I WAS WRONG.....

[Jay T]

In the past I have stated that a sinners record was clean, when they accepted Jesus Christ, as their personal Savior.

BUT, having studied the Sanctuary services in the Old Testament, I find that a person's sins were NOT cleaned off the record books....UNTIL the Day of Atonement, a day of Investigative Judgment.

A person's sins were merely put on hold....UNTIL a Full investigation was made.

The Investigative Judgment was for the purpose of seeing whether the person who had sinned in the past, was really repentant of their past sin(s), and did them no more.


If that person had not given up those sins, they were expelled from the camp of Israel...FOREVER !

Now, did I hear someone say: "Who cares about the Sanctuary services of the past, in the Old Testament times ?"

The Bible tells us that the Sanctuary service on earth, was just a 'copy' of the GREAT Original in heaven.

Jesus Christ is doing TODAY.....exactly what was Practiced in the OT, in regards to the Sanctuary service.
In other words.....the Investigative Judgment is going on at this very minute !

AND, when it is over with, Jesus Christ will come again......

Revelation 22:10 "And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand".

(Judgment Scene.....)
22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
(Judgment Scene, Over with......)

22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

AND...would you believe that the CHURCH....will be JUDGED FIRST ?
1 Peter 4:17 For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God ?
4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

'obey not the Gospel of God ?'

How many people realize that obeying the Gospel means.....keeping all 10 commandments, as found in (Exodus 20:3-17) ?


The righteous....is scarcely saved'......which means Getting 'saved' is not such an easy thing, as a mere belief in Jesus Christ's Death, Burial, and Resurrection.
NO!
There is far more to the Gospel message, than most people believe !

What determines a person's getting into heaven, is HOW one lives a Christian life.....patterned after Christ's example, of sinless living (Romans 5:10 & 1 Peter 2:21,22).

Jesus Christ said: 'Be thou perfect as your Father, which is in heaven is perfect'.
REMEMBER....the Bible NEVER tells a person to do something, UNLESS it also tells the person ...HOW.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

The righteous....is scarcely saved'......which means Getting 'saved' is not such an easy thing, as a mere belief in Jesus Christ's Death, Burial, and Resurrection.

Mere belief in Jesus Christ?

What sort of righteous work (ie: filthy rags) will you be presenting instead of or in addition to what Jesus Christ did on the cross?

Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

 

[Jay T]

Mere belief in Jesus Christ?

Many people think that just believing that Jesus Christ died on the cross....is the whole Gospel message.

What sort of righteous work (ie: filthy rags) will you be presenting instead of or in addition to what Jesus Christ did on the cross?

Jesus taught the living of a Christian lifestyle....to bring glory to God, showing the world that satan is wrong, in his accusations that man CANNOT keep the commandments of God, which are based on the principle of love, to both God and man.

Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Yes, this is true...IF...you look at what man can accomplish on his own.

BUT, with Jesus Christ, living HIS life, within the Christian ....man's efforts combined with the Godly.....can produce a life that prove God right, and satan wrong.

 

[Fnerb]

Yes, this is true...IF...you look at what man can accomplish on his own.

BUT, with Jesus Christ, living HIS life, within the Christian ....man's efforts combined with the Godly.....can produce a life that prove God right, and satan wrong.

This is true. Only someone whom is a member of the family of Christ can do anything to please God. Hebrews 11:6 tells us that "without faith it is impossible to please God."

This is much different though than saying that these God-pleasing works do anything to add to our Salvation.

 

[unred typo]

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

What sort of righteous work (ie: filthy rags) will you be presenting instead of or in addition to what Jesus Christ did on the cross?

Yes, this is true...IF...you look at what man can accomplish on his own.

This is true. Only someone whom is a member of the family of Christ can do anything to please God.

I wish you would stop using God’s word out of context. He is NOT saying in Isaiah that all of our righteousnesses are as filthy rags. He is saying that all the righteousnesses of the Israelites who were worshipping idols, committing adultery and sacrificing their own children, were as filthy rags. If you are leading a double life of hypocracy, pretending to worship God while doing despicable, debased sins in secret, you can include yourself, I suppose but don’t include the entire world and the entire family of mankind. It’s not true. Don’t take my word for it. Don’t take any man’s word for it. Let God be true and every man a liar. Let the Bible speak for itself. Pleeeeease read the verses in context and the history surrounding Isaiah’s statements.

Does anyone have another verse that says God hates all our righteousness or is this it?

 

[Fnerb]

Does anyone have another verse that says God hates all our righteousness or is this it?

I don't believe I ever said that God hates all our righteousness. I believe I said that no man that isn't a Child of God can please Him.

I fail to see how by me doing good works, God is going to grant me addmitence into heaven. Romans 4 points to the very fact that my righteousness is a product of faith.

One whom is saved will want to serve their Lord! Will relish the opportunities to share the good news of the Gospel. He will not sit back and say, "I'm saved, I can just coast through life now."

 

[Packrat]

Many people think that just believing that Jesus Christ died on the cross....is the whole Gospel message.[

If that's the case, then there are Many misinformed people out there. The gospel message is one of trust in God's ability and willingness to save you from your sins through his work through his only begotten Son Jesus the Christ. Have trust in God, and you are saved. Merely believe that God exists or merely believe that Christ was crucified, and you are not saved.

 

[francisdesales]

I don't believe I ever said that God hates all our righteousness. I believe I said that no man that isn't a Child of God can please Him.

A person who is pleasing to God is already a "child" of God. One who deligently seeks to please God is doing so by the gift given to him by God Himself. This is seen in many verses, such as:

But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Heb 11:6

Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 1 John 4:7-9

I fail to see how by me doing good works, God is going to grant me addmitence into heaven. Romans 4 points to the very fact that my righteousness is a product of faith.

For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; Rom 2:13-15

My faith is a product of the gift of God - and thus, I cannot boast. That is the point that so many people seem to miss... EVERYTHING in the supernatural realm we receive as a gift from God. Whether it is the faith we have or the love we show to others, it is all brought to fruitation by the Spirit of God who blows where He wills. Thus, it is a false dichotomy to place faith in some higher position than love or good deeds. We will certainly be justified, seen as righteous, in God's eyes as a result of our cooperation with God's gifts, nothing from OURSELVES. Scriptures clearly note that we are justified BECAUSE of our cooperation with God, as seen through our good deeds. Again, we cannot boast because they are not from ourselves alone. Christ clearly tells us we can do no good unless we abide in Him.

To place faith in some higher position than love is to misunderstand Scriptures. Faith without love is nothing. One must possess both to enter into eternal life...

though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed [the poor], and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. 1 Cor 13:2-3

For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. Gal 5:6

God is love. Without love abiding in us, we cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Faith alone doesn't save.

What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? ... Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. James 2:14,17

Now, where in Scriptures do we find an automatic conveyor belt that tells us that once we have faith, works of love will automatically follow? The very fact that Paul over and over exhorts his readers to works of love (to Christians of faith) tells us that love does NOT automatically follow from faith. We know we cannot love without faith, but this is not some automatic process. Love goes against the "typical" concepts that our culture holds as near and dear.

Selflessness?

Patience?

No envy?

Bears all things?

Not the message we hear today about what love is. As a result, it is a constant battle to love others, even if we DO have faith in Jesus Christ. Having faith, then, is not enough to enter the Kingdom, because by our deeds of love we are justified, not by our talk of faith. (cf Rom 2:13-15; James 2:14-18)

Regards

 

[golfjack]

reply

Fran. In Galations, is Paul talking about God's love or our love? I believe God loves everyone, whether Jew or Gentile. By faith we can enter into His rest that makes us New Creatures in Christ Jesus. Faith does worketh by love, and many Christians miss this part. Many Christians will make heaven, but they will not have any reward. Paul was referring to people who never grow in various areas of their Christian walk and never attain to a high degree of spirituality. All of our works will be tried by fire ( 1 Cor. 3:13). Bottom line Fran. I think you should really look for scriptures that define God's love for us, rather than build up a sin conscious versus a God conscious. If you do this, you will find that your life will change day by day, and won't have that may problems with acts of sin.



May God bless, golfjack

 

[golfjack]

reply

Let's talk about God's love since love was brought up: I'm sure if we began to be honest with ourselves and began to measure ourselves with God's love, every one of us would have to mark a Big F ( for failure on the top of our personal score sheet).

Failed! Do you know why? Not because we are failing willfully, but because the Gospel has not been fully preached to us as it should have been.

We can't do anything about the past. That's history. But we can change the future. As for me and my house, we are going to secure all the promises of God, because faith worketh by love.

The kind of love I mean will take the Word in your mouth and your faith and will turn them into a steamroller for God. Nothing will be able to stand in your way, nothing whatsoever. you will roll right over obstacles. If the deevil stands in your way, you will turn on the love and roll right over him, praising Jesus all the while. You will begin to see things happen.

The Bible says demons believe and even tremble, but they never receive anything. Why? Because they don't have any love. They are filled with hate and fear.

Because we must have faith that works by love, it would be well for us to see how that kind of love gets started, and what its characteristics are.

Proverbs 10:122 says, love covereth all sin. First Peter 4:8 says, charity ( or love) shall cover the multitude of sins. Put these two scriptures together, annd they say, love covers all sins, even when there is a multitude of them.

Love must begin to work with the sin problem. Love will not work for you until you are born again and the love of God has covered your sins.

Think of it: This real, genuine love of God will cover, hide, and put out of sight more sins than we can name.

For God so loved the world, that He ggave His only begotten Son... ( John 3:16). For what? To cover our sins. That's the first area of love. God's love covers sin.

Many people today are saying, You need to confess every sin you've ever done. They talk about inner healing. They say you need to go back and drag out all of the sins from your past and confess them.

No, you don't. All you need to do is get the love of God to cover that multitude of your sins in the New Birth. Dragging up all of your old sins will not do you any good; it will just bring condemnation on you, and you've got enough of that already with the sins you can remember at this moment.



May God bless, Golfjack

 

[Fnerb]

A person who is pleasing to God is already a "child" of God. One who deligently seeks to please God is doing so by the gift given to him by God Himself. This is seen in many verses, such as:

I agree and didn't say otherwise (at least, didn't mean too). Any person can do good works whether they are a Child of God or not. In fact you quoted the very same scripture that I did.

My faith is a product of the gift of God - and thus, I cannot boast. That is the point that so many people seem to miss... EVERYTHING in the supernatural realm we receive as a gift from God. Whether it is the faith we have or the love we show to others, it is all brought to fruitation by the Spirit of God who blows where He wills.

Again, I agree.

Not the message we hear today about what love is. As a result, it is a constant battle to love others, even if we DO have faith in Jesus Christ. Having faith, then, is not enough to enter the Kingdom, because by our deeds of love we are justified, not by our talk of faith. (cf Rom 2:13-15; James 2:14-18)

Justified by works? I thought I was justified by the cross? By Christs blood...

2 Corinthians 5:
18All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

Wouldn't the "message of reconciliation" be the Gospel? Or, the good news of what Christ has done for us?

Again, i'm not disbuting the fruits of faith. What i'm saying is that I don't see how these are the means of justification.

You are right, it's not faith that saves, but the object of faith that saves ... Christ.

 

[francisdesales]

Justified by works? I thought I was justified by the cross? By Christs blood...

As I tried to say before, there is a false dichotomy being applied by those who separate the works of Christ on the cross, and my works IN Christ in love. My good deeds, done while abiding in Christ, are not mine alone. I cannot boast because they DEPEND on Christ! However, the Scriptures clearly tell us that we will be judged based on "our" deeds (Christ is not judged, we are judged, both Christian and pagan). As a result, one must not cancel out one dimension to concentrate on the other. BOTH good deeds inspired by the Spirit and faith in God inspired by the Spirit are needed to be just and pleasing in God's eyes.

Can I boast of any of this? No.

But does God save me without me? No.

We cooperate with God, both our faith and our loving actions. To what degree or manner? We don't know. We just know that we have free will and can refuse the grace of faith or love in every day actions.

Also, I would like to just point out that the Bible uses the words "justification", "sanctification", and "salvation" interchangeably. Thus, we can say, with Scriptures, that man is justified by faith and justified by good deeds, because Justification is not a one-time event.

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

Re: reply

Faith does worketh by love, and many Christians miss this part. Many Christians will make heaven, but they will not have any reward.

Well, the first part I agree with, but the second part, you are sadly mistaken...

HOW can you say there will be no reward in heaven????

Being with Christ is not a reward? That is a ridiculous statement. EVERYONE in heaven will receive Jesus Christ, a reward that greatly exceeds ANYTHING we can imagine here on earth, as Paul says...

Paul was referring to people who never grow in various areas of their Christian walk and never attain to a high degree of spirituality. All of our works will be tried by fire ( 1 Cor. 3:13).

Continue reading 1 Cor 3, Golfjack, esp. 1 Cor 3:17. Here is the major contradiction in your theology. Your explanation of 1 Cor 3:13 does not explain what happens in 1 Cor 3:17. Can you point out to me where in Scripture a "bad deed" is NOT considered a sin? Where exactly does the Bible say that a sinful act will receive a lesser reward?

Degrees of rewards in heaven is totally against the idea of salvation by faith alone! One is either saved or not. There is no "barely" being saved... 1 Cor 3:12-17 is a major weak point in "sola fide".

Bottom line Fran. I think you should really look for scriptures that define God's love for us, rather than build up a sin conscious versus a God conscious. If you do this, you will find that your life will change day by day, and won't have that may problems with acts of sin.

I have posted on many occasions God's love for us. Did I not quote from 1 Cor 13? I really do not understand where you get this "sin conscious vs. God conscious" idea from my writings. Because I point out that you may fall away from God? By telling you to persevere in works of love? By telling you that you are not justified by faith alone?

My life has changed and continues to change. I do not think you are in a position to judge my spiritual life based on your past experiences as a nominal Catholic who didn't know his faith. I'm sorry that things didn't work out for you in Catholicism, for whatever reason... But that doesn't mean that every Catholic suffers spiritually. Those who take their faith seriously will reap the rewards. I do not obey the commandments out of some "sin consciousness", but out of love for God. Obedience to them makes me more fully human, more Christ-like. Weren't you taught that?

Regards

 

[unred typo]

I guess I’m having a problem of perception here. When we do anything, we are doing it, and we will get credit (or blame) for doing it. When God does something, he is doing it, not us, and he gets credit for it, not us. When he lays down his life for our sin, he gets credited for saving us, whether we avail ourselves of his blood in repentance of our sins or not. When he tells us how to be saved, he gets credit for making a way of salvation for us, whether we follow him or not. If we follow him and do what he says, we are credited with the salvation that he provided for us. These are works of faith, our faith, not Christ‘s faith. He doesn’t give us faith. He does things that show us we can trust him. When we see how he is faithful to take care of us, we gain more trust in his ability to take care of us. Our faith increases because he has shown himself trustworthy.

 

[francisdesales]

Re: reply

Let's talk about God's love since love was brought up: I'm sure if we began to be honest with ourselves and began to measure ourselves with God's love, every one of us would have to mark a Big F ( for failure on the top of our personal score sheet).

Failed! Do you know why? Not because we are failing willfully, but because the Gospel has not been fully preached to us as it should have been.

It is not surprising that you have such a view on salvation. To you, salvation is merely some sort of legal issue - one in which you must either be perfect or you fail utterly.

I do not find that idea in the Bible, when considering God's children. God does not expect His righteous to be perfect or sinless. Time and time again, the Jews sin, they turn to Him, and God forgives them, reestablishing the covenant between God and man. Now, for those who believe they can be saved by adherence to the Law, they will require perfection. But we are not under the Law, but are under Grace.

While the New Covenant has improved, that doesn't mean we are now required to be perfect. We are children of God. At what point, Old Testament or New Testament, does God expect His children to be absolutely perfect? Nowhere. We don't expect our own children to be perfect. We love them, even when they are NOT perfect.

Many people today are saying, You need to confess every sin you've ever done. They talk about inner healing. They say you need to go back and drag out all of the sins from your past and confess them.

No, you don't. All you need to do is get the love of God to cover that multitude of your sins in the New Birth. Dragging up all of your old sins will not do you any good; it will just bring condemnation on you, and you've got enough of that already with the sins you can remember at this moment.

Clearly, you are unfamiliar with the power of confessing and being forgiven. And I am not even speaking of sacramental Confession. Just going to your wife whom you have wronged, confessing to her, apologizing, and receiving her forgiveness.

Apparently, if you sinned against your wife, you would tell her...

"who cares if I sinned against you, why should I care how you feel? Why drag up the fact that I slept with another woman? Why condemn me? I'm not sorry and God 'covers everything with His Love' already, anyways. I'm already saved, sister..."

And this is love, in your mind?

Wow.

 

[francisdesales]

I guess I’m having a problem of perception here. When we do anything, we are doing it, and we will get credit (or blame) for doing it. When God does something, he is doing it, not us, and he gets credit for it, not us.

Unred,

Catholics believe that God and man cooperate and continue to cooperate in the salvation of men. God abides in us, giving us the will and desire to love or to have faith. However, this love or faith, these movements of the Spirit, can be rejected. Thus, I am credited with righteousness when I cooperate, but I CANNOT come to God ALONE. Christ says that we can do NO GOOD unless we abide in Him. I believe Phil 2:12-13 displays this cooperation very well between God and man. As God's child, He happily will aid us, being pleased with those who diligently seek Him.

Thus, in salvation, it is man whom is judged - but man's good deeds were the result of God's graces. They were not man alone doing the deed, thus, we will not be able to boast. If we did it by ourselves, then we would have the right to boast. But we can only boast in Christ's love, as it is not I who lives, but Christ who lives in me... (and so forth).

When he lays down his life for our sin, he gets credited for saving us, whether we avail ourselves of his blood in repentance of our sins or not. When he tells us how to be saved, he gets credit for making a way of salvation for us, whether we follow him or not. If we follow him and do what he says, we are credited with the salvation that he provided for us. These are works of faith, our faith, not Christ‘s faith. He doesn’t give us faith. He does things that show us we can trust him. When we see how he is faithful to take care of us, we gain more trust in his ability to take care of us. Our faith increases because he has shown himself trustworthy.

No one can have faith unless God places within us the will to follow Him. Faith is a gift from God - one that we certainly can develop, but a gift just the same. Otherwise, we could boast in our own developed faith. If man is justified by having faith - AND he can develop it without it being a gift, than faith is no longer a gift, but is something we can boast in...

For example:

For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God. Eph 2:8

Throughout the Scriptures, Old and New Testaments, the sacred writers noted that all was a gift from God - and we cannot do without God. On the other hand, God expects us to use those gifts and to obey Him and love Him as part of the Covenant - a mutual relationship.

I hope this helps answer your question.

Regards

 

[Fnerb]

As I tried to say before, there is a false dichotomy being applied by those who separate the works of Christ on the cross, and my works IN Christ in love. My good deeds, done while abiding in Christ, are not mine alone. I cannot boast because they DEPEND on Christ! However, the Scriptures clearly tell us that we will be judged based on "our" deeds (Christ is not judged, we are judged, both Christian and pagan). As a result, one must not cancel out one dimension to concentrate on the other. BOTH good deeds inspired by the Spirit and faith in God inspired by the Spirit are needed to be just and pleasing in God's eyes.

Can I boast of any of this? No.

But does God save me without me? No.

We cooperate with God, both our faith and our loving actions. To what degree or manner? We don't know. We just know that we have free will and can refuse the grace of faith or love in every day actions.


Regards

I guess this is where one of the wedges is drawn between our doctrine. (In other words, Catholic Vs. Lutheran teaching)...

God determined to save us the same way he created us, with no help from us (Galatians 2:15-16, Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 4:4-5).

I do not find that idea in the Bible, when considering God's children. God does not expect His righteous to be perfect or sinless. Time and time again, the Jews sin, they turn to Him, and God forgives them, reestablishing the covenant between God and man. Now, for those who believe they can be saved by adherence to the Law, they will require perfection. But we are not under the Law, but are under Grace.

While the New Covenant has improved, that doesn't mean we are now required to be perfect. We are children of God. At what point, Old Testament or New Testament, does God expect His children to be absolutely perfect? Nowhere. We don't expect our own children to be perfect. We love them, even when they are NOT perfect.

God doesn't demand perfection?! Really? Then why did Jesus have to come? Why did he have to live a perfect life and die that we might be saved?

And what of Romans 11:5-6?

 

[francisdesales]

I guess this is where one of the wedges is drawn between our doctrine. (In other words, Catholic Vs. Lutheran teaching)...

God determined to save us the same way he created us, with no help from us.

You define "salvation" differently than I do. I define salvation as not ONLY a past event, but also an ongoing event. With that in mind, can you now understand why love is important in salvation?

God doesn't demand perfection?! Really? Then why did Jesus have to come? Why did he have to live a perfect life and die that we might be saved?

And what of Romans 11:5-6?

Perhaps I should rephase. God doesn't demand perfection for us to be saved... We are saved by grace. We are loved despite our imperfection. We don't have to earn God's love by being perfect. Nor do we have to be perfect to enter heaven. God demands our obedience and love, but not perfect obedience and love.

Jesus came because man ALONE could not redeem himself.

He lived a perfect life of obedience to the Father's will.

What about Romans 11? I have no problems with that. Of course we are saved by grace, not by our OWN works. However, our works IN CHRIST are NOT our OWN works. They are OUR works (mine and Christ). Since we can do nothing good without Christ, our loving works cannot be our own works, but God and my works. This is grace, because my own works alone do not save me. I am justified by good deeds throughout my life (Romans 2), but these deeds are not mine alone, so I cannot boast.

Regards

 

[unred typo]

God abides in us, giving us the will and desire to love or to have faith.

I agree that God gives us the will and desire to love or to have faith. He gives us the will or desire to love the same way my Dad gave me the will and the desire to do my chores. With the promise of rewards and the threat of punishment. My Dad gave me faith in his word by always making good on his promises or threats. That is how I understand these expressions. In real and everyday life situations, not some spiritual metaphysical abstract. Do you see where I’m coming from here?

Example:

I get cancer. It’s bad, it’s inoperable. I have learned from the Bible to pray and because I see that it worked for those people, I have enough faith to pray for healing. God heals me. Now I have more faith. God increased my faith in his ability to heal me by healing me. He has given me faith to believe that he is able to heal, not by a spiritual injection of faith but by a tangible display of power.

 

[Oscar3]

In the past I have stated that a sinners record was clean, when they accepted Jesus Christ, as their personal Savior.

Yep Mine were. This does not mean I am sinless, but it does mean that all past, present and future sins are paid for in full.

BUT, having studied the Sanctuary services in the Old Testament, I find that a person's sins were NOT cleaned off the record books....UNTIL the Day of Atonement, a day of Investigative Judgment.

This would be true if we lived under the law.
Oh wait, you still do live under the law. :o

A person's sins were merely put on hold....UNTIL a Full investigation was made.

What does this mean? :roll:

The Investigative Judgment was for the purpose of seeing whether the person who had sinned in the past, was really repentant of their past sin(s), and did them no more.

:roll:

If that person had not given up those sins, they were expelled from the camp of Israel...FOREVER !

Now, did I hear someone say: "Who cares about the Sanctuary services of the past, in the Old Testament times ?"

The Bible tells us that the Sanctuary service on earth, was just a 'copy' of the GREAT Original in heaven.

I thank Jesus for the cross

Jesus Christ is doing TODAY.....exactly what was Practiced in the OT, in regards to the Sanctuary service.
In other words.....the Investigative Judgment is going on at this very minute !

AND, when it is over with, Jesus Christ will come again......

Revelation 22:10 "And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand".

(Judgment Scene.....)
22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
(Judgment Scene, Over with......)

22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

AND...would you believe that the CHURCH....will be JUDGED FIRST ?
1 Peter 4:17 For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God ?
4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

'obey not the Gospel of God ?'

How many people realize that obeying the Gospel means.....keeping all 10 commandments, as found in (Exodus 20:3-17) ?


The righteous....is scarcely saved'......which means Getting 'saved' is not such an easy thing, as a mere belief in Jesus Christ's Death, Burial, and Resurrection.
NO!
There is far more to the Gospel message, than most people believe !

What determines a person's getting into heaven, is HOW one lives a Christian life.....patterned after Christ's example, of sinless living (Romans 5:10 & 1 Peter 2:21,22).

Jesus Christ said: 'Be thou perfect as your Father, which is in heaven is perfect'.
REMEMBER....the Bible NEVER tells a person to do something, UNLESS it also tells the person ...HOW.

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Still taking the verses out of context like the false teacher you are. :-?

42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 He who is of God hears God's words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God."