I WAS WRONG.....

[Solo]

I do agree that the first thing that people need to do is to learn what Salvation really is, but I do not agree that you have a correct understanding of salvation.

Jesus Christ knows what Salvation is......'go and sin no more' (John 5:14 & 8:11)

Jesus Christ knows exactly what Salvation is, and your understanding of Salvation is deeply flawed. Let us see what Jesus teaches about what one is to do in order to enter the Kingdom of God.

First, when Jesus is speaking to Nicodemus, He says that unless one is born again, (born from above after being born in the flesh), one cannot even see the Kingdom of God.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, F1 he cannot see the kingdom of God. John 3:3

Jesus also tells Nicodemus that unless one is born again, born from above, one cannot enter the Kingdom of God.

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. F2 John 3:5-7

F1 again: or, from above.
F2 again: or, from above

Before one can keep the commandments of God, one must be born again. Salvation consists of God providing a way in which sinners can overcome sin in the world, so that they may one day be righteous in the Kingdom of God. One does not achieve Salvation by being good and obeying the commandments of God; one achieves Salvation through FAITH in Jesus Christ and the obedience of Jesus unto death on the cross. His resurrection has given us Salvation, that when he returns we will also be resurrected; not of our works but by the works of God. After we are saved, we become obedient to His word keeping the commandments of God.

Your salvation is based on how good you can be in this world hoping that through Jesus you can be as righteous as Him since you became a believer.

See .....you just proved you have no idea, what I know the Bible is saying to me.

Your message of Salvation is that one must become a member of the remnant Seventh-day Adventist church, keep the Sabbath day Holy as the Seventh-day Adventists teach, or however you feel it ought to be kept, and that apart from doing those things, one cannot accept the payment that Jesus Christ paid on the cross. Your understanding of being born again, born of God includes a works understanding which is unscriptural.

The problem is, that you still sin,...

I see, then you have set yourself up as my Judge ?
And, all this time I thought God was the Judge.

God is your judge and here are His words:

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. 1 John 1:8-10

According to the Lord Jesus Christ, all are condemned until they are born again, born from above. This process of being born from above is initiated by God the Spirit, through the shed blood of God the Son, so that one day we may have face-to-face glorified fellowship with our creator, God the Father.

Your own words have manifested your unbelief in the true Salvation message of Jesus Christ.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. F3 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. John 3:17-21

F3 reproved: or, discovered

Here are God's commandments that we should keep:

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. 1 John 3:23-24

Also, anyone that says that they have no sin is a liar.

1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. 1 John 2:1-6

...and you live in a fantasy world where you believe that you are part of those that believe the truth.

Well, the Bible does provide the test as to who has the truth of God ......
Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them.

When did the Law of Moses cease? What is the difference between the Law of Moses and the Law of God? Is the Law of God that which makes us righteous?

And....God describes HIS people as those who keep the Law of God, thru their faith in Jesus Christ.......
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

And what does patience of the saints mean? Is Moses a saint? Are Jews saints? Is David a saint?

Did Moses, David, and the chosen Jews keep the commandments of God or the faith of Jesus?

Or is the faith of Jesus that which we abide in since he fulfilled the Law?

...Until you understand who you are in the light of Jesus Christ, you will continue in your woeful struggle hoping to be right with the Lord.

Just remember....those who DO NOT keep the commandments....DON'T Know Jesus Christ.....
1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

I'll let you be the Judge, of that Bible text.

Those that are born again, born from above keep the commandments of God. Your interpretation of how to keep the commandments of God have thrown you way off course. Hopefully, one day you will be able to transform your mind with the word of God.

14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. 15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. 16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? 18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. 19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure F4 our hearts before him. 20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. 22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. John 3:14-24

 

[Jay T]

I hear a lot of railing against JayT for keeping the commandments, but I have yet to hear anyone refute the scripture he keeps posting as his reason for keeping them...

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

It would be nice to see someone explain to JayT why the above verses are a lie, if thats what you believe...instead of constantly attack his salvation.

Yes, I'm curious as well.

Please show me, that what is said in Scripture (above Scripture) is a lie ?


Also remember, that NO ONE can keep the 10 commandments...UNLESS one is born-again !

 

[Solo]

Yes, I'm curious as well.

Please show me, that what is said in Scripture (above Scripture) is a lie ?


Also remember, that NO ONE can keep the 10 commandments...UNLESS one is born-again !

How does one get born again without keeping the ten commandments? By your teachings, NO ONE in the Old Testament was born again because none of them kept the ten commandments. Noah got drunk after the flood was over, David commited adultery with Bathsheba after he had Uriah killed, Moses murdered an Egyptian (prior to the Law), Solomon committed many sins, Most of the Kings of Israel were considered wicked, etc. etc. etc.

The only man that ever kept the ten commandments was Jesus Christ, and that is what is meant by the statement that Jesus fulfilled the law. Those that are born again rest in Jesus' fulfillment of the law, and are bound to walk as He has walked, but if we fall, He is there as our advocate to pick us up and continue to sanctify us. Keeping the Law does not guarantee anyone's entrance into the Kingdom of God. Notice in the Scripture below, that those who break one of the least of the commandments will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. They are in Heaven. Those that shall keep and teach the commandments will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. Keeping the commandments does not bring one to Salvation, but Salvation comes by faith in Jesus Christ. When one comes to a faith in Jesus Christ, they are born again, sealed by the Holy Spirit who teaches and guides one on their path of sanctification.

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:17-19

 

[Jay T]

How does one get born again without keeping the ten commandments?

The purpose of the 10 commandments, merely show that a aperson NEEDS Jesus Christ

By your teachings, NO ONE in the Old Testament was born again because none of them kept the ten commandments. Noah got drunk after the flood was over, David commited adultery with Bathsheba after he had Uriah killed, Moses murdered an Egyptian (prior to the Law), Solomon committed many sins, Most of the Kings of Israel were considered wicked, etc. etc. etc.

Ever hear the word 'repentance' ?

The only man that ever kept the ten commandments was Jesus Christ,

What about ALL those people who God says kept the commandments of God ?
Abraham ?
Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Job ?
1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name [was] Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil. 1:2 And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters.
1:3 His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.
1:4 And his sons went and feasted [in their] houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.
1:5 And it was so, when the days of [their] feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings [according] to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.
1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that [there is] none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Not even mentioning those people in Revelation 14......who are without fault before the throne of God(Verses 4,5).....because they kept the commandments of God (verse 14).

and that is what is meant by the statement that Jesus fulfilled the law.

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Those that are born again rest in Jesus' fulfillment of the law, and are bound to walk as He has walked, but if we fall, He is there as our advocate to pick us up and continue to sanctify us. Keeping the Law does not guarantee anyone's entrance into the Kingdom of God.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Notice in the Scripture below, that those who break one of the least of the commandments will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. They are in Heaven. Those that shall keep and teach the commandments will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. Keeping the commandments does not bring one to Salvation, but Salvation comes by faith in Jesus Christ.

It requires the faith in Jesus Christ TO KEEP the commandments of God.....
Romans 10:4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

I'm Hoping to catch you on this one.....as I'm sure you do not know what it is saying.

When one comes to a faith in Jesus Christ, they are born again, sealed by the Holy Spirit who teaches and guides one on their path of sanctification.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:17-19

That very Bible context shows, that the 4th commandment, the 7th day sabbath is still alive by true Christians, everywhere.

And, do I not tell people about the commandments of God ?