If God Exists, Why Is There Evil? By Norman Geisler

[for_his_glory]

Study it?
Have I just come to this conclusion?
If you check, you'll find that there is no theologian who can answer the question of evil. It has taken many turns to arrive at this conclusion..

If you do not believe it was Satan's influence in the beginning that brought evil into the world than I don't know what more I could say to you. I see Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 as a dual reference and will stand by that as when was the king of Tyre ever in the garden of Eden.

 

[for_his_glory]

Two theories. They can both be right at the same time.

1). Evil exists because we turned away from God. The world is the way it is because God hasn't fixed it yet after we turned away.

2). this much evil is allowed to exist so that it will never be tried again. Never turn from God again.

If right then these two theories give me hope that one day we will be rid of every kind of evil, and that in that day the no one would ever consider the evils that are common place in the world today.

Evil can never be rid of until the one who influences evil is taken out of this world and cast into the lake of fire. Even though the flood in Noah's day wiped out all that was evil it still did not wipe out the one who influences evil, but gave a new beginning that man would turn away from the influence and follow the God of all creation. This as we see did not work because of influence of evil. Was it Gods fault, no, as God gave man another chance, but influence once again became the principality of the world as man turned from God to follow it. This will be until the last day when Gods longsuffering and patience has wore out, God knowing the name of the last one who will turn back to Him and the influence is cast into the lake of fire along with all those who have ever been influenced to turn away from God.

 

[GodsGrace]

the author at no time stated they had the exact truth .i posted this because it had some good meat in it... i really fail to understand the backlash . its like going to church and hearing a message from the pastor. then nit pick it it to death.. a former pastor once said preaching is like eating chicken you eat the meat and throw the bones a way . know then the debate over Lucifer name even existing exist i dont believe any person can say they hold absolute truth other than what scriptures has to say but no the author never used the words he holds all truth... that is my point so why should it even be brought up

If you didn't want the article knit-picked, why post it?

 

[GodsGrace]

If you do not believe it was Satan's influence in the beginning that brought evil into the world than I don't know what more I could say to you. I see Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 as a dual reference and will stand by that as when was the king of Tyre ever in the garden of Eden.

You don't know what more to say because there's nothing more to say.
Where did Satan get his evil influence from if God is all good?
If you go back enough, you're left with no answer.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

Why hasn't He fixed it yet if He's a God of love and He sees us suffering?
Tried again? Like, WHEN? This is it. At the end there won't be any "again".
Only the New Earth. (which God could have created from the beginning).

I don't know why God hasn't fixed it yet. I really don't. But as far as
I know there's a reason for our rebellion. Like a kid rebelling against their parent when they are young, but later when they grow up they know better. Our evil might be a cause for us to never turn away again. So that the New Heavens and New Earth are never tempted by evil again.

 

[GodsGrace]

I don't know why God hasn't fixed it yet. I really don't. But as far as
I know there's a reason for our rebellion. Like a kid rebelling against their parent when they are young, but later when they grow up they know better. Our evil might be a cause for us to never turn away again. So that the New Heavens and New Earth are never tempted by evil again.

What do you mean by "our evil"?

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

Evil can never be rid of until the one who influences evil is taken out of this world and cast into the lake of fire. Even though the flood in Noah's day wiped out all that was evil it still did not wipe out the one who influences evil, but gave a new beginning that man would turn away from the influence and follow the God of all creation. This as we see did not work because of influence of evil. Was it Gods fault, no, as God gave man another chance, but influence once again became the principality of the world as man turned from God to follow it. This will be until the last day when Gods longsuffering and patience has wore out, God knowing the name of the last one who will turn back to Him and the influence is cast into the lake of fire along with all those who have ever been influenced to turn away from God.

In Revelations there's a section where Satan is put in the dungeon of hell, for 1000 years. Then after that he is released to try and sway the people again. After that he is put in hell again forever. I'm not saying that now satan's influence isn't strong, but my hope is that eventually evil will be rid of because no one will ever make the same crime that Satan made. Satan will be gone, banished, and hopefully even when he comes back his influence will be small and easily stamped out and turned away from. Imagine if Eve did that back in Genesis. Now imagine if after that. After Satan is gone no one filled with pride or ambition, or greed says to themself to be as God is. Or to over throw Him. No one causes the rebellion that is the state the world is in now.

That is my hope. That we exist in suffering now so that it will never never happen again.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

What do you mean by "our evil"?

When I sin it is evil. It is my own actions. When the world sins it is our evil. Our constant state of the world. I don't think the bible says it wrong when it says to God we are like dirty rags. Nor do I think it's wrong when the bible says God loves us, and has come to redeem us, and cleanse us. Washed in the blood of Jesus. Isn't that what we are? Saved and washed. Then as we grow continually cleansed and made to be more like Jesus and less like the dirt and grime that was part of us before? We are dirty rags to God, and He has come to clean us. To be His. That is His love. But our world is duet and grime, it is rebellion and sin. It is so pervasive it is part of the whole world and part of everyone in it. Therefore the evil, even if it comes from Satan, is ours because we are part of it so much.

 

[GodsGrace]

When I sin it is evil. It is my own actions. When the world sins it is our evil. Our constant state of the world. I don't think the bible says it wrong when it says to God we are like dirty rags. Nor do I think it's wrong when the bible says God loves us, and has come to redeem us, and cleanse us. Washed in the blood of Jesus. Isn't that what we are? Saved and washed. Then as we grow continually cleansed and made to be more like Jesus and less like the dirt and grime that was part of us before? We are dirty rags to God, and He has come to clean us. To be His. That is His love. But our world is duet and grime, it is rebellion and sin. It is so pervasive it is part of the whole world and part of everyone in it. Therefore the evil, even if it comes from Satan, is ours because we are part of it so much.

OK, I agree with this.
However, this would be the evil that man does.
Usually when we speak about the problem of evil, it's the evil we have no control over.
For instance, sickness, natural disasters.
Romans does speak of how even nature is waiting for redemption.
This is the evil I'm speaking of and for which theologians have found no answer.

 

[for_his_glory]

You don't know what more to say because there's nothing more to say.
Where did Satan get his evil influence from if God is all good?
If you go back enough, you're left with no answer.

The answer is found in Genesis 3:1; Isaiah 14; Ezekiel 28; Matthew 25:41; 2 Peter 2:4; Jude 1:6; Rev 12:7-9; Rev 20:7-10 which I have already given to show it was Satan who cause himself to fall from heaven and become the evil principality of this world.

I will give one more scripture:
1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

how does the Devil do this, by influencing those who have turned from God and have become lovers of self and enjoy worldly pleasures such as Colossians 3: 5-6 fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: Galatians 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

OK, I agree with this.
However, this would be the evil that man does.
Usually when we speak about the problem of evil, it's the evil we have no control over.
For instance, sickness, natural disasters.
Romans does speak of how even nature is waiting for redemption.
This is the evil I'm speaking of and for which theologians have found no answer.

Israel was promised that if they opey God's laws He would bless them. And if they turned away there would be consquences. The evil you speak of is still part of the evil in the world because we have not followed God. I believe it that by God's hand evil can be swept from our mists. But we need to follow God as a people, not just as Indivuals. We need to be mature in Christ as nations not as indivuals in order to remove those evils. At least that's my opinion. I also believe that evil can happen to good people (good in a comparative sence) because God lets us grow sometimes through hardship, and because there is an active war between the forces of good and evil around us.

Don't know about theologians. There is ongoing history and great minds throughout the ages trying to tackle the issues we have. Some of the issues are more complex because we see the events throughout history as a challenge or a comfirmation of theological thought. And for that I can speak very little about it. But from my limited understanding, from just my own life and the study of the bible, my figuring is that if we turn to God as a people He will heal us. And conversely if we don't, we will be in a state of destruction from the evils that ravage the world as a whole.

Again, just my limited understanding. And most likely way off the mark.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

Wondering. Here is an example in the bible of turning away from God and affecting everything around you. You have probabley read what happened to David after he slept with a married woman and sent her husband in a place for him to die. What were the consquences? God told him that the child she bore would die, and that a son of his will rebel and cause the nation to turn from David. When it happened David ran and hid, because of the warning, until God's judgment was satified. In this way I think our evil has consquences outside of just their own actions, and could very well be an extension of an explaination to the great evils plaguing the world.

 

[GodsGrace]

Wondering. Here is an example in the bible of turning away from God and affecting everything around you. You have probabley read what happened to David after he slept with a married woman and sent her husband in a place for him to die. What were the consquences? God told him that the child she bore would die, and that a son of his will rebel and cause the nation to turn from David. When it happened David ran and hid, because of the warning, until God's judgment was satified. In this way I think our evil has consquences outside of just their own actions, and could very well be an extension of an explaination to the great evils plaguing the world.

I agree with everything you've said.
But it doesn't answer the question of evil.
Of course evil has consequences.
It doesn't answer what got evil started...
For instance, could there be a good God and an evil God?
Maybe God isn't all good?
Maybe he has no power over Satan or evil?
These are the questions that result from the problem of evil.

 

[ezra]

If you didn't want the article knit-picked, why post it?

nit pick???? all i seen was something to the fact

Are you saying Norman Geisler has the answer to why evil exists?

i never said that our did the author adding to or showing a false statement is one thing... but saying something that was never there to start with.. was there something that was wrote that is contrary to scripture ?... the best part i liked was
First, if God is all-powerful then He can do it, and if He is all-loving, then He wants to do it. And whatever He can and wants to do, He will do (Psalm 135:6). His very nature as an omnipotent and omni-benevolent being demands that evil will be vanquished.

Second, God already has done something about evil. He sent His only Son into the world to die for the world and to defeat evil. Evil was defeated officially at Christ’s first coming through His death and resurrection (Colossians 2:14, Hebrews 2:14, Ephesians 4:7-12). His victory over sin and the grave ensured Satan’s eventual defeat. The same Bible that accurately predicted Christ’s first coming through nearly 100 fulfilled prophecies promises that Christ will come again and will completely defeat evil.
Meanwhile, What Do We Do? this part In “The Problem of Pain,” C.S. Lewis explains a second point about suffering. “God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our conscience, but shouts in our pains: it is His megaphone to rouse a deaf world.” The painful truth is that God is more interested in our holiness than in our happiness. He is more interested in our character than in our comfort. this is wrote from his perspective of a personal experience

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

I agree with everything you've said.
But it doesn't answer the question of evil.
Of course evil has consequences.
It doesn't answer what got evil started...
For instance, could there be a good God and an evil God?
Maybe God isn't all good?
Maybe he has no power over Satan or evil?
These are the questions that result from the problem of evil.

For a different outlook on evil, I think looking at King David when he fell is an element to consider. What happened after. The evil came from lustful temptation, that David acted on.

Also looking at Job and what happened to him. Just as Jesus said that Satan wanted to test each of the apstoles and sift them till they broke some of the evil us the result of Satan.

Also consider one of the blind men that Jesus healed. His disciples asked Jesus who's sin made that man blind. And Jesus answered he was blind to show the glory and power of God, then Jesus healed him.

If there are other causes of evil I don't know them. But I do know that God is greater then any of them. That God is not evil. Though He can cause great harm and should be feared and revered for His authority. And that there is no second god, an evil one. Trust God, and turn to Him. This we must do, for Him to heal the world. If we could do this on our own, that would be great. But Jesus came because we can't. Jesus even said that no one comes to Him unless God draws them to Jesus.

Does that help?

 

[for_his_glory]

In Revelations there's a section where Satan is put in the dungeon of hell, for 1000 years. Then after that he is released to try and sway the people again. After that he is put in hell again forever. I'm not saying that now satan's influence isn't strong, but my hope is that eventually evil will be rid of because no one will ever make the same crime that Satan made. Satan will be gone, banished, and hopefully even when he comes back his influence will be small and easily stamped out and turned away from. Imagine if Eve did that back in Genesis. Now imagine if after that. After Satan is gone no one filled with pride or ambition, or greed says to themself to be as God is. Or to over throw Him. No one causes the rebellion that is the state the world is in now.

That is my hope. That we exist in suffering now so that it will never never happen again.

Rev 20: 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

In these verses alone our adversary is called by a few different names. A dragon, Rev 12:7, that old serpent, which we find his influence in Genesis 3:1, Devil and Satan. At this time Jesus has returned, Rev 19, and the beast and false prophet that Satan influenced by the evil found in them are then cast into the lake of fire. At that time we are gathered to Jesus as Satan is let loose to go out to deceive the nations calling them to battle against the camp of the saints and his army is consumed by fire come down from God in heaven then the devil that deceived the world is then cast into the lake of fire and tormented forever and ever as judgement will have come and the New Jerusalem ushered down as sin will never exist again.

Evil has been in the world since Satan's fall from the throne room of God even though he has access to it when God allows. Man has been enticed by the evil that is found in Satan beginning in the Garden of Eden when the serpent enticed Eve to eat of the fruit of the tree that God forbade Adam not to eat of. In Ezekiel 28 the king of Tyrus is spoken of, but when you go down to vs.12 an expression of sorrow from God is placed on the king as he is being referenced to that of Satan as Satan who in the beginning in heaven was created full of Gods wisdom and perfect in beauty. vs. 13 says thou hast been in Eden the garden of God (the king was never there) then in vs.14 thou art the anointed cherub (when was the king ever a cherub). From verse 14-17 reference is being made to Satan's fall because of his pride. I'm just nut shelling this as it is a long study and to long for me to put it all in here.

 

[for_his_glory]

Israel was promised that if they opey God's laws He would bless them. And if they turned away there would be consquences. The evil you speak of is still part of the evil in the world because we have not followed God. I believe it that by God's hand evil can be swept from our mists. But we need to follow God as a people, not just as Indivuals. We need to be mature in Christ as nations not as indivuals in order to remove those evils. At least that's my opinion. I also believe that evil can happen to good people (good in a comparative sence) because God lets us grow sometimes through hardship, and because there is an active war between the forces of good and evil around us.

Don't know about theologians. There is ongoing history and great minds throughout the ages trying to tackle the issues we have. Some of the issues are more complex because we see the events throughout history as a challenge or a comfirmation of theological thought. And for that I can speak very little about it. But from my limited understanding, from just my own life and the study of the bible, my figuring is that if we turn to God as a people He will heal us. And conversely if we don't, we will be in a state of destruction from the evils that ravage the world as a whole.

Again, just my limited understanding. And most likely way off the mark.

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. 7 As they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame.

2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

 

[GodsGrace]

nit pick???? all i seen was something to the fact i never said that our did the author adding to or showing a false statement is one thing... but saying something that was never there to start with.. was there something that was wrote that is contrary to scripture ?... the best part i liked was
First, if God is all-powerful then He can do it, and if He is all-loving, then He wants to do it. And whatever He can and wants to do, He will do (Psalm 135:6). His very nature as an omnipotent and omni-benevolent being demands that evil will be vanquished.

Second, God already has done something about evil. He sent His only Son into the world to die for the world and to defeat evil. Evil was defeated officially at Christ’s first coming through His death and resurrection (Colossians 2:14, Hebrews 2:14, Ephesians 4:7-12). His victory over sin and the grave ensured Satan’s eventual defeat. The same Bible that accurately predicted Christ’s first coming through nearly 100 fulfilled prophecies promises that Christ will come again and will completely defeat evil.
Meanwhile, What Do We Do? this part In “The Problem of Pain,” C.S. Lewis explains a second point about suffering. “God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our conscience, but shouts in our pains: it is His megaphone to rouse a deaf world.” The painful truth is that God is more interested in our holiness than in our happiness. He is more interested in our character than in our comfort. this is wrote from his perspective of a personal experience

This is the thing Ezra.
So many like to write about evil land the problem of evil.
They write pages and pages and even books. But when you're through reading everything, you still don't get an answer. So I wonder why it's written about at all.
The only thing that could be said about it is that we don't KNOW why evil exists and we just have to learn to accept it.

I mean, just look at the point above: God is more interested in our holiness than in our happiness. If God loves us, shouldn't He also be interested in seeing us happy?
(I think He is, BTW). I have a cat. I like to see my cat be happy. If I had the power, he'd always be happy and he'd never be sick.

This, BTW, does not lessen my love for our God.

 

[GodsGrace]

For a different outlook on evil, I think looking at King David when he fell is an element to consider. What happened after. The evil came from lustful temptation, that David acted on.

Also looking at Job and what happened to him. Just as Jesus said that Satan wanted to test each of the apstoles and sift them till they broke some of the evil us the result of Satan.

Also consider one of the blind men that Jesus healed. His disciples asked Jesus who's sin made that man blind. And Jesus answered he was blind to show the glory and power of God, then Jesus healed him.

If there are other causes of evil I don't know them. But I do know that God is greater then any of them. That God is not evil. Though He can cause great harm and should be feared and revered for His authority. And that there is no second god, an evil one. Trust God, and turn to Him. This we must do, for Him to heal the world. If we could do this on our own, that would be great. But Jesus came because we can't. Jesus even said that no one comes to Him unless God draws them to Jesus.

Does that help?

NNS, I don't really need help. I've stopped worrying about this.
When I first got saved, I did think I had the problem all figured out.
God causes all the good, and satan causes all the evil.
About 10 years in, I came to realize that there's a problem with this.
Why? Because God still ALLOWS evil to exist. So I had to start all over again.
I wish I knew then there was no answer. It took some time, but I finally understood.
I like to put it out there though, because some have never considered this.

 

[ezra]

This is the thing Ezra.
So many like to write about evil land the problem of evil.
They write pages and pages and even books. But when you're through reading everything, you still don't get an answer. So I wonder why it's written about at all.
The only thing that could be said about it is that we don't KNOW why evil exists and we just have to learn to accept it.

I mean, just look at the point above: God is more interested in our holiness than in our happiness. If God loves us, shouldn't He also be interested in seeing us happy?
(I think He is, BTW). I have a cat. I like to see my cat be happy. If I had the power, he'd always be happy and he'd never be sick.

This, BTW, does not lessen my love for our God.

this was his personal perspective after experiencing tragedy of the loss of his daughter .. just a observation in general ..it seem articles like this generate the most remarks while others go untouched ...yes we know why evil exist the Devil is the author the carnage . what we dont understand is why God does not put a stop to it. evil has existed since cain and able .

If God loves us, shouldn't He also be interested in seeing us happy?

lol ask God not me ..i watched this post go from what it thought was pretty good. to being a chuck of meat among Dogs who have not ate in weeks