If God Loved everyone !

[mondar]

That's a pretty good thought from her, RND.

I thought you'd like it. Try not to pay any attention to those that think God is an unmerciful taskmaster.

Why is it that people confuse trash talking with theology? Then after trash talking they think themselves virtuous?

 

[Orion]

Well, I hate to bring up a point I made a while back, but "theology" is seen differently by different denominations. Who's right? No one will know.. . . .at least it is doubtful anyone will.

 

[mondar]

Well, I hate to bring up a point I made a while back, but "theology" is seen differently by different denominations. Who's right? No one will know.. . . .at least it is doubtful anyone will.

Not the point. I was asking you not to join RND in trash talking.

 

[RND]

Why is it that people confuse trash talking with theology?

I know I don't.

Then after trash talking they think themselves virtuous?

Pride, hubris I suppose.

 

[Orion]

I apologize if it seemed that I was "trash talking". However, I personally feel that such doctrine, as those in "hyper-calvanistic" beliefs, to be pretty repulsive. In turn, I'm sure you find the way that I believe to be as repulsive. You feel me to be "the enemy", though you haven't said so specifically, . . . that is the conclusion, since I've been made to be one who is hated by your god. Seems pretty much like "trash talk" when such ideology is openly and unapologetically stated.

 

[RND]

Well, I hate to bring up a point I made a while back, but "theology" is seen differently by different denominations. Who's right? No one will know.. . . .at least it is doubtful anyone will.

Not the point. I was asking you not to join RND in trash talking.

It's your "judgment" that I was trash talking. Trust me, if I needed to resort to trash talking I would address you directly.

I thought I was offering Orion sound advice frankly. Is was again, "Try not to pay any attention to those that think God is an unmerciful taskmaster."

Are you saying you are one that thinks God is an unmerciful taskmaster?

I find it fascinating that a comment I made to Orion was construed by you to be trash talking against you. Must have struck a nerve.

 

[RND]

I apologize if it seemed that I was "trash talking". However, I personally feel that such doctrine, as those in "hyper-calvanistic" beliefs, to be pretty repulsive. In turn, I'm sure you find the way that I believe to be as repulsive. You feel me to be "the enemy", though you haven't said so specifically, . . . that is the conclusion, since I've been made to be one who is hated by your god. Seems pretty much like "trash talk" when such ideology is openly and unapologetically stated.

Very well stated. It is a repugnant view of God that He made some to be lost.

 

[glorydaz]

I apologize if it seemed that I was "trash talking". However, I personally feel that such doctrine, as those in "hyper-calvanistic" beliefs, to be pretty repulsive. In turn, I'm sure you find the way that I believe to be as repulsive. You feel me to be "the enemy", though you haven't said so specifically, . . . that is the conclusion, since I've been made to be one who is hated by your god. Seems pretty much like "trash talk" when such ideology is openly and unapologetically stated.

Very well stated. It is a repugnant view of God that He made some to be lost.

It's a great tool of satan, though, isn't it?

God gives all men a chance to repent and go on to eternal life.
Those who don't... will die as they would were there no God at all.

That's why it's called a gift. The opportunity to live forever instead of just a brief time on this earth.
I, too, believe hell is nothing more than an eternal cutting off from God.
It will be death instead of life. Which is what most, who don't believe in God, expect anyway.

 

[savedbygrace57]

glory says:

God gives all men a chance to repent and go on to eternal life.

No He does not, He gives His chosen People repentance, not a chance..acts 5:

31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

 

[Hawkins]

glory says:
31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Rather it only says that Jesus has achieved His mission on earth to bring those willing to repent to God. That's why it can be said He give repentance to Israel, or He give repentance to mankind. No individual is addressed.

 

[savedbygrace57]

hawkins says:

Rather it only says that Jesus has achieved His mission on earth to bring those willing to repent to God.

It does not say that, you must cant read well sir..

 

[Hawkins]

hawkins says:

Rather it only says that Jesus has achieved His mission on earth to bring those willing to repent to God.

It does not say that, you must cant read well sir..

The same can be said to your view. Bible reading is correct only when consistency is made through the whole Bible.

 

[savedbygrace57]

hawk says:

The same can be said to your view.

My View is scriptural, yours is not..

 

[Orion]

savedbygrace, if you won't answer my other questions, how about this one: "Are you good with the idea that god makes people that have no other choice but to end up in a tormenting hell, just so a FEW elect will see how lucky they were? Do you see that as ethical? Why or why not?

 

[mondar]

Is that what you got out of what I said? Ethics describes what happens to those who go against it. But ethics would never include a "torture for all eternity regardless of the severity of the "sin" clause".

Do you picture the punishment as being for just sins in this life? Of course even in eternity, the rebellion and sin will never stop.

Because you kept a few Christian ethics for a few decades you claim to understand Christianity. Orion, I could not disagree more on how you present Christianity. If your present speech relates to your past understanding of deity, no wonder you because an Atheist.

My current way of thinking is current, . . . NOT how I thought when I was a christian. You have no place to judge how I was then. I believed pretty much as you do, if you must know. However, when I started considering it [not too long ago] that's when I could no longer see it as the acts of a GOOD god, but the beliefs of bronze age primative men trying to understand what they did not. There are some good things found in the bible. There are also some very unethical beliefs that come from it. You provided some of them here. . . . . . . . .that "babies are guilty by birth". . . ."justifying any type of slavery as good" . . . .

I am not seeing it. I dont see how you believed as I do. Your right, I did not know you then, and in fact know nearly nothing about you now. The same would be true of you. You know little about me and my theology even now.

Orion, I cannot help but doubt that when you gave up your Christianity, that your earlier Christianity was flawed anyway. I guess it is typical of Calvinists to think such thoughts. Yet I still cannot help but think these so called reversions show formerly flawed theology. A good example is the so called reversion of Frank Beckwith. I think some have made good cases for the fact that he was never completely a protestant, and even now is not completely a Catholic. I have heard others describe him as "paddling around in the middle of the Tiber." I am guessing you were similar, but not with reference to Protestant/Roman Catholic theology, but with reference to Protestant/humanistic secularism theology. When I cruise around the internet, I have often seen what I think is protestants leaning towards humanism. I watch the inerrancy debate. Those protestants denying innerrancy seem humanistic leaning to me and appear to be paddling around in the middle of the "protestant/Humanist" river so to speak. I know that when I hear of a reversion of any kind, my first impulse is to question its validity. Some of that might be my theology (perseverance of the saints). But I have yet to see a true and real reversion.

I think we agree on one thing. We both intend to go where we as individual think the evidence leads.

It seems we will have to do that "agree to disagree" thing. Good talking with you.

Orion, I am sure neither of us will convince the other. I think we have had a good conversation. I hope that you have not seen me as disrespectful in any way. I observe so much trash talking in these threads that it is surprising any of us can call ourselves "Christian." I know I am not perfect either.

 

[Orion]

Do you picture the punishment as being for just sins in this life? Of course even in eternity, the rebellion and sin will never stop.

Can one rebel against a god who never cared about them anyway? Would it even matter if they didn't? See next part below...

I am not seeing it. I dont see how you believed as I do. . . .Orion, I cannot help but doubt that when you gave up your Christianity, that your earlier Christianity was flawed anyway. I guess it is typical of Calvinists to think such thoughts. Yet I still cannot help but think these so called reversions show formerly flawed theology....
I think we agree on one thing. We both intend to go where we as individual think the evidence leads.

I wasn't as you believe yourself to be, . . . one who has a defined "personal relationship with Jesus". I certainly believed everything the bible stated and was excited about it, . . . but though I tried for literally years, . . . I never had any sort of connection that could have been called anything close to "personal". And I DID try! So, I recently came to the conclusion that I was NOT one who god loved or desired to be with. Silence makes a huge point.

 

[shad]

savedbygrace, if you won't answer my other questions, how about this one: "Are you good with the idea that god makes people that have no other choice but to end up in a tormenting hell, just so a FEW elect will see how lucky they were? Do you see that as ethical? Why or why not?

God is merciful and Just, He will make sure everyone gets absolutely equal chance either in this life or after they are dead physically.

 

[Orion]

savedbygrace, if you won't answer my other questions, how about this one: "Are you good with the idea that god makes people that have no other choice but to end up in a tormenting hell, just so a FEW elect will see how lucky they were? Do you see that as ethical? Why or why not?

God is merciful and Just, He will make sure everyone gets absolutely equal chance either in this life or after they are dead physically.

Not sure sure that's true, shad. Some people require MUCH more evidence than "word of mouth" before accepting something that requires a HIGHLY altered change of lifestyle. Some people are more easily swayed. What may be acceptable for one is hardly so to another.

However, I'm wanting savedbygrace to answer my question here. Thanks.

 

[Hugo]

The usual theological backflips, I see. Of course, I've seen much more sophisticated ones, but it's all trumpery.

And it's only a matter of time before the calvinistic cop-out arrives: "See, you never really were saved!"

 

[savedbygrace57]

savedbygrace, if you won't answer my other questions, how about this one: "Are you good with the idea that god makes people that have no other choice but to end up in a tormenting hell, just so a FEW elect will see how lucky they were? Do you see that as ethical? Why or why not?

God is merciful and Just, He will make sure everyone gets absolutely equal chance either in this life or after they are dead physically.

Thats your philosophy, not scriptural..