If I ask someone for a gift, did I earn it, or work for it when I got it handed to me?

[MarkT]

So, you are actually saying, or rather trying to prove that God stops loving His Children if they dont keep his commandments?
Well, if that is the case, God's love is a cheap and useless thing indeed.
But the good news is, you are wrong., and God's Love is eternal, its everlasting.
The Proof.?
Is that God as Jesus, gave himself not for a world of "commandment keepers", but instead for filthy sinners, whom he LOVED.
"For God so LOVED that he gave".....and he didnt need them to abide in Him, as God loves because HE IS LOVE and this is not ever changed based on someone's behavior.
1 John 4:8

I'm saying a son honours his father by keeping his commandments. He who has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me; and he who loves me will be loved by my Father. John 14:2

 

[MarkT]

Eternal security does exist. Ironically it exists in Christ for those who keep his commandments; the very thing you are arguing against.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

"eternal life", is that we are in the "Body of Christ", eternally, and this is sealed by the Holy Spirit, and cant be undone by behavior.

Right. It is undone by unbelief.

you cant undo what the Cross, once applied, has eternally completed for you.

Unbelief shuts off access to the one-time for all time sacrifice of Christ continually ministering on behalf of the believer (not the unbeliever) in heaven.

"through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand." (Romans 5:2 NASB)

"you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off." (Romans 11:20-22 NASB)

No more faith, no more access to the kindness and grace of God in Christ.

The forum is running like a piece of poo again. I'll be back later.

 

[Kidron]

I'm saying a son honours his father by keeping his commandments. He who has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me; and he who loves me will be loved by my Father. John 14:2

Yes i understand what you are saying.
But do you understand that you can keep all the commandments from the day you are born, till the day you die, Yet, if you are not saved, you are eternally Lost?
God does not accept you or keep you based on how you behave, he accepts you based on what Christ did for you that has been credited to you, when you believed the Gospel and are born again.
And conversely , you can break all the commandments, and still be on your way to heaven, as long as you have been FORGIVEN.
So, its not about keeping commandments, or trying to find verses that can be misapplied to try to eliminate the Blood Atonement, but rather its about understanding the Grace of God, believing it, and resting in it.
God never gets rid of His (born again) Children, no matter how they behave.

Titus 3:5-8

 

[Kidron]

Eternal security does exist. Ironically it exists in Christ for those who keep his commandments; the very thing you are arguing against.

If keeping the 10 commandments, or the 2 commandment that Jesus gave... could save you,... then Jesus didnt need to bleed out while hanging on a Cross.
Understand?
Jesus didnt get nailed to a cross so that commandments can save you, and so, you might do a study on why Paul is preaching "Christ Crucified" as the Gospel, instead of what you are preaching, Mark T.
1st Corinthians 1:23, "for we preach CHRIST CRUCIFIED"..
Check it out when you have time.

Also, the reason eternal security exists, is because Jesus exists.
A Christian is told in 1John 5:11-13 that you can KNOW RIGHT NOW you HAVE eternal life, by understanding that to have Jesus who IS Eternal life, is to have eternal life, which IS eternal security.
Fact.

 

[LovethroughDove]

If keeping the 10 commandments, or the 2 commandment that Jesus gave... could save you,... then Jesus didnt need to bleed out while hanging on a Cross.
Understand?
Jesus didnt get nailed to a cross so that commandments can save you, and so, you might do a study on why Paul is preaching "Christ Crucified" as the Gospel, instead of what you are preaching, Mark T.

Kidron, that is not what we are talking about here. We are talking about the commands of Jesus. His Holy Spirit has commands.

 

[Kidron]

Right. It is undone by unbelief.

Salvation is not like a sink faucet whereby you can shut it off or on at will.
You make me smile.
And in case you haven't noticed, you are again trying to prove your personal gospel.... that having faith or not having faith, = faith saves you..
It doesn't.
God saves you., once.= for eternity.
You have faith, God accepts it...and you are SAVED.
It is not a process of daily faith that saves you, but rather its the atonement being applied to you when you first believe, that SAVED you, and keeps you saved.

Titus 3:5-8

 

[LovethroughDove]

1 Thessalonians 5:19 Do not put out the Spirit's fire;

This is letting the Holy Spirit guide you.

 

[Kidron]

Kidron, that is not what we are talking about here. We are talking about the commands of Jesus. His Holy Spirit has commands.

Actually, that is what you are talking about.
But if you go and read the previous posts that came my way here, you'll find that JBodine and JLB< are both only quoting scriptures about works, or the "commandments", found in the Bible.
They both are convinced that works, (keeping commandments, etc", is what keeps you saved.
The answer, is simple....the same Grace that saved you, the blood atonement, the '"gift of righteousness", is the same thing that keeps you saved.
And if you try to adjust this into "commandments", or "enduring to the end" or "not willfully sinning", , then you are actually rejecting Jesus on the Cross as what saves you, while also substituting the blood atonement for something that you DO to be saved or to keep yourself saved.
See, there is no keeping yourself saved.
God/Jesus have ither saved you (completed for eterntity), or you are not saved.

Titus 3:5-8

 

[LovethroughDove]

1 John 2:3-6 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. the man who says, "I know him", but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word. God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

If you let the Holy Spirit guide you, you will begin to look like the Son of God.

 

[Kidron]

1 John 2:3-6 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. the man who says, "I know him", but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word. God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

If you let the Holy Spirit guide you, you will begin to look like the Son of God.

Your bible says that .....God justified the UNGODLY.....Romans 4:5.
So, that includes all liars, murders, rapists, child molesters, lazy Chirstians who leave their shopping carts in the parking slots at Walmart, people who dont stop at all stop signs when they drive in a residential area, people who smoke, Christians who use the "F" word, people who download porn, Christians who cheat on their Taxes, people who are gay....
All are justified, sanctified, redeemed, by the blood of the Lamb., and they never have to keep a commandment to be so.
So, dont worry about commands or commandments as the way you get to heaven, as keeping them all wont save you one inch.
Instead, be happy that Christ on a Cross has given you eternal life for FREE, no commandments to keep, required.

Titus 3:5-8

 

[LovethroughDove]

Actually, that is what you are talking about.
But if you go and read the previous posts that came my way here, you'll find that JBodine and JLB< are both only quoting scriptures about works, or the "commandments", found in the Bible.
Titus 3:5-8

I don't think they were, but they can call me out on that if I'm wrong. I believe they were speaking of the commands of the Holy Spirit. But like I said.......they can tell me otherwise.

 

[Kidron]

I don't think they were, but they can call me out on that if I'm wrong. I believe they were speaking of the commands of the Holy Spirit. But like I said.......they can tell me otherwise.

The commandments of the Holy Spirit?
Hummm.
Well, God gave commandments, and Jesus gave a couple, and then the Apostles quoted Jesus.
Do you have a verse where the Holy Spirit is giving commandments?.
Im not really following you.
I can go to Act 15, where the Apostle's said...

28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.


So, is this what you are talking about when you speak of the commands of the Holy Spirit?
Can you list a scripture or be specific?

 

[LovethroughDove]

All are justified, sanctified, redeemed, by the blood of the Lamb., and they never have to keep a commandment to be so.
So, dont worry about commands or commandments as the way you get to heaven, as keeping them all wont save you one inch.
Instead, be happy that Christ on a Cross has given you eternal life for FREE, no commandments to keep, required.

Titus 3:5-8

Well, this is why the blood of Christ is necessary. No human could be Holy (except the Christ). If you have been given the Holy Spirit now that the blood has entered the equation, you will be transformed into the likeness of God's Son.

Romans 8:29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

Wow.............the blood is that Holy! To make an unholy Person, into the likeness of the Son. Yes! Yes! Yes!

 

[LovethroughDove]

The commandments of the Holy Spirit?
Hummm.
Well, God gave commandments, and Jesus gave a couple, and then the Apostles quoted Jesus.
Do you have a verse where the Holy Spirit is giving commandments?.
Im not really following you.
I can go to Act 15, where the Apostle's said...

28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.


So, is this what you are talking about when you speak of the commands of the Holy Spirit?
Can you list a scripture or be specific?

Yep, that is what I'm talking about.

Galatians 5:24-26 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

 

[Kidron]

Yep, that is what I'm talking about.

Galatians 5:24-26 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

What are you trusting to get you to heaven?

 

[LovethroughDove]

What are you trusting to get you to heaven?

The Holy Spirit whom I love.

 

[Kidron]

Wow.............the blood is that Holy! To make an unholy Person, into the likeness of the Son. Yes! Yes! Yes!

Yes,
that is Salvation.
Has nothing to do with keeping commandments, or doing good works, or trying to keep believing,.
Its Jesus and His blood that keep you saved, as these have allowed you to have God's righteousness.
Commandment keeping, cant do this for you.
Only Jesus saves.

 

[Kidron]

The Holy Spirit whom I love.

That would be the Holy Spirit who is inside you, as "Christ in you the hope of Glory", who has "seated you in heavenly places" right now, and "sealed you to the day of redemption".
Yep, thats the one.
And He is not a commandment that keeps you saved.

 

[LovethroughDove]

I love the Holy Spirit though (more than myself)