If man has an immortal soul

[hybrid]

gentle folks,

has anybody quoted this verse already?

1 Tim 6:15-16
God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. NIV


if paul believed that only god possessed immortality, it's flipside was that human soul being a created thing cannot be immortal...

unless of course your a pantheist.

.

 

[CP_Mike]

gentle folks,

has anybody quoted this verse already?

1 Tim 6:15-16
God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. NIV


if paul believed that only god possessed immortality, it's flipside was that human soul being a created thing cannot be immortal...

unless of course your a pantheist.

.

You are right; immortality is a gift from God (Romans 6:23). But the soul is not the essence of the person, rather the life bound up in a body.

 

[hybrid]

But the soul is not the essence of the person, rather the life bound up in a body.

if so, makes the doctrine of an immortal soul the more unfeasible


..

 

[CP_Mike]

But the soul is not the essence of the person, rather the life bound up in a body.

if so, makes the doctrine of an immortal soul the more unfeasible


..

Absolutely! Lev 17:11 and DT 12:23 literally states the soul (correctly rendered 'life') is in the blood, and Numbers 23:10 clearly indicates the soul dies at physical death. What seems to be the problem is that the Greek idea of 'soul' is constantly read into scripture and distorts its original meanings..

 

[gazzamor]

This year I am reading the bible through, and I have been taking special note on what the bible says about the subject of death.
One of the features of the bible is that it harmonizes with it self. If you allow the bible to interpret it self, you come up with correct understanding of truth no matter what subject one studies. It is possible to incorrectly handle God’s word.
2 Timothy 2: 15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
Is the popular concept of immortality of the soul, that is at death, we ascend to be with God in heaven, correctly handling God’s word on this subject?
In my reading, I came across Psalm 49:15 which reads: 15 But God will redeem my life (soul KJV)from the grave; he will surely take me to himself. Selah
When does God redeem us from the grave, and take us to himself?
The words of Jesus:
John 14:1 "Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God ; trust also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.It’s not at death, but at Jesus’ second coming. The hope of the Christian is in the resurrection, not death.

Further on in Psalm 49: 17 for he will take nothing with him when he dies, his splendour will not descend with him.
Notice that he descends (to the grave), not ascends (to heaven)? This harmonizes with other verses: Eccl. 9: 10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the grave, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.
Genesis 3: 19 By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return."
We return to the dust of this earth, and are resurrected at Jesus' second coming. This is our hope in Christ.
Eccl. 12: 7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
Whatever God Breathed into Adam to make him a soul, a living being, (Gen. 2:7) is what goes back to God. This would include both righteous and wicked.

God Bless

gazzamor

 

[hybrid]

hello gazzamor,

1 Cor 15:52-54
For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory." NIV

2 Cor 5:4-5
4 For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come. NIV

then and only then we become immortals.

1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. NIV

1 Cor 15:35-38
35 But someone may ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?" 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body
NIV

not all shall be raised imperishable, only those who has the word of god and the spirit of god living in one's heart. the born agains.




.

 

[gazzamor]

Couldn’t agree with you more Hybrid. The problem arises in our understanding of the word “soulâ€Â. The biblical definition of “soul†is not some conscience entity that survives at death, but the whole person. Physical, emotional, spiritual. God did not place into Adam a soul, he became a soul, a living breathing human being. (Gen. 2:7)
You are quite right in saying that we don’t have immortality yet. We receive it at the second coming of Christ. God alone is immortal; we receive it as a gift from God, and, on the New Earth through the Tree of Life. (Revelation 2:7; 22:2,14,19).

The tree of life was taken from this earth after Adam and Eve sinned. Notice what God said: Gen. 3: 22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."
23 So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken.
24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

When we accept Jesus as our Saviour, we are promised eternal life, but we don’t have immortality, this comes when we are changed in a twinkling of an eye at Jesus’ second coming. This is not a new concept from the NT, it is as old as Job, who said:
Job 14: 14 If a man dies, will he live again? All the days of my hard service I will wait for my renewal to come. Job’s hope was in Jesus’ second coming when his renewal or change would come, and not at death.

Have a great day, and God Bless

gazzamor

 

[R7-12]

Hello all,

Just a quick comment on the immortal soul doctrine.

The belief that everyone has an immortal soul is in fact the highest possible form of polytheism and was first declared by Satan in the Garden when he lied to Eve and said, "surely you shall not die."

If the immortal soul doctrine is true then everyone is God - for God alone has immortality (1 Tim. 6:16).

However, the Bible is clear that mortal must be granted immortality through God's grace otherwise permanent nonexistence is certain.

R7-12

 

[mutzrein]

Hello all,

Just a quick comment on the immortal soul doctrine.

The belief that everyone has an immortal soul is in fact the highest possible form of polytheism and was first declared by Satan in the Garden when he lied to Eve and said, "surely you shall not die."

If the immortal soul doctrine is true then everyone is God - for God alone has immortality (1 Tim. 6:16).

However, the Bible is clear that mortal must be granted immortality through God's grace otherwise permanent nonexistence is certain following death.

R7-12

Good stuff. Yes - it is only by God's grace that man can be given eternal life. And this life is by the Spirit. Those who do not receive the spirit of life, perish.

 

[guibox]

It is refreshing to see that so many people can actually study the logic of the bible for themselves and see the truth of the non immortality of the soul.

As a Seventh Day Adventist, I have had the 'cult' card played so many times on this doctrine despite the myriads of biblical evidence such as what has been presented here by many of you.

The most desperate attempt by the traditionalist is to make all the bible verses you have quotes apply strictly to the body and not the soul (i.e, it is merely body that is the 'mortal that puts on immortality' at the resurrection. Even a casual read through 1 Corinthians 15 shows this is not only faulty logic, but one will not find this distinction anywhere in the Bible in application of terms of eternal life.

I can't figure out why this Greek/Catholic adopted doctrine can't be finally laid to rest instead of based on three ambiguous texts in the King's English when all the rest of the scriptures both contextually, logically and linguistically prove the opposite: that all man will rest in the grave until the resurrections and then immortality and rewards are given.

Praise God for revealing His truth of hope to us!