If God Loved everyone !

[glorydaz]

glory says:

I believe every verse.
What I've tried to point out is that God hates the sin and not the sinner.

and you reject scripture that i have pointed out that says god doesnt love all sinners ps 5:

5The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

I don't reject the verse...I reject your understanding of what the verse is saying.
I'll say again....

These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Does God hate the proud look or the sin of pride?
Does God hate the lying tongue or the sin of lying?
Does God hate the hands that shed innocent blood or the sin of murder?
Does God hate the heart that deviseth evil or the evil the heart devises?
Does God hate the feet that run to mischief, or does He hate the mischief itself?

Does God hate the person who commits disobedience or does He hate the act of disobedience?

Do you hate your child or do you hate what your child does when he misbehaves?
Are you better than God...able to love the child in spite of his disobedience?
Are you capable of loving your child in spite of his sin...is your ability to love greater than God's?

 

[glorydaz]

whatch the attacks!
do i knew your heart, and do you know mine. it one thing to question doctrine and another to claim another is NOT a beliver via some minor doctrinal disagreements or even large ones,unless they are purely heritical, this topic is no that type.
keep in mind that the the verse regarging esau could mean that he didnt hate but didn't choose him ,is it consisent with his nature.

when we rebel we lose blessings, and this may be what happen to easu, he choose the world over god, did god love him less, now but he couldnt use him. think of this verse.

many are called , but few are chosen.

God Loved jacob and hated easu before they did any good or evil..rom 9:

11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

God knew Esau's heart before Esau was ever born.

 

[jasoncran]

but he still loved him, obviously you appear to a calvinist.
why create some simply to kill them. there's that verse about judas isacariot. why did the lord choose him to be one of the disciples, did jesus desire that he go to hell, no, but he did know that he would reject him and gave him a chance to repent.

the choice of the sinner to repent is never overridden. all our actions evil or good will give god glory.
the repentance gives him glory as he can use our testimony, and the evil when unrepented of is glory to lord because of the holiness of the lord, he regretfully must judge the sinner then and does it to show that he is lord and just and true.

 

[Hawkins]

If God loved everyone, whats the sense of Jesus making a statement like this ?

Jn 14:

21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Why say this if God loves everyone any way ?

He loves His sheep, not the wolves. For if He loves the wolves, He has to feed them with the sheep.

Matthew 13:
The Parable of the Weeds Explained
36Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, "Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field."
37He answered, "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

40"As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

 

[glorydaz]

but he still loved him, obviously you appear to a calvinist.
why create some simply to kill them. there's that verse about judas isacariot. why did the lord choose him to be one of the disciples, did jesus desire that he go to hell, no, but he did know that he would reject him and gave him a chance to repent.

the choice of the sinner to repent is never overridden. all our actions evil or good will give god glory.
the repentance gives him glory as he can use our testimony, and the evil when unrepented of is glory to lord because of the holiness of the lord, he regretfully must judge the sinner then and does it to show that he is lord and just and true.

Because I speak of the foreknowledge of God, you think I'm a Calvinist? Of course everyone has a chance to repent. God even knows whether we will or we won't. It's not above his pay grade.

God knew Jesus was crucified from the foundation of the world, does that mean He was created to die?
Oops...in that case it does, doesn't it?

The Lord chose Judas knowing he would betray Him. Does that mean Jesus set him up to fail?
It's hardly a strictly Calvinistic doctrine to believe in predestination and the foreknowledge of God.
There's a lot of scripture you'll have to explain away to blame my comment on Calvin. ;)

Romans 8:29 -For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Ephesians 1:5 - Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Ephesians 1:11 - In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

 

[jasoncran]

i say that because you stated twice that esau was hated and already doomed, at least that what you implied.

 

[MimilovesBibi]

There is no greater love than this...

Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

And who did Christ die for?

For ALL.

[quote="1 Timothy 2:6":11snqcyz] Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

For every man.

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

For the sins of the whole world (NOT FOR OURS ONLY)

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

For the ungodly.

For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Even for false teachers.

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

For many (Matthew 20:28).
For Israel (John 11:50-51).
For the Church (Eph. 5:25).
For "me" (Gal. 2:20).

God's love is sufficient but not always efficient since some turn away to their own destruction.
There is no limit to the love of God...just as there is no limit to His justice.[/quote:11snqcyz]


AMEN

 

[glorydaz]

He loves His sheep, not the wolves. For if He loves the wolves, He has to feed them with the sheep.

Matthew 13:
The Parable of the Weeds Explained
36Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, "Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field."
37He answered, "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

40"As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

We were the wolves before we repented. God came to earth because He loved mankind and desired they all come to repentance. Just because not all come, doesn't mean God doesn't love them. His mercy and love are boundless, but His justice and wrath are just as boundless.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

 

[Hawkins]

We were the wolves before we repented. God came to earth because He loved mankind and desired they all come to repentance. Just because not all come, doesn't mean God doesn't love them. His mercy and love are boundless, but His justice and wrath are just as boundless.

Rather, the sheep's names are already in the Book of Life, although we as humans can hardly understand fully what pre-destination is.

 

[MimilovesBibi]

He loves His sheep, not the wolves. For if He loves the wolves, He has to feed them with the sheep.

Matthew 13:
The Parable of the Weeds Explained
36Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, "Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field."
37He answered, "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

40"As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

We were the wolves before we repented. God came to earth because He loved mankind and desired they all come to repentance. Just because not all come, doesn't mean God doesn't love them. His mercy and love are boundless, but His justice and wrath are just as boundless.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

AMEN!

Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.


Rom 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.


Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.


God hates sin, not sinners.

He commands us to LOVE our enemies...because, He loves HIS.

 

[glorydaz]

i say that because you stated twice that esau was hated and already doomed, at least that what you implied.

Twice? Maybe I'm getting old.
I said God knew Esau's heart before he was even born.

I don't recall saying Esau was hated or doomed.
Please show me where I said that.

I would say God saw Esau's heart and hated his sin.
I keep saying God hates the sin, but loves the sinner.
The same way we're to hate the sin but love the sinner.

 

[Hawkins]

God hates sin, not sinners.

He commands us to LOVE our enemies...because, He loves HIS.

That's moot. Sinners include both sheep and goats, only God can distinguish. Because we as humans can hardly judge correctly, we need to love everyone.

Matthew 13:29
'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them.

 

[glorydaz]

We were the wolves before we repented. God came to earth because He loved mankind and desired they all come to repentance. Just because not all come, doesn't mean God doesn't love them. His mercy and love are boundless, but His justice and wrath are just as boundless.

Rather, the sheep's names are already in the Book of Life, although we as humans can hardly understand fully what pre-destination is.

Picture this....we see a door with a sign that says Enter.
We do. Then we turn around and look at the door and there is a sign that says, "Chosen from the foundations of the world."

An old friend shared that with me many years ago, and I liked it. I pass it on every chance I get. God is too big for us to fully understand...that's where faith comes in. :yes

 

[MimilovesBibi]

God hates sin, not sinners.

He commands us to LOVE our enemies...because, He loves HIS.

That's moot. Sinners include both sheep and goats, only God can distinguish. Because we as humans can hardly judge correctly, we need to love everyone.

Matthew 13:29
'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them.

I agree we need to love everyone. What is moot?

 

[glorydaz]

God hates sin, not sinners.

He commands us to LOVE our enemies...because, He loves HIS.

That's moot. Sinners include both sheep and goats, only God can distinguish. Because we as humans can hardly judge correctly, we need to love everyone.

Matthew 13:29
'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them.

Oh no, it's not moot.
We are to love our known enemies.
No judging or guessing required.

 

[Hawkins]

God hates sin, not sinners.

He commands us to LOVE our enemies...because, He loves HIS.

That's moot. Sinners include both sheep and goats, only God can distinguish. Because we as humans can hardly judge correctly, we need to love everyone.

Matthew 13:29
'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them.

Oh no, it's not moot.
We are to love our known enemies.
No judging or guessing required.

It is said clearly that God will judge. We have to love our known enemies because they may well be God's sons and daughers.

Do you mean that we should love those who are thrown to the Lake of Fire?

 

[glorydaz]

It is said clearly that God will judge. We have to love our known enemies because they may well be God's sons and daughers.

Do you mean that we should love those who are thrown to the Lake of Fire?

How are we to know who will be thrown into the lake of fire?

We're to love our enemies and those who despitefully use us for our own sake...not theirs.
We're to hate no one...only sin. Just as God does. That's why we know God loves His enemies...He wouldn't tell us to do what He doesn't do Himself.

43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

 

[MimilovesBibi]

It is said clearly that God will judge. We have to love our known enemies because they may well be God's sons and daughers.

Do you mean that we should love those who are thrown to the Lake of Fire?

How are we to know who will be thrown into the lake of fire?

We're to love our enemies and those who despitefully use us for our own sake...not theirs.
We're to hate no one...only sin. Just as God does. That's why we know God loves His enemies...He wouldn't tell us to do what He doesn't do Himself.

43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Exactly. I would only add that we do not do this, in and of ourselves. It is by the holy spirit, and the fruit that is produced in and through it that this is accomplished. God sheds love into our hearts..we dont' work it up ourselves...all glory returns back to Him...always.

 

[mutzrein]

The idea of a boat venturing upon a drowning man, who is thrown a life preserver, can never represent what Christ achieved for man.

Really? Why not? Did not Jesus throw mankind a "life preserver" by shedding His own precious blood?

Jesus came that man might have life.

That's the whole idea behind throwing a drowning man a life preserver right- so he could live?

[quote:12lvvnng]He doesn't give life to those are are nearly dead or dying.

We're all dying! To those that are dead and rejected the "life preserver" that is the blood of Christ this is certainly true. But to the dying? What about the thief on the cross? Jesus is prepared to grant salvation to all who accept Him and His atoning sacrifice even if they are upon their death beds. Read Matthew 20:1-16.

He gives life to those who have no life at all.

This is certainly true - He changes men from the inside out. He gives them a new life.[/quote:12lvvnng]

The premise is wrong. And this is the reason that so many fall into the trap of believing that man can accept or reject life. A man who is drowning still has life and can grasp onto a life preserver. A man who is dead cannot.

The truth is, we are NOT all dying. Those who have not received the gift of life are DEAD. And it is only by the grace of God that man has life - for he can do nothing to achieve it. You see the righteousness that God requires can never be built on a human decision to 'accept' life.

 

[mutzrein]

Hawkins

You said,

"Sinners include both sheep and goats, only God can distinguish. Because we as humans can hardly judge correctly, we need to love everyone.

Matthew 13:29
'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them."

To suggest that only God can distinguish between the sheep and goats is wrong. Perhaps you are having the wool pulled over your eyes.

Even the servants knew the difference between the wheat and the tares.