Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
If I ask someone for a gift, did I earn it, or work for it when I got it handed to me?
- Thread starter llama
- Start date
LovethroughDove
Member
Drew - I appreciate you and your knowledge of scripture. If we're all one body here, sometimes parts of our body ain't communicating quite right......but we have to put up with eachother. Not saying you have to stay. But just saying.
Kidron
Member
Jesus is speaking of Himself as .... "THE Way, The Truth, and, The Life, no one can come to the Father, but by ME".....Jn 14:6
He is the "narrow (ONLY) way" to the Father.
See the "world" and "religions" say that....."there are many paths to the same God".
Jesus says.....no, there is just ONE God, and im the only Way there".
"come unto Me".
"before Abraham was, I AM".
"Alpha and Omega"
Thomas said...."my Lord and my GOD".
Not fell away from salvation?
Let's see from the context if Jesus was referring to salvation.
12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
The context of verse 13 concerns salvation.
Jesus said here in verse 12 that the devil "takes away" the word out of their heart, before they can believe... lest they believe and be saved.
13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.
Luke 8:12-13
This is clearly not the case in verse 13, the devil was not able to "take away" the word out of their heart.
These in verse 13 clearly satisfied the requirement Jesus gives in order to be saved.
The problem with these folks in this example, is that they only believed for a while.
They heard the message of the kingdom, and believed temporarily... for a while, then they returned to their former state, which is unbelief.
A temporary believer is a person who believes for a while, then no longer believes, which any rational person realizes that if a person is not a believer, then he is an un believer.
Now it's up to you to show us the proof from the bible where unbelievers are promised salvation.
JLB
Kidron
Member
Actually, vs 13 says "in time of temptation", so this is a reference to the tempter, and Satan is the tempter.
Also, keep in mind that the belief which activates salvation is a belief of the heart and not of the head.
Temptation is not a heart issue, its a head issue., and faith-belief is a heart issue that is a different type of belief.
You can acknowledge that something is true and accept it, but that does not mean you TRUST it.
You believe that its true that Obama is president, but do you trust him?
So, your belief is separate from your trust.
See it?
So, the belief that is the saving belief that releases salvation from God to us, is TRUST, and not just the head belief that acknowledges that something is true.
Many people believe that Jesus is real, but they do not TRUST Him by Faith.
No it's a reference to persecution.
This was a warning to His disciples, for them, and for their disciples to come, to remain faithful, even unto death.
But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy;yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.
Matthew 13:20-21
Jesus said, concerning even the great tribulation... Those endure to the end will be saved.
Matthew 24:13
As we see the signs Jesus gave us, concerning His coming and the end of the age, with the great tribulation on the horizon, this message is crucial, especially for this generation.
The word used in Luke 8:13, "fall away", is also used in
Hebrews 3:12-14 and is rendered "depart from".
This word is used of them that will turn away or depart from or fall away from the Lord.
Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end.
Hebrews 3:12-13
Steadfast unto the end...
Endure to the end...
Will will have become partakers of Christ... If we endure to the end.
For it is the end of our faith that is the salvation of our soul.
1 Peter 1:9
JLB
Kidron
Member
Yes,
The eternal reward for us trusting in Christ on earth, for being born again, is the salvation of our souls for eternity.
In other words.....the RESULT OF OUR FAITH, IS THE ETERNAL SALVATION OF OUR SOULS.
Once you are born again on EARTH, the result is, that you are going to Heaven forever. (Salvation of your soul).
Correct. The second soil fell away from their faith.
His mention that they believed for a while is the reference to salvation. But falling away refers to their faith, which ceased.
Actually, the whole parable is about production, or fruit. Or what prevents fruit production.
In the 1st soil, they weren't saved, so obviously there was no fruit.
In the 2nd soil, they did believe and were saved, BUT because of testing/temptation, their faith ceased and there was no fruit.
In the 3rd soil, they also believed and were saved, BUT because of distractions, such as the "cares of this life", there was no fruit.
In the 4th soil, they believed and were saved, AND because of their dedication, they DID produce fruit.
The problem is these saved people didn't produce fruit because they fell away from their faith.
Again, no. While they did cease to believe, because they had believed, they were saved nonetheless.
This is proven from Scripture in Romans when Paul defined justification and eternal life as gifts of God, and then writing that God's gifts are irrevocable.
This is also proven from Scripture from Eph 1:13 and 14 with 4:30 and 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5, which is about the fact that WHEN one believes they are placed IN UNION with Christ and sealed with the Holy Spirit of PROMISE, for the day of redemption, which is a GUARANTEE of God's own possession.
All this is review. No one has shown from exegesis that these verses do not teach eternal security.
All of this is irrelevant to the facts of Scripture. Eternal life is irrevocable and each believer is put into union with Christ and sealed with the Holy Spirit for the day of redemption.
I just did, again.
But let's be clear. Not just any unbeliever. Only those who have believed.
Unless someone can show from Scripture that Paul wasn't including eternal life when he wrote Rom 11:29 AND Eph 1:13,14, 4:30 and 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5 do not teach eternal security, will I accept your position.
If you endure to the end.. if you continue in the faith... if you are not moved away from the hope of the Gospel... if you do not depart from Him... if you abide in Him. John 15:1-6, Colossians 1:23, Hebrews 3:12-14, Matthew 24:13
The end of your faith, NOT THE BEGINNING, but the end of your faith is the salvation of your soul.
JLB
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:29
Eternal, nor life, nor salvation are found in this verse.
There is your scripture that eternal life is not found in Romans 11:29
The same thought process you used to try and prove that unbelievers are really believers in Luke 8:13, is the same thought process that "magically" creates a word in a verse that isn't there.
[Too personal. Address the topic please. WIP]
JLB
Last edited by a moderator:
A temporary believer is a person who believes for a while, then no longer believes, which any rational person realizes that if a person is not a believer, then he is an un believer.
Believe = saved
Believe for a while = saved for a while.
if a person no longer believes, they have become an unbeliever.
Until you produce a scripture, that says unbelievers are saved, the OSAS has become as chaff on the summer threshing floor.
JLB
No faith = No salvation
Unless you can produce a scripture that shows there is some other way to be saved without faith in Jesus Christ, then your doctrine in null and void.
JLB
Kidron
Member
-
You listed a list of works, in an effort to prove that you save yourself. (See Titus 3:5 for the revelation) that its not by all those works you listed.
Like this, JLB:
Titus 3:5
5.... >Not by works of righteousness which we have done<, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6... Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7.... That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
You would have to write out your scripture for examination, because those references don't say that.
JLB
Really, continuing to believe in Christ for salvation is trying to save myself?
21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled
22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight--
23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.Colossians 1:21-23
No continuing in the faith = No reconciled to God.
You must endure to the end to be saved. Matthew 24:13
Kidron
Member
-
Its a work to a person who does not understand that the Blood has already been applied.
So, this person keeps trying to work to keep believing, work to keep believing, work to keep believing..... because they ither are not saved, or they do not understand that its not FAITH that saves them.
So, a person who keeps endlessly talking and worrying about losing faith, keeping faith, losing faith, keeping faith, is admitting they believe that FAITH is their savior.
And to that person, Jesus says....."oh really"?
"OH REALLY"
Titus 3:5
5 ...NOT BY WORKS of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6.... Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7.... That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Last edited:
Those who keep his commandments will remain in his love John 15:10
So God is love. But love that is unrequited becomes anger, for God is a devouring fire, a jealous God. Deut. 4:2
In the OT, Israel made idols and went after and worshipped other gods which were not even gods which stirred the LORD to anger, being God is a jealous God, jealous that those who he rescued and made his people were unfaithful to him. He commanded Israel to take possession of the land he gave them, but they would not do it, so he made them wander in the wilderness until all the generation who did not do as he said was destroyed. Deut. 9:23 Deut. 2;14
This is why Jesus said, You shall love God with all your heart and with all your mind and with all your soul. That is the first great commandment in the law. Mt. 22:37
Then he said, He who has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me; and he who loves me will be loved by my Father. John 14:2
So if you don't keep his commandments, you don't love Jesus. So why would you not keep his commandments and remain in his love?
If you don't remain in the vine you will be cut off from the life of the vine.
Last edited: