If God Exists, Why Is There Evil? By Norman Geisler

[Razeontherock]

Study it?
Have I just come to this conclusion?
If you check, you'll find that there is no theologian who can answer the question of evil. It has taken many turns to arrive at this conclusion..

What? Theodicy is easy. Then again Martin Luther specified the terms upon which he would surrender his scholars cap -

which he thus owes to me.

The TlDr; version is still, God is good! And greatly to be praised. He's got this :wink

 

[Razeontherock]

I think that life is just a test and evil is the temptation that fails folks, it's also a useful reference point (evil) because without it you wouldn't have good.

They are opposites, but not equal. Satan is remanded to only being what God is not. Both do exist, and God could not be honest or just while pretending otherwise.

In the beginning God divided the light from the darkness. Darkness was still there.

Ultimately we too will be completely divided from all darkness, and each of us knows this is what we are created for, and we groan for it! Eventually we will all see that our current travail is but a vapor, even though it sure doesn't seem that way now.

Why couldn't God just start us there? It couldn't be an everlasting kingdom. Not with free will anyway, which is how He decided to create us. (And I am very glad for that!) Adam and Eve were good, but not yet perfected. How was our Elder Brother perfected? Through sufferings. It was said of Him He had not learned letters, book learning will not suffice for us either.

THE way of Salvation! God is perfect in all His ways. There was no other way, Jesus even asked for one and was denied.

 

[Garion]

They write about it for at least two reasons: 1) It is a problem that has perplexed and affected every person that has ever lived, and 2) atheists and others falsely believe it to prove the non-existence of the Christian God.

And for those two reasons it needs to be written about, although there has not likely been anything new written about it for a long time. It's just that different viewpoints or the same viewpoints stated differently can help one in understanding and dealing with the difficulties that arise.


While we cannot say why evil exists or how it came to exist, we can say more than that. We can say that God provided the means, through Christ's death and resurrection, to defeat evil and that at some point it will not exist.


I don't think that that is the case. It could be argued that God is most interested in our happiness but that in order for our ultimate happiness, we need to be purged of sin through the process of sanctification. Without holiness, no one will see the Lord (Heb. 12:14), and that is where our greatest happiness will be found.

I don't think that atheists are atheists because they don't believe in the Christian faith, I think that they are atheists because they don't believe in any faith.

It's not like they are out to get Christians.

 

[Free]

I don't think that atheists are atheists because they don't believe in the Christian faith, I think that they are atheists because they don't believe in any faith.

That wasn't an argument I was making. Atheists are atheists because they deny the existence of any and all divine beings, including the Christian God (a-theism=no god). I'm not convinced that the so-called problem of evil can be applied to any other concept of God outside of the Christian God, although one might be able to argue to a Judeo-Christian understanding of God.

It's not like they are out to get Christians.

Most of them perhaps but not all. Some are clearly militant in their attempts to get rid of religion in general and Christianity in particular, hence the term "militant atheism".

 

[GodsGrace]

What? Theodicy is easy. Then again Martin Luther specified the terms upon which he would surrender his scholars cap -

which he thus owes to me.

The TlDr; version is still, God is good! And greatly to be praised. He's got this :wink

In post 82 you say that when God divided the light and the darkness, the darkness was still there. You say theodicy is easy. It's great that you find it easy...I don't know anyone that does that teaches theology.
God is good and greatly to be praised.
No doubt about that.
But it just adds to the mystery of why He doesn't get rid of evil.

 

[GodsGrace]

I don't think that atheists are atheists because they don't believe in the Christian faith, I think that they are atheists because they don't believe in any faith.

It's not like they are out to get Christians.

Yes Garion, they ARE out to get Christians.
Have you noticed that God has been removed from discussion is school.
Have you noticed that very few schools offer the explanation of a divine being for the cause of everything around us? Public schools teach that everything came from the big bang.
God has been removed from everything around us. It was even being discussed that the words "In God We Trust" should be removed from money.
The Nativity scene is an insult to many and is no longer on public property.
Ditto for the 10 Commandments which used to be posted on some walls in public bldgs.

Not only do atheists want to remove Christian signs from public places, they'd like to remove God and Christians from this world.

Atheism is the new religion.

 

[Razeontherock]

In post 82 you say that when God divided the light and the darkness, the darkness was still there. You say theodicy is easy. It's great that you find it easy...I don't know anyone that does that teaches theology.
God is good and greatly to be praised.
No doubt about that.
But it just adds to the mystery of why He doesn't get rid of evil.

This is a really important point even if only for the reason of unbelievers wrongly concluding the Gospel failed since Jesus died to get people to stop sinning. (So many errors in that thinking)

Some of the great hymns of the Faith really express wonderful theology! I wonder if you can place this one?

"God is working His purpose out and the time is drawing near
Nearer and nearer draws the time the time that shall surely be
When the earth shall be filled with the glory of God as the waters cover the sea"

That's verse 1, all 4 verses are well worth revisiting.

We also have vast amounts of Scripture that addresses our current waiting period, but right now I am led to share 2 Cor 5:4 that concludes it's thought with the oh-so-strange expression that "mortality might be swallowed up of life."

I know you appreciate more modern music too. Are you familiar with Petra? They released an album called Captured In Time And Space.

Another reason for understanding the point you raise is I have encountered believers who have been so beset upon by evil that they are actually offended at the notion of solutions actually coming about by prayer. They can't see how it's possible, when not only themselves but others have been left to suffer so. That's dangerous thinking!

We are in a battle. The front lines are usually our own mind.

 

[Razeontherock]

Yes Garion, they ARE out to get Christians.
Have you noticed that God has been removed from discussion is school.
Have you noticed that very few schools offer the explanation of a divine being for the cause of everything around us? Public schools teach that everything came from the big bang.
God has been removed from everything around us. It was even being discussed that the words "In God We Trust" should be removed from money.
The Nativity scene is an insult to many and is no longer on public property.
Ditto for the 10 Commandments which used to be posted on some walls in public bldgs.

Not only do atheists want to remove Christian signs from public places, they'd like to remove God and Christians from this world.

Atheism is the new religion.

Yup the Freedom From Religion Foundation has it's HQ not far from here. Evil incarnate.

 

[GodsGrace]

This is a really important point even if only for the reason of unbelievers wrongly concluding the Gospel failed since Jesus died to get people to stop sinning. (So many errors in that thinking)

Some of the great hymns of the Faith really express wonderful theology! I wonder if you can place this one?

"God is working His purpose out and the time is drawing near
Nearer and nearer draws the time the time that shall surely be
When the earth shall be filled with the glory of God as the waters cover the sea"

That's verse 1, all 4 verses are well worth revisiting.

We also have vast amounts of Scripture that addresses our current waiting period, but right now I am led to share 2 Cor 5:4 that concludes it's thought with the oh-so-strange expression that "mortality might be swallowed up of life."

I know you appreciate more modern music too. Are you familiar with Petra? They released an album called Captured In Time And Space.

Another reason for understanding the point you raise is I have encountered believers who have been so beset upon by evil that they are actually offended at the notion of solutions actually coming about by prayer. They can't see how it's possible, when not only themselves but others have been left to suffer so. That's dangerous thinking!

We are in a battle. The front lines are usually our own mind.

I don't understand how it works, but I believe in prayer.
Does it change God's mind? But He knew everything from the beginning, so that would include Him changing His mind? It's too much for me. But prayer is answered many times and miracles do happen.
We are in a battle. That's for sure. And we battle not with flesh and blood but with principalities that really exist.
I just don't understand why they exist.
No one does. That's all I'm saying. I accept what is and look forward to knowing the Why one day.

 

[Garion]

I respectfully disagree.

 

[Free]

I respectfully disagree.

With who? Which what? What alternative do you propose?