If God Loved everyone !

[francisdesales]

Sorry, Christ died for everyone.

In your imagination..

Where's the Scripture that says Christ died only for the elect? Nowhere. Where have you proven your point of view? Nowhere.

Jesus died for the sin of the world. Not the sin of the elect.

Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. John 1:29

:amen

 

[savedbygrace57]

fran says:

Where's the Scripture that says Christ died only for the elect?

Where is the scripture that says christ did not die only for the elect ?

 

[francisdesales]

Where is the scripture that says christ did not die only for the elect ?

Oh boy...

I gave you at least 3 different Scriptures that talks about Christ dying for the sake of ALL men. Universal redemption - made available to any who would turn to the Lord. I have not seen any Scriptures that say Christ died only for the elect...

If you choose to add words to Scripture or change it meaning (all means to only a few), YOU need to be able to support it!

You haven't. Christ died for the sin of the WORLD. Christ's act is just as salvific as Adam's act condemned. Adam's sin didn't effect only the elect, it effected all men. Christ's death didn't effect only the elect, but all men.

Be happy about the great and glorious Mercy of God, which exceeds anything WE might think is necessary or appropriate.

 

[Orion]

^ True, . . . . and there isn't anything given that makes any case that the "all men", in verse 18, is strictly speaking about "the elect". It seems to be only opinion to agree with a specific doctrine.

 

[savedbygrace57]

fran says:

I gave you at least 3 different Scriptures that talks about Christ dying for the sake of ALL men.

But which one of them said that Jesus christ did not only die for all the elect ?

 

[savedbygrace57]

^ True, . . . . and there isn't anything given that makes any case that the "all men", in verse 18, is strictly speaking about "the elect". It seems to be only opinion to agree with a specific doctrine.

Thats the only people christ died for, is the elect, so when you see all, in reference to christ death,it means all the elect, or sheep..or the church..

 

[francisdesales]

^ True, . . . . and there isn't anything given that makes any case that the "all men", in verse 18, is strictly speaking about "the elect". It seems to be only opinion to agree with a specific doctrine.

I agree with you. This is obviously a case of changing the Scriptures to support a theological opinion, rather than reading the Word of God as is...

 

[savedbygrace57]

fran:

Christ died for the sin of the WORLD.

The world of the elect or the many..matt 20:

Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

heb 9 28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

 

[francisdesales]

But which one of them said that Jesus christ did not only die for all the elect ?

When it says "ALL", it rules out "SOME".
When it says "EVERYONE", it rules out "only the elect".
When it says "WORLD", it rules out "only some people on the earth..."

Like I said, a fine case of the inability to admit error by digging an even deeper hole...

 

[francisdesales]

The world of the elect or the many..matt 20:

"Many" means "all", in context.

 

[savedbygrace57]

The world of the elect or the many..matt 20:

"Many" means "all", in context.

Right all the elect..

 

[savedbygrace57]

But which one of them said that Jesus christ did not only die for all the elect ?

When it says "ALL", it rules out "SOME".
When it says "EVERYONE", it rules out "only the elect".
When it says "WORLD", it rules out "only some people on the earth..."

Like I said, a fine case of the inability to admit error by digging an even deeper hole...

You have yet to produce the verse that says:

But which one of them said that Jesus christ did not only die for all the elect ?

 

[glorydaz]

But which one of them said that Jesus christ did not only die for all the elect ?

When it says "ALL", it rules out "SOME".
When it says "EVERYONE", it rules out "only the elect".
When it says "WORLD", it rules out "only some people on the earth..."

Like I said, a fine case of the inability to admit error by digging an even deeper hole...

:amen

 

[Orion]

^ True, . . . . and there isn't anything given that makes any case that the "all men", in verse 18, is strictly speaking about "the elect". It seems to be only opinion to agree with a specific doctrine.

Thats the only people christ died for, is the elect, so when you see all, in reference to christ death,it means all the elect, or sheep..or the church..

Source? Evidence?

 

[savedbygrace57]

^ True, . . . . and there isn't anything given that makes any case that the "all men", in verse 18, is strictly speaking about "the elect". It seems to be only opinion to agree with a specific doctrine.

Thats the only people christ died for, is the elect, so when you see all, in reference to christ death,it means all the elect, or sheep..or the church..

Source? Evidence?

I already gave evidence scripturally, but i cannot give you eyes to see the evidence..

 

[francisdesales]

I already gave evidence scripturally, but i cannot give you eyes to see the evidence..

You gave me a verse that said nothing about whom God saves. It only says that Paul is working for the elect...

 

[francisdesales]

But which one of them said that Jesus christ did not only die for all the elect ?

The fun part is that YOU have the burden of proof, not me, to show that "God desires all men to be saved" = only the elect... :yes

I am reading the words... You want to change the words. YOU must provide the warrant for why:

God desires all men = God desires only some men...
Christ takes away the sin of the world = Christ takes away only some of the sin of the world.
Christ's redemption effects AS Adam's sin condemns = Christ's work is less powerful than Adam's sin...

The burden is upon you, not me, to figure out why the Scriptures are not worded in the way YOU desire... Nor do I use your logic and say "Jesus died for the devils" because it doesn't say He didn't...

We base theology upon what the Scriptures imply or explicitly say. They do not imply that He only died for the elect.

 

[Orion]

I already gave evidence scripturally, but i cannot give you eyes to see the evidence..

You gave nothing of the sort. You did not prove that "all men" is ONLY "the elect".

 

[savedbygrace57]

orion:

You gave nothing of the sort.

I have too..read the thread from the beginning..

 

[savedbygrace57]

fran says:

You gave me a verse that said nothing about whom God saves

Well, He saves His people..Matt 1:

21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Thats it..now are all people God's people ?

And no, this is not referring to ethnic jews, for all ethnic jews were not God's people, we know this by Jesus words here:

Jn 8:

42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

43Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

45And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

46Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

47He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.