Again, I agree. God is not willing that any (of those who he chose to believe on him) will perish, but will wait for all to come to faith.francisdesales said:mondar said:Let me also offer some exegetical suggestions on how to read this verse....
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
This is the NIV, other translations use different terms and words. Nevertheless, Peter says God is "patient with you." The term "you" must be understood as the same group he is writing to in the introduction of the his epistle....
This says nothing about the universal offering of concern for all of men.
It speaks of the special patience that God has for those who accept Him, but we must remember that we ALL, at one point in our life, rejected God - and He remained patient. God is patient for the sake of others coming to Him.
Peter is not addressing God's patience as being limited only to a select group. He is merely stating that God has patience with Christians without discussing God's patience with others...[/quote]
Since God loved us WHILE we were in sin, it follows that God continues to love those who are STILL in sin...[/quote]
Francis, first let me say that you wrote a lot, I will try to go back and read what you wrote, but I need some time to go back and read the previous posts.
Concerning what you say above. I think think you are disassociating the first part of the text with the later part.
I am looking at the "you" as the same group as the later group referred to by the word "any." You seem to think they are two different groups. I dont see why you think that this is grammatically possible. How do you see the grammar?
Let me try this in English clause by clause......
"He is patient with you" ------we agree here that it speaks of the believing (elect) audience that Peter is writing to. This group does not include unbelievers. He is patient with believers.
"not wanting anyone to perish" ----- The word "anyone" here takes its antecedent from the word "you" in the previous clause. God does not want "anyone" of the "you" to perish.
"but everyone to come to repentance." ------ The word "everyone" also has the preceding clauses as its antecedent. It too goes back to the word "you." In other words, God wanted "everyone of you who are the readers" to come to repentance.
I am aware that this text is commonly quoted as proving that God wants every single person that every lived to come to repentance. I think the people who assume that this text teaches that are do not realize that the later words "anyone" and "everyone" has as its antecedent the word "you." The text then is merely saying that God will be patient with all the group called "you" (elect) and will wait for them to come to repentance.
Now can you offer reasons why you see the words "anyone to perish" and "everyone to come to repentance" as a different group of people then the people in the clause that precedes it "is patient with you." You do seem to be understanding the text as referring to "you" as believers, and then the other clauses as including unbelievers. Why?