If I ask someone for a gift, did I earn it, or work for it when I got it handed to me?

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"Again, I repeat: there are NO VERSES that teach or even imply that turning away from God or ceasing to believe results in loss of eternal life. None whatsoever."

Because of unbelief they were broken off,and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. Romans 11:20

They were broken off.

OK, but so what? Where is eternal life mentioned in Romans 11, except in v.29? The context of being "broken off" is in reference to Jews who never believed. Not that they had at one time believed and then ceased to believe.

So your view of the passage is flawed.

Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; John 15:2

How about sticking with CONTEXT.

Again, the onus is you to provide a scripture that teaches a person can be severed from Christ, yet still be saved, by having eternal life, apart from Him.JLB

The proof has been given. Eternal life is a gift of God (Rom 6:23), and God's gifts are irrevocable (Rom 11:29).

The onus is on you to prove that taking back a gift does NOT demonstrate regret in giving it in the first place.

I'll be waiting for your reply.

 

[FreeGrace]

I sid this:
"No where in Scripture do we read about God "producing" eternal life for anyone. God GIVES eternal life. He doesn't "produce" it for people.."

Either you have eternal life in and of yourself, or God Himself provides eternal life to you

Of course. But this doesn't answer or address my comment about "producing" eternal life, which you've been using in your posts. Eternal life isn't "produced". It's GIVEN. Do you understand the difference?

Again, the onus is you to provide a scripture that teaches a person can be severed from Christ, yet still be saved, by having eternal life, apart from Him.

The teaching is OBVIOUS when one accepts the truth of Scripture that eternal life is a gift of God (Rom 6:23) and that God's gifts are irrevocable (Rom 11:29).

Please prove that taking back a gift DOESN'T DEMONSTRATE REGRET.

If that can't be proven, then your point is flawed and untrue.

 

[JLB]

The teaching is OBVIOUS when one accepts the truth of Scripture that eternal life is a gift of God (Rom 6:23) and that God's gifts are irrevocable (Rom 11:29).

One had eternal life as long as He remains connected to Jesus Christ in relationship, Who is the source of eternal life.

If you become severed from Christ, then you become severed from the eternal life He provides.

Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; John 15:2

If you don't have a scripture that the person continues to have eternal life, after they have been severed from or broken off from Christ.

 

[Jim Parker]

I do enjoy the truth. And Scripture is truth.

Me too!

I'm waiting for any verse or passages that teaches that one must continue in the faith in order to continue to be saved.

(1) JN 15:1 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit,

15:5 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 IF ANYONE DOES NOT REMAIN IN ME, HE IS LIKE A BRANCH THAT IS THROWN AWAY AND WITHERS; SUCH BRANCHES ARE PICKED UP, THROWN INTO THE FIRE AND BURNED.

(2) RO 11:17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21 For IF GOD DID NOT SPARE THE NATURAL BRANCHES, HE WILL NOT SPARE YOU EITHER.

22 CONSIDER THEREFORE THE KINDNESS AND STERNNESS OF GOD: STERNNESS TO THOSE WHO FELL, BUT KINDNESS TO YOU, PROVIDED THAT YOU CONTINUE IN HIS KINDNESS. OTHERWISE, YOU ALSO WILL BE CUT OFF.

(3)1CO 9:27 No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

(4) 1CO 10:12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!

(5) COL 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. 22 But now HE HAS RECONCILED YOU BY CHRIST'S PHYSICAL BODY THROUGH DEATH TO PRESENT YOU HOLY IN HIS SIGHT, WITHOUT BLEMISH AND FREE FROM ACCUSATION-- 23 IF YOU CONTINUE IN YOUR FAITH, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.

(6) HEB 3:12 See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. 14 WE HAVE COME TO SHARE IN CHRIST IF WE HOLD FIRMLY TILL THE END THE CONFIDENCE WE HAD AT FIRST.

(7) HEB 6:4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6 IF THEY FALL AWAY, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting himto public disgrace.

(8) PHP 3:7 But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. 8 What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ--the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith. 10 I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead.

PHP 3:12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13 Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.

(9)2PE 1:5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.10 Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For IF YOU DO THESE THINGS, YOU WILL NEVER FALL,

(10) 2PE 2: 20 IF THEY HAVE ESCAPED THE CORRUPTION OF THE WORLD BY KNOWING OUR LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST AND ARE AGAIN ENTANGLED IN IT AND OVERCOME, THEY ARE WORSE OFF AT THE END THAN THEY WERE AT THE BEGINNING. 21 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.

(11) EZE 18:24 "But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die.”

One receives eternal life WHEN on believes. John 5:24

The receiving of a gift does not exclude the possibility of discarding the gift.

Eternal life is a gift of God. Rom 6:23

The word "eternal" refers to the word "life." The life is eternal. One may still discard the gift.

God's gifts are irrevocable. Rom 11:29

Once and discard the gift and refuse to do His calling.

Thank you for playing "Dueling Proof-Texts"!

iakov the fool

 

[FreeGrace]

One had eternal life as long as He remains connected to Jesus Christ in relationship, Who is the source of eternal life.

Please provide any verse that actually says that. But there aren't any.

If you become severed from Christ, then you become severed from the eternal life He provides.

Except one HUGE problem with that opinion. Jesus gives eternal life when one believes. It's not a trickle out of a hose that can be shut off, which your opinion seems to suggest.

The gift is given COMPLETE. Onus is on you to prove otherwise. I don't know of any verse that suggests that eternal life is like a trickle out of a hose that can be stopped.

One has all the eternal life one gets WHEN they believe. Jn 5:24.

Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; John 15:2

Please prove that "take away" means "take away one's eternal life".

If you don't have a scripture that the person continues to have eternal life, after they have been severed from or broken off from Christ.

The verse that continues to refute your opinion is Rom 11:29. While your opinion suggests that actual Greek scholars translated the Greek word poorly or wrongly, that would suggest that you know more than actual Greek scholars.

They used the word "irrevocable" because that was the BEST WORD to convey the meaning of the Greek word.

And, taking the definition from Strong's; "not to be repented of", onus is on you to prove that taking something back does NOT demonstrate a change of mind, or repenting.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"I'm waiting for any verse or passages that teaches that one must continue in the faith in order to continue to be saved."

(1) JN 15:1 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit,

Where in this verse is there anything about continuing in the faith in order to continue to be saved. How does bearing fruit relate to believing? Further, prove that "cutting off the branch", which is an agricultural metaphor demands a reference to loss of eternal life.

Esp since eternal life is a gift of God, per Rom 6:23, and Rom 11:29 says that God's gifts are irrevocable. Your view is in direct contradiction with that.

15:5 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 IF ANYONE DOES NOT REMAIN IN ME, HE IS LIKE A BRANCH THAT IS THROWN AWAY AND WITHERS; SUCH BRANCHES ARE PICKED UP, THROWN INTO THE FIRE AND BURNED.

How do you know this isn't about fellowship? John made a huge point about fellowship with the Father and Son in ! John 1:3,6,7.

And 1 Cor 1:9 - God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

These verses were written to believers; already saved.

[/QUOTE](3)1CO 9:27 No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.[/QUOTE]
Salvation is not a prize. This verse doesn't support your claim.

(4) 1CO 10:12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!

Please prove from exegesis that "falling" refers to loss of salvation.

Regarding all the other verses provided, I'm not going to address each one. That would be a sermon per verse. But from the verses I did comment on, the same principle applies. You've not proven that "falling" means loss of salvation.

The receiving of a gift does not exclude the possibility of discarding the gift.

That is excluded because the Bible NEVER even suggests such a thing.

In fact, Jesus refutes that idea in John 10:28,29. We are held in the Father's hand, with no strings attached. And He gives NO suggestion that we can fall out of His hand.

The word "eternal" refers to the word "life." The life is eternal. One may still discard the gift.

That must be proven from Scripture. If Scripture doesn't teach the idea, there is no reason to believe it.

Once and discard the gift and refuse to do His calling.

Yes, one can refuse to "do His calling". But ONCE one believes, they HAVE eternal life. It can't be refused.

Please show from Scripture the teaching that once one HAS eternal life, they can later on refuse it.

Given what Jesus said about being held in the Father's hand in John 10, that would suggest that we have the power to get out of His hand. That's NOT what Jesus said. Or even suggested.

Thank you for playing "Dueling Proof-Texts"!

Nope. I don't play games. I provide verses that clearly show eternal security. You haven't done that yet. And your claims are refuted by the verses I have provided.

 

[Jim Parker]

Please provide any verse that actually says that.

I already have.

While your opinion suggests that actual Greek scholars translated the Greek word poorly or wrongly

It suggests nothing of the sort. I'm sure they can be trusted.

Your comments demonstrate that you have not understood what I have said.

I apologize for my inability to communicate my thoughts more clearly.

iakov the fool

 

[Jim Parker]

Where in this verse is there anything about continuing in the faith in order to continue to be saved.

It is quite clear that, in order to remain "in the vine", that is; "in Christ", one must produce fruit. Fruit is a reference to the fruit of the Spirit. (love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control) One "bears those fruits" through action.

Jesus said that the Father cuts off every branch "in me" that does not bear fruit. "In me" is "in Christ" wherein lies ones hope of glory.

To be "in Christ" is to be saved. To be cut off from the vine is to no longer be saved. Those branches (people) wither, are gathered up, and thrown in the fire. I assume you can figure out the fire is a metaphor for hell. (I hope so, at least!)

It is astounding to me that you have not seen that meaning!

I don't think we speak quite the same language. You seem to have understood nothing of what I have posted to you!

Oh well! I gave it a try.

You have a really nice day!

Perhaps I'll see you among the multitude worshiping before the throne!

iakov the fool

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"I'm waiting for any verse or passages that teaches that one must continue in the faith in order to continue to be saved."

I already have.

I think you've confused what a verse SAYS with what a verse means. And John 15:1 doesn't mean that one must continue in the faith in order to continue to be saved. It's in fact speaking of fellowship.

When believers are unfaithful or disobedient, they are not in fellowship with Christ. The issue of John 15 is fruit production, not getting or staying saved.

In order to produce fruit, the believer must be in fellowship. Which is also referred to as "abiding in Christ".

 

[FreeGrace]

It is quite clear that, in order to remain "in the vine", that is; "in Christ", one must produce fruit.

I think you have it backwards. In order to produce fruit, one must be in fellowship with Christ, or to abide in Christ, or to be in the vine.

Your version suggests that one needs works to stay saved. That is not a Biblical teaching.

Fruit is a reference to the fruit of the Spirit. (love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control) One "bears those fruits" through action.

What is this based on? Fruit is used to describe works or deeds as well. And since both John 15 and the parable of the soils is about fruit production, your view falls apart, since it is NOT the believer who "produces" the 'fruit of the Spirit', but the Spirit Himself.

Jesus said that the Father cuts off every branch "in me" that does not bear fruit. "In me" is "in Christ" wherein lies ones hope of glory.

This is about fellowship, not relationship. Knowing the difference makes all the difference.

To be "in Christ" is to be saved. To be cut off from the vine is to no longer be saved. Those branches (people) wither, are gathered up, and thrown in the fire. I assume you can figure out the fire is a metaphor for hell. (I hope so, at least!)

This interpretation is impossible, because Jesus taught previously (John 10) that believers are held in the Father's hand. He didn't provide any exceptions.

And Paul said that God's gifts are irrevocable (Rom 11:29), and eternal life is a gift of God (Rom 6:23). So I think you need to re-think your whole theology.

Loss of eternal life is impossible because it is irrevocable.

It is astounding to me that you have not seen that meaning!

Actually, I am astounded by believers who simply don't accept Rom 6:23 and Rom 11:29 as proof that one cannot lose salvation.

I don't think we speak quite the same language. You seem to have understood nothing of what I have posted to you!

You are correct to say we speak a different language. But I do understand what you have posted. And I don't agree with it because your view is that a believer can lose their salvation in spite of the fact that eternal life is irrevocable.

It's that simple.

 

[JLB]

Loss of eternal life is impossible because it is irrevocable.

Your redefining of words in the bible, while disregarding the many scriptures that teach us us we can in fact be "cut off" as a branch from Him, has led you to this faulty conclusion.

For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Romans 11:29

This word means; not repentant of, unregretted, and is not the same as the more modern English word irrevocable. This Greek word is used only twice and does not mean what you are implying it means.


Eternal Life is relationship with Jesus Christ.
And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3

This scripture actually defines what eternal life is, whereas Romans 11:29 does not contain the word eternal life, but is "presumed", through human reasoning.

• Paul establishes who will receive eternal life and who will not, at the beginning of his letter to the Romans.

6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:6-8


Again the actual words Eternal Life are used, and to whom eternal life will be granted is clear.
Romans 11:29 does not contain the words eternal life.



For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

Again the words Eternal Life are used, and they are applied to those "in Christ Jesus our Lord".

As Long as a person is IN CHRIST, they have access to the eternal life within Him.

John 15 teaches us that there will be some who will be severed from Him, after they have come to be IN HIM.

• If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Romans 6:23 says the gift of God is eternal life IN CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD.

If a person is in Christ, then removed from Christ, then they have been removed from the eternal life IN CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD.


When a person studies all the scriptures that use the phrase ETERNAL LIFE, it becomes clear:

• What Eternal Life is: Knowing God and Jesus Christ whom He sent. John 17:3
• Where Eternal Life is: In Christ Jesus our Lord. [Not apart from Him: John 15:2,6] Romans 6:23
• Who will and will not receive Eternal Life: ...those who by patient continuance in doing good. Romans 2:7

For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God.



JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Your redefining of words in the bible, while disregarding the many scriptures that teach us us we can in fact be "cut off" as a branch from Him, has led you to this faulty conclusion.

I haven't redefined anything. I've POINTED OUT what Paul defined as God's gifts, which are irrevocable.

For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Romans 11:29

This word means; not repentant of, unregretted, and is not the same as the more modern English word irrevocable.

The Greek scholars who translated using "irrevocable" did so because it COMMUNICATES the meaning of the Greek word. Is your training more than those who translate the Bible?

This Greek word is used only twice and does not mean what you are implying it means.

It means exactly what the translators used. From my own lexicon: "not to be repented of; by IMPLICATION, irrevocable, enduring".

There you have it. The implication of being "not to be repented of" means to be irrevocable, or enduring.

So, eternal life is enduring.

If God does take away eternal life from anyone, please prove that such an action was "not to be repented of". Or revocable.

Eternal Life is relationship with Jesus Christ.

And irrevocable, or enduring.

And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3

This scripture actually defines what eternal life is, whereas Romans 11:29 does not contain the word eternal life, but is "presumed", through human reasoning.

Rom 11:29 doesn't "have to" contain the words eternal life. Because Paul ALREADY defined what God's gifts are previously in his letter to the Romans. So we already know what Paul meant by "gifts" in 11:29.

The onus is on anyone to prove from ch 11 that Paul defined anything else as being the gifts of God that are not revocable. Other than eternal life.

Paul establishes who will receive eternal life and who will not, at the beginning of his letter to the Romans.

Nope. Jesus Himself did that throughout the gospel of John. One receives eternal life through faith. John 3:16, 18, 5:24, 6:40, 47, 11:25-27.

6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

Ok, let's do this again. ch 2 begins with Paul dealing with the moralists, who "pass judgment" on others but do the same things. [Be nice! WIP ]

He then tells these moralists that in order to receive eternal life apart from faith (implied by the absence of faith in Paul's comments), they have to "continue to do good". iow, one would have to be perfect.

He repeats that idea in 2:13 - For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

However, then he said this, in 3:20 - Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

So, it is obvious that Paul taught that NO ONE can "observe the law" and thereby receive eternal life.

Paul then goes on to prove that righteousness comes through faith, NOT the law. NOT from "doing good".
3:22, 24, 26, 28, 30. Then, the entire 4th chapter is about being justified through faith. And to be justified is to have eternal life. They are inseparable.

Again the actual words Eternal Life are used, and to whom eternal life will be granted is clear.
Romans 11:29 does not contain the words eternal life.

Actually, I just explained that NO ONE will receive eternal life based on "continuance in doing good" because NO ONE can obey the law. Your point is refuted from Scripture.

 

[JLB]

Ok, let's do this again. ch 2 begins with Paul dealing with the moralists, who "pass judgment" on others but do the same things. [Be nice! WIP ]

He then tells these moralists that in order to receive eternal life apart from faith (implied by the absence of faith in Paul's comments), they have to "continue to do good". iow, one would have to be perfect.

Where is this "made up" word moralist found in these verses?

When will you stop redefining and making up your own words and interjecting them into the scriptures.


Paul is writing to the Church at Rome:

Paul, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated to the gospel of God...
To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints:

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.


8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world. 9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of His Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers, 10 making request if, by some means, now at last I may find a way in the will of God to come to you. 11 For I long to see you, that I may impart to you some spiritual gift, so that you may be established— Romans 1:1, 7-11


Paul is writing to Christians.

Christians who are in the Church at Rome.

Paul plainly writes these words to Christian believers in Jesus Christ:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, Romans 1:18

...who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:6-8

Paul exhorts the Galatians, The Ephesians, and the Corinthians, all of whom are Christians, and warns them against practicing a sinful lifestyle of walking after the flesh, and receiving the same condemnation as the unbelievers.

14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace... Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:14,16

Same Roman Christians

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1




JLB

 

[JLB]

Actually, I just explained that NO ONE will receive eternal life based on "continuance in doing good" because NO ONE can obey the law. Your point is refuted from Scripture.

This was written to Christians who do not have the law.

4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God. Romans 2:4-10


...for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel. Romans 2;14-16


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Where is this "made up" word moralist found in these verses?

The obvious reason I said "moralist" is because of what Paul wrote: "you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things."

It is the moralist who "passes judgment" on others. It is the moralist who is judgmental. And Paul addresses them and their unbiblical view of how to receive eternal life.

When will you stop redefining and making up your own words and interjecting them into the scriptures.

Do you believe that one can earn eternal life by their behavior? Moralists do.

Paul is writing to the Church at Rome:
Paul, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated to the gospel of God...
To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints:

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

What seems so clear is that there were moralists in the audience, and Paul addresses them in ch 2.

Paul is writing to Christians.

No kidding!! And some are "holier-than-thou" moralists who think they can judge others.

...who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

Please continue reading in Romans, for the FULL STORY.

Paul says this: For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 2:13

Kinda sounds like people will be declared righteous (receive eternal life) by obeying the law, or "continuing to do good" per 2:6.

However, Paul then wrote this, just to be clear about the whole issue: Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. 3:20

So, please tell me: who will be declared righteous by obeying or observing the law? No one.

Then, Paul makes it very clear; righteousness is through faith in Christ in 3:22, 24, 26, 28, 30 and all of ch 4.

And we know that WHEN one believes in Christ, they HAVE eternal life (Jn 5:24).

And we know that eternal life is a gift of God (Rom 6:23).

And we know that God's gifts are irrevocable (Rom 11:29).

[Let's drop the personally directed comments please. ToS 2.4. WIP]

Paul exhorts the Galatians, The Ephesians, and the Corinthians, all of whom are Christians, and warns them against practicing a sinful lifestyle of walking after the flesh, and receiving the same condemnation as the unbelievers.

Please stop making up stories. Paul NEVER said any believer would receive the same condemnation as unbelievers.

14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace... Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:14,16

Not in these verses. So where?

While I address your posts point by point, could you do the same, since you think my points are invalid?

Take them point by point and show from Scripture how my points are in error.

 

[FreeGrace]

This was written to Christians who do not have the law.

That would be the Gentile believers. But the same is true of the Jewish believers; no one will be declared righteous based on obeying the law. Rom 3:20

 

[JLB]

The obvious reason I said "moralist" is because of what Paul wrote: "you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things."

It is the moralist who "passes judgment" on others. It is the moralist who is judgmental. And Paul addresses them and their unbiblical view of how to receive eternal life.

More just made up "interpretations" interjected into scripture.


Paul states plainly what He has stated throughout the New Testament to all Christians.

Paul contrasts two type of Christians: Obedient Christians and disobedient Christians.

7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:7-8

This is not comparing Christians with unbelievers, or "moralist's" or Jews or whatever you can come up with.

• Christians...who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; will receive eternal life.

• Christians...who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, will receive indignation and wrath.

Paul exhorts: the Galatians, The Ephesians, and the Corinthians, all of whom are Christians, and warns them against practicing a sinful lifestyle of walking after the flesh, and thereby receiving the same condemnation as the unbelievers.


Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them. Ephesians 5:6


Therefore do not be partakers with them.

Do not be a partaker of God's wrath with them.





JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

More just made up "interpretations" interjected into scripture.

Instead of this kind of response, please show how my interpretation isn't correct.

Paul states plainly what He has stated throughout the New Testament to all Christians.

Paul contrasts two type of Christians: Obedient Christians and disobedient Christians.

7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:7-8

No need to re-hash this. My explanation stands.

This is not comparing Christians with unbelievers, or "moralist's" or Jews or whatever you can come up with.

Those who judge others are moralists.

Christians...who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; will receive eternal life.

• Christians...who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, will receive indignation and wrath.

• I showed where Paul made it clear that NO ONE will be declared righteous by obeying the law. Rom 3:20

 

[JLB]

nstead of this kind of response, please show how my interpretation isn't correct.

Paul exhorts: the Galatians, The Ephesians, and the Corinthians, all of whom are Christians, and warns them against practicing a sinful lifestyle of walking after the flesh, and thereby receiving the same condemnation as the unbelievers.


Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
7 Therefore do not be partakers with them. Ephesians 5:6-7


Therefore do not be partakers with them.

Do not be a partaker of God's wrath with them.

Paul states plainly what He has stated throughout the New Testament to all Christians.

Paul contrasts two type of Christians: Obedient Christians and disobedient Christians.

7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:7-8

This is not comparing Christians with unbelievers, or "moralist's" or Jews or whatever you can come up with.

• Christians...who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; will receive eternal life.

• Christians...who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, will receive indignation and wrath.

...because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them.



JLB

 

[JLB]

No need to re-hash this. My explanation stands.

You have not explained anything, but rather, as Paul says, you offer empty words of deception.

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience...
Therefore do not be partakers with them.

Believers in Jesus Christ, who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, will be rewarded with—indignation and wrath,



JLB