We can observe this in Chaos Theory, where even what appears to be random is governed by deeper order. While complexity may sometimes exceed human understanding, it remains fully comprehensible to God.

Common ancestor is central to his ideas. In his famous book On the Origin of Species (1859), he proposed that all living organisms share a common ancestry The Bible is filled with common ancestor. Even science uses the words Adam, Eve and Eden. Everyone has a matriarch and a patriarch. WE ALL share a common ancestor.

Ancient History, Archeology, Biology goes a long way to prove the Bible is accurate and true. Many religious thinkers have found ways to reconcile faith with evolution, seeing natural selection as the mechanism through which God shapes life. Some theologians even argue that evolution adds to the wonder of creation, showing a dynamic and unfolding design rather than a static one.

Thank you for this info, but I really am not into this as there will always be a debate about evolution vs creation which has nothing to do with the OP, but maybe more in the science section. Adam is our common ancestor that all of us have a lineage to him.

 

[Elijah7777]

Adam is our common ancestor that all of us have a lineage to him.

Adam and Eve are not the common ancestors of all people. The concept of 'generations' in Genesis is often misunderstood. While you may share a genetic connection with Adam and Eve in a broader sense, they are not necessarily your patriarch or matriarch in a direct lineage. This distinction may hold particular significance for those of Hebrew descent or those who follow Messianic traditions, where genealogies carry deep meaning.

The genealogy from Adam to Jesus is recorded in the Bible, particularly in Luke 3:23-38, which traces Jesus' lineage all the way back to Adam. According to biblical records, there are 76 generations from Adam to Jesus. I have trouble trying to understand the last three generations in my family. So this can get complicated.

Paul does warn against endless discussions about genealogies in 1 Timothy 1:4 and Titus 3:9. In these passages, he advises believers to avoid debates over genealogies, arguing that they can lead to controversy rather than godly edification.

 

[for_his_glory]

Adam and Eve are not the common ancestors of all people. The concept of 'generations' in Genesis is often misunderstood. While you may share a genetic connection with Adam and Eve in a broader sense, they are not necessarily your patriarch or matriarch in a direct lineage. This distinction may hold particular significance for those of Hebrew descent or those who follow Messianic traditions, where genealogies carry deep meaning.

The genealogy from Adam to Jesus is recorded in the Bible, particularly in Luke 3:23-38, which traces Jesus' lineage all the way back to Adam. According to biblical records, there are 76 generations from Adam to Jesus. I have trouble trying to understand the last three generations in my family. So this can get complicated.

Paul does warn against endless discussions about genealogies in 1 Timothy 1:4 and Titus 3:9. In these passages, he advises believers to avoid debates over genealogies, arguing that they can lead to controversy rather than godly edification.

Then we probably need to get back to the opening post as I have done the ancestry on my fathers side that goes back to 1486 in which as far as we can trace and the DNA on my mothers side with my Great Grandmother's DNA takes us back to the lineage of the tribe of Judah, even though I can not get past the year 1860. It is fun doing family ancestry to see where we come from, but only for our own gratification and especially the pics we can find.

 

[Elijah7777]

my Great Grandmother's DNA takes us back to the lineage of the tribe of Judah,

Then you actually are descended from Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden if your DNA takes you back there. That would make the Bible a lot more interesting for you to trace your family genealogy back that far. In my family they did not become Christian until 800 AD. All the the family geneolgy was destroyed before that point in time. Of course we have the DNA but that is a little bit of everything.

The spread of civilization from the Middle East to Europe has been a major focus of historical and archaeological research. The Middle East, often called the Cradle of Civilization.

 

[for_his_glory]

Then you actually are descended from Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden if your DNA takes you back there. That would make the Bible a lot more interesting for you to trace your family genealogy back that far. In my family they did not become Christian until 800 AD. All the the family geneolgy was destroyed before that point in time. Of course we have the DNA but that is a little bit of everything.

The spread of civilization from the Middle East to Europe has been a major focus of historical and archaeological research. The Middle East, often called the Cradle of Civilization.

If you really think about it, we all came from Adam and Eve as they literally birthed all the generations to come until Christ returns, but not all from these generations will be in the New Jerusalem.

 

[Elijah7777]

If you really think about it, we all came from Adam and Eve as they literally birthed all the generations to come until Christ returns, but not all from these generations will be in the New Jerusalem.

I use to think that but the DNA evidence shows that the gentiles are not of Hebrew descent. This maybe why Jesus refers to them as dogs.

Science has explored the idea of a genetic Adam and Eve, which differs from the biblical account. Studies in genetics suggest that all modern humans share common ancestors, often referred to as Mitochondrial Eve (the most recent common female ancestor) and Y-chromosomal Adam (the most recent common male ancestor).

These individuals lived hundreds of thousands of years apart, meaning they were not a literal couple like the Adam and Eve described in Genesis

 

[for_his_glory]

I use to think that but the DNA evidence shows that the gentiles are not of Hebrew descent. This maybe why Jesus refers to them as dogs.

Science has explored the idea of a genetic Adam and Eve, which differs from the biblical account. Studies in genetics suggest that all modern humans share common ancestors, often referred to as Mitochondrial Eve (the most recent common female ancestor) and Y-chromosomal Adam (the most recent common male ancestor).

These individuals lived hundreds of thousands of years apart, meaning they were not a literal couple like the Adam and Eve described in Genesis

All I can say is if it wasn't for God creating Adam and Eve none of us would be here.

I can trace 14 generations back on my dad's side coming from Germany and on my mothers side I am third generation Hungarian and third generation Portuguese.