[ Testimony ] I was poisoned , nearly died and saw the Lord

[Jake]

And if you find yourself without food. And one of your children die. Or your wife dies. Then, will you stay true to the commandment of God, and the faith of the Lord, and not take the mark so that you can just get one loaf of bread? If you see no physical assistance, will your faith still stand? If your mother or father die a slow agonizing death from a disease, will your faith still stand? Or will you receive the mark in order to get medical care? Are you prepared, in your faith, to watch your loved ones die a physical death?

He has promised to supply all our needs. The simple fact is that our needs are purely spiritual. He has supplied them, and will continue. There is no need to repair that which is dying, UNLESS it is for a specific purpose. Which I believe happens. But if He does not have a purpose then you must understand that He may very well allow your outer shell to waste away.

In order for us to survive physically, we must prepare spiritually FIRST, without being spiritually prepared, then what would be the point.

I do not know why you are asking me if I would take the mark? Of course I would not take the mark. Would you? I personally do not want to live an eternity outside of His presence.

You and I both may die in tribulation, it's not a guarantee that both of us won't be shot or hung for our faith. Did you hear about the guy in Afghan who was caught with a Bible and he's going to be shot, he may have already been shot.

The Word does not promise we will not suffer, in fact, it says we will and in that suffering we are being purified, we are dying to ourselves so Jesus will be conformed in us, suffering is a huge part of our Christian walk.

 

[Nathan]

In order for us to survive physically, we must prepare spiritually FIRST, without being spiritually prepared, then what would be the point.

I do not know why you are asking me if I would take the mark? Of course I would not take the mark. Would you? I personally do not want to live an eternity outside of His presence.

You and I both may die in tribulation, it's not a guarantee that both of us won't be shot or hung for our faith. Did you hear about the guy in Afghan who was caught with a Bible and he's going to be shot, he may have already been shot.

The Word does not promise we will not suffer, in fact, it says we will and in that suffering we are being purified, we are dying to ourselves so Jesus will be conformed in us, suffering is a huge part of our Christian walk.

I would hope you would see the mark for what it is. I think you may miss my point. It's not about if you would, but when your loved ones are killed because YOU won't take it. Then, YOUR faith is tested. Some in that time will rely on their OWN faith thinking God will forgive them for taking the mark. It's faith, but it's not Godly faith.

 

[Jake]

I would hope you would see the mark for what it is. I think you may miss my point. It's not about if you would, but when your loved ones are killed because YOU won't take it. Then, YOUR faith is tested. Some in that time will rely on their OWN faith thinking God will forgive them for taking the mark. It's faith, but it's not Godly faith.

I do not want to get into this here, maybe start a new thread or something, but simply if we are in Christ, we do not have the mark, nor can we ever have it unless we step outside of Christ and become fleshy. There are only two kinds of people, those belonging to Jesus and those belonging to the anti-christ, those belonging to the anti-christ already have the mark, just as we have the seal of Christ.

peace-

 

[Nathan]

I do not want to get into this here, maybe start a new thread or something, but simply if we are in Christ, we do not have the mark, nor can we ever have it unless we step outside of Christ and become fleshy. There are only two kinds of people, those belonging to Jesus and those belonging to the anti-christ, those belonging to the anti-christ already have the mark, just as we have the seal of Christ.

peace-

Yea, that needs a different thread.

 

[Jake]

Yea, that needs a different thread.

Yep, and I am studying this, so probably not the best person to discuss it with anyway.

 

[Cornelius]

dumb question.

which is more important?

enter hell whole and free of sickness

or heaven with some type of fraility

i choose the later as when we die(all do no matter what faith level one has) we dont keep this body of decay.

What is important is that we live in the Kingdom now.

Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so on earth.

So if you can see sickness in heaven, so let it be on earth.


The Kingdom is now and in our hearts. Sickness is part of the curse and we have been redeemed of the curse. Jesus totally saved us from the curse. Why else would He command us to go out and heal the sick.

If it was "fleshly" to heal these physical bodies, why did Jesus spend so much time healing the sick ?

 

[Nathan]

What is important is that we live in the Kingdom now.

Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so on earth.

So if you can see sickness in heaven, so let it be on earth.


The Kingdom is now and in our hearts. Sickness is part of the curse and we have been redeemed of the curse. Jesus totally saved us from the curse. Why else would He command us to go out and heal the sick.

If it was "fleshly" to heal these physical bodies, why did Jesus spend so much time healing the sick ?

Jesus answered, "It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him.

From the Lords own admission we see at least one body that was 'broken' SO that God's work could be displayed. It's not fleshly to heal. But there is a purpose behind each and EVERY healing. You are right C, He did COMPLETELY heal us. Past tense. We ARE new creatures. So why have we not changed physically? Jesus changed physically.

We have. At least who WE are has. We are a soul that inhabits this body made if COMPLETE dust. This 'body' will die. Flesh and blood CANNOT inherit the kingdom of God. But yet you are right that the kingdom is now.

13 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,
14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

And yet, when He comes again, He will deliver His kingdom to God the Father. This flesh and blood is not a part of the kingdom. It will not transfer over when delivery takes place. But our bodies are apart of Christ and therefore should be looked after and kept in 'check'. But the simple fact that they ARE apart of Christ woul make some reason then there should be absolute nonexistence of sickness. How can it be?

It is because once again this dust will not go into eternity. But it is the only outward example of what is inside and therefore should be treated as such for the time being. Knowing that it is not the focus, but who we are is. Is there any wonder why unbelievers are called "fleshly"?

 

[Jake]

Nathan,
The Word tells us we are dead, but made alive in Christ:

Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Not only is Christ living in you, but He gives life to your mortal body!

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwelleth in you, he that raised up Christ Jesus from the dead shall give life also to your mortal bodies through his Spirit that dwelleth in you.


One thing the Word tells us is, we will suffer (even sickness, the Word never says we will not get sick, what it does say, is Jesus healed us at the cross and we do not have to stay sick).

Philippians 3:10 I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,

1 Thessalonians 1:6 You became imitators of us and of the Lord, for you welcomed the message in the midst of severe suffering with the joy given by the Holy Spirit.

2 Timothy 1:8 So do not be ashamed of the testimony about our Lord or of me his prisoner. Rather, join with me in suffering for the gospel, by the power of God.

We suffer to purify us and for perfection:

Hebrews 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the author of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Because the Word tells us:

James 1:4 And let patience have its perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, lacking in nothing.


Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
1 John 1:7 but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanseth us from all sin.



We can not get this way, unless we suffer, we are told to conform to His image, manifest Him!
Romans 8: 29 For whom he foreknew, he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren:

2 Cor 3:18 ut we all, with unveiled face beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord the Spirit.

1 John 4:17 Herein is love made perfect with us, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as he is, even so are we in this world.


John 3:13 And no one hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended out of heaven, even the Son of man, who is in heaven.

 

[Nathan Kendall]

I've had faith by basing on things I can see. God is now asking me to "bump up that faith" to blind faith. Try believing in something you CAN'T see, such as his promises. You can only do that by believing in the Word.
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[whitney]

I've had faith by basing on things I can see. God is now asking me to "bump up that faith" to blind faith. Try believing in something you CAN'T see, such as his promises. You can only do that by believing in the Word.
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Amen Nathan! Faith is believing without seeing, He is "bumping" my faith up, too. Praise Him for His faithfulness!

Blessings to you.

 

[Nathan]

Nathan,
The Word tells us we are dead, but made alive in Christ:

Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Not only is Christ living in you, but He gives life to your mortal body!

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwelleth in you, he that raised up Christ Jesus from the dead shall give life also to your mortal bodies through his Spirit that dwelleth in you.


One thing the Word tells us is, we will suffer (even sickness, the Word never says we will not get sick, what it does say, is Jesus healed us at the cross and we do not have to stay sick).

Philippians 3:10 I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,

1 Thessalonians 1:6 You became imitators of us and of the Lord, for you welcomed the message in the midst of severe suffering with the joy given by the Holy Spirit.

2 Timothy 1:8 So do not be ashamed of the testimony about our Lord or of me his prisoner. Rather, join with me in suffering for the gospel, by the power of God.

We suffer to purify us and for perfection:

Hebrews 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the author of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Because the Word tells us:

James 1:4 And let patience have its perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, lacking in nothing.


Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
1 John 1:7 but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanseth us from all sin.



We can not get this way, unless we suffer, we are told to conform to His image, manifest Him!
Romans 8: 29 For whom he foreknew, he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren:

2 Cor 3:18 ut we all, with unveiled face beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord the Spirit.

1 John 4:17 Herein is love made perfect with us, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as he is, even so are we in this world.


John 3:13 And no one hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended out of heaven, even the Son of man, who is in heaven.

Rockie, these are all taken out of context. I have addressed these in the thread in the CT&A forum on miracles.

Needless to say, they are snippets of the Bible, and when read along with the verses that surround those, you see that our bodies will indeed die and are at the present growing weaker and weaker.

Faith is based upon the freedom from sin now and the life that is to come. Read Hebrews 11 and declare where ONE of them are said to have faith like what is being talked about here. The faith they had was in God and His promises to come. The focus should never be on this life.

 

[Nathan]

I've had faith by basing on things I can see. God is now asking me to "bump up that faith" to blind faith. Try believing in something you CAN'T see, such as his promises. You can only do that by believing in the Word.
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Exactly! We have not received the promises of the eternal body we will live in yet. We will. The focus should be for that time and not here.

 

[Jake]

Rockie, these are all taken out of context. I have addressed these in the thread in the CT&A forum on miracles.

Needless to say, they are snippets of the Bible, and when read along with the verses that surround those, you see that our bodies will indeed die and are at the present growing weaker and weaker.

Faith is based upon the freedom from sin now and the life that is to come. Read Hebrews 11 and declare where ONE of them are said to have faith like what is being talked about here. The faith they had was in God and His promises to come. The focus should never be on this life.

Which ones are taken out of context?
Scripture that tells us we will suffer? Are you standing against the Word and telling me we will not suffer?

We are not to conform to Christ? Are you standing against the Word and telling me we should not be as Christ is in this world?

We are not dead to ourselves and made alive in Christ? Are you standing against the Word and telling me we should allow our flesh to do as it pleases?

 

[Jake]

Exactly! We have not received the promises of the eternal body we will live in yet. We will. The focus should be for that time and not here.

Without us preparing, we will never see "that time".

 

[Nathan]

Which ones are taken out of context?
Scripture that tells us we will suffer? Are you standing against the Word and telling me we will not suffer?

We are not to conform to Christ? Are you standing against the Word and telling me we should not be as Christ is in this world?

We are not dead to ourselves and made alive in Christ? Are you standing against the Word and telling me we should allow our flesh to do as it pleases?

I say out of context because you quote them individually. What you have posted here is correct. We will suffer, we should be like Christ, and we should have control over our flesh.

As it relates to faith and healing, these have no contextual significance. They are 'out of context' in this context. If anything, we should understand that we WILL suffer, even while our bodies are wasting away. We should be like Christ, loving not our own life, but desiring to do the will of the Father. We should take control of our flesh, putting to death the deeds of it, even if this means removing a limb, not praying and having "faith" that it will be 'healed'.

Faith requires action. If our faith is founded in the 'hear and now' then that is where our actions will be. If its in the kingdom to come, the completion of what is taking place now, then thats where our actions will be. We cannot focus on one, without loosing sight of the other. Our bodies WILL stay here. Focus on them and you loose focus on the spiritual body to be given you when Christ comes.

 

[Nathan]

Without us preparing, we will never see "that time".

You will have to explain a little more what you mean for me to understand this.

 

[Jake]

You will have to explain a little more what you mean for me to understand this.

I hope C is not upset about this turn we have taken in his thread.2
Yet, I do not want to dismiss this question.

What I mean by preparing ourselves now is, preparing ourselves spiritually, if we are not prepared for what is coming, we will not be strong enough to stand up for our faith, already in the world people are commanded to denounce their faith, and if they do not, they are killed. I believe this is what is coming. Some Christians will be beheaded for their faith. Are we ready?

We are dead but alive in Christ, we are being transformed, our minds are being renewed. We need to grow in our faith and knowledge of Him, love one another, edify one another, exhibit the Fruit of the Spirit.

Revelation tells us some of us will not die, what if it all happens tomorrow? What if we are the ones who do not see physical death? This is a possibility.

God is teaching us to rely on Him for everything so we are prepared for "the wilderness", the Great Tribulation. We should not be afraid of physical death, but what if He does not allow us to die, then we must rely on Him for everything, our food, our health, our safety.

I believe this is what C's testimony to be about. To stand on the Word, to rely completely on Him for everything, not turning from the left or to the right, but stand firm on Him who will sustain us. Not looking with our eyes, and then become fearful, but standing on the Word in faith.

It's hard for me to believe that you do not believe this?
peace -

 

[Nathan]

We have gotten a little off maybe. But it still revolves around his experience.

We do need to be 'prepared', or rather grounded, in the faith. It is where we will draw our strength from when trials come.

What just does not sit well with me is that this 'faith' spoken of and witnessed too by this experience, is a faith that is based upon signs and wonders. It may sound like countless other stories, but it does not make it right. Believe me, I above all others never seek to demean anyone and their belief. God is the one who calls, He is the one who rebukes. So that is why I simply started asking questions and comparing it to the Bible.

But when questions are answered with statements that do not line up with known truth, it makes me examine even more. The Bereans heard the Gospel Truth preached to them by Paul and yet they still searched daily, not just once, but each day they were told something they looked it up to see if it could be proven.

If we are not rock solid in the written truth then we very well may fall prey to the enemy. That is all I seek.

This body WILL be put off. It WILL be destroyed. WE, who we really are, a soul, will put on a new body, a heavenly body. That may happen to some and they may never die. But just because they do not die, does not mean that the body they live in will not die. We get so focused on the things around us that we have completely lost the simple truth that this shell, tent, jar, dust, flesh, human body we live in is not us. We are a soul, we have a spirit, and we live in a body.

Look into the account of creation. Adam's body was made and created by God from the dust of the earth. It was not until God breathed into him that he became a living being. The flesh is NOTHING! Looking to it for evidence of faith will only serve to take away from the focus on what it needs to be on.

Indeed, the ones who go through the tribulation of the last days MUST rely on God. So what if He does not give you food? What if He allows sickness to come upon you? If your faith is only placed in the faith that was delivered to us, then its not going to matter what happens to you physically. But if your focus is on physical healing and care, then it will be extremely trying.

I believe in healing. I believe in miracles. When they happen I rejoice and give glory to God. But that does not mean I seek them out. They are great things, but they are also deceptive things. God gives Satan the power to be able to do the same things. Here is the difference. When God heals, He simply does it. It takes no effort on our part WHATSOEVER. Read the Biblical accounts. The Biblical accounts were either Him doing it solely for His own purpose, or it happens when people come and say "if you will".

I rely on Him for everything. If He took it all away I would praise Him even still. How can I say that? Because I know what He has prepared for me, and I know what is waiting for me when He comes again.

 

[jasoncran]

What is important is that we live in the Kingdom now.

Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so on earth.

So if you can see sickness in heaven, so let it be on earth.


The Kingdom is now and in our hearts. Sickness is part of the curse and we have been redeemed of the curse. Jesus totally saved us from the curse. Why else would He command us to go out and heal the sick.

If it was "fleshly" to heal these physical bodies, why did Jesus spend so much time healing the sick ?

why then does the lord come at all?i know what you mean but as nathan as defending very well. its funny, the bible promises nothing on eternal bliss till after the death of the saint. otherwise why would the lord say in this world ye shall have troubles but be of good cheer for i have overcame the world.

 

[reba]

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.