Bible Study If someone doesn't know about Christ, and has never heard of Christ, then where do they go when they die?

[Poor Old Spike]

Quote- "..the people throughout history who did not hear the gospel till it arrived at their home. I think that God is just, and His ruling will be fair even to them"
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Yes, he'll probably cut them some slack- "In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent" (Acts 17:30)

 

[Mike]

Please be observant of the rules for this forum. Non-Christians ask questions, and Christians respond to them. They are not to make this about their doctrinal differences.

 

[john darling]

Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when did we see you hungred, and fed you? or thirsty, and gave you drink?

When did we see you a stranger, and took you in? or naked, and clothed you?

Or when saw we you sick, or in prison, and came unto you?

And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Mt 25:24-40
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One of the most significant parts of this example is that the righteous didn't even realize they were helping God when they helped their neighbor. They asked, "when did we help you"? In other words, they were not performing these behaviors as a religious observance. They were just showing love, which is what God wants us to do, so he saved them.

In the story of the Good Samaritan, there is no mention of the stranger having correct theology or affiliation with the correct religious view. Instead, he is saved solely based on his willingness to show love for his neighbor.

When Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life; no one comes to the father but by me" he was not talking about correct religious affiliation. He was talking about his teachings, which are the values of the Kingdom of Heaven. The "way" of the kingdom of Heaven is illustrated in the teachings of Jesus, which is why he was so insistent that we obey him.

As in the story of the Good Samaritan, any person who does not know of the name of Jesus, but still loves his neighbor will be following the way of Jesus even if he does not consciously recognize it as the way of Jesus.

 

[OzSpen]

Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when did we see you hungred, and fed you? or thirsty, and gave you drink?

When did we see you a stranger, and took you in? or naked, and clothed you?

Or when saw we you sick, or in prison, and came unto you?

And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Mt 25:24-40
-------
One of the most significant parts of this example is that the righteous didn't even realize they were helping God when they helped their neighbor. They asked, "when did we help you"? In other words, they were not performing these behaviors as a religious observance. They were just showing love, which is what God wants us to do, so he saved them.

In the story of the Good Samaritan, there is no mention of the stranger having correct theology or affiliation with the correct religious view. Instead, he is saved solely based on his willingness to show love for his neighbor.

When Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life; no one comes to the father but by me" he was not talking about correct religious affiliation. He was talking about his teachings, which are the values of the Kingdom of Heaven. The "way" of the kingdom of Heaven is illustrated in the teachings of Jesus, which is why he was so insistent that we obey him.

As in the story of the Good Samaritan, any person who does not know of the name of Jesus, but still loves his neighbor will be following the way of Jesus even if he does not consciously recognize it as the way of Jesus.

John,

Would you please be able to clarify something for me, based on this post?

Do you believe Scripture teaches that for those who don't hear about Jesus before they die that good works will get them into heaven (God's kingdom)?

Oz

 

[john darling]

Do you believe Scripture teaches that for those who don't hear about Jesus before they die that good works will get them into heaven (God's kingdom)?

Hi OzSpen. What do you think about the Bible references I pointed to? The parable of the sheep and goats and the Good Samaritan?

 

[OzSpen]

Hi OzSpen. What do you think about the Bible references I pointed to? The parable of the sheep and goats and the Good Samaritan?

John,

I don't find anything in the text of Matt 25 that indicates this is a 'parable of the sheep and goats'. What it is according to Matt 25: 32-33 (NIV) is a judgment of the nations - ALL people - and the analogy is given of how a shepherd sorts the sheep from the goats when they are running together in the field.

It is God, the Judge, who determines who will enter his kingdom (the sheep) and who will be damned (the goats). The sheep are those whose faith in Christ alone for salvation is demonstrated by their works (see James 2).

We can't take Matt 25 in isolation from John 3:16 and John 5:24. Faith in Christ is demonstrated by works.

My question remains: Do you believe Scripture teaches that for those who don't hear about Jesus before they die, that their good works will be adequate to get them into heaven (God's kingdom)?

Oz

 

[for_his_glory]

Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when did we see you hungred, and fed you? or thirsty, and gave you drink?

When did we see you a stranger, and took you in? or naked, and clothed you?

Or when saw we you sick, or in prison, and came unto you?

And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Mt 25:24-40
-------
One of the most significant parts of this example is that the righteous didn't even realize they were helping God when they helped their neighbor. They asked, "when did we help you"? In other words, they were not performing these behaviors as a religious observance. They were just showing love, which is what God wants us to do, so he saved them.

In the story of the Good Samaritan, there is no mention of the stranger having correct theology or affiliation with the correct religious view. Instead, he is saved solely based on his willingness to show love for his neighbor.

When Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life; no one comes to the father but by me" he was not talking about correct religious affiliation. He was talking about his teachings, which are the values of the Kingdom of Heaven. The "way" of the kingdom of Heaven is illustrated in the teachings of Jesus, which is why he was so insistent that we obey him.

As in the story of the Good Samaritan, any person who does not know of the name of Jesus, but still loves his neighbor will be following the way of Jesus even if he does not consciously recognize it as the way of Jesus.

What do we do then with John 3:5-7; 3:16, 14:6 and Romans 10:9, 10; Rev 3:20-22?

There are many good people out in the world that have heard the Gospel preached, but yet reject it even though they show love to others. Are they going to heaven?

All will be accountable to God whether they have heard about Him or not because God has clearly revealed Himself in nature, Romans 1:20, and in the hearts of people, Ecclesiastes 3:11. It's only those who refuse to hear are they in whom God will reject.

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. 7 As they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame.

 

[john darling]

There are many good people out in the world that have heard the Gospel preached, but yet reject it even though they show love to others.

I'm suggesting that acceptance of the gospel is more than just claiming to have some association with Jesus. Jesus himself asked his own supposed followers, "Why do you call me Lord, but do not obey me"? He also says, "Many will say to me 'Lord, Lord' but only those who follow my teachings will be saved".

Jesus told us to love our neighbors. I doubt he will reject someone who loves his neighbor but does not say "Lord, Lord".

If you look at the parable of the wise and foolish builders at the end of the sermon on the mount from Mt 7 you'll see that both the wise and the foolish man heard the teachings of Jesus, but only the wise man acted on those teachings.

I believe Jesus is making it clear that in God's eyes he does not car what theological position we take. He cares about whether we respond to his spirit. Since God is the source of all love, it is impossible for anyone to practice love outside of response to God's spirit, whether they acknowledge it as God's spirit or not.

This means we need to be pretty careful about deciding who is saved and who isn't. Jesus said we'll be judged the same as we judge others, so if we judge that the love someone shows isn't enough just because he does not follow the correct theological formula we think he should follow, then perhaps God will judge that our love isn't good enough, either.

 

[john darling]

My question remains: Do you believe Scripture teaches that for those who don't hear about Jesus before they die, that their good works will be adequate to get them into heaven (God's kingdom)?

Hi Ozspen. Here's my explanation from earlier.

One of the most significant parts of this example is that the righteous didn't even realize they were helping God when they helped their neighbor. They asked, "when did we help you"? In other words, they were not performing these behaviors as a religious observance. They were just showing love, which is what God wants us to do, so he saved them.

 

[OzSpen]

Jesus told us to love our neighbors. I doubt he will reject someone who loves his neighbor but does not say "Lord, Lord".

You provided no biblical support for this kind of theology.

 

[OzSpen]

They were just showing love, which is what God wants us to do, so he saved them.

Really?

 

[john darling]

You provided no biblical support for this kind of theology.

No biblical support for God saving someone who loves his neighbor?

Consider your position.

 

[OzSpen]

No biblical support for God saving someone who loves his neighbor?

Consider your position.

That sounds like works' salvation to me.

The biblical position is:

​

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast (Eph 2:8-9 NIV).​

No amount of good works in loving a non-believer's neighbour will get the unregenerate into heaven. That's Bible!

2 Tim 1:9 (NIV) confirms this: 'He [God] has saved us and called us to a holy life – not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time'.

I've considered my position many times and it does not harmonise with unbelievers entering the kingdom of God through loving their neighbours or any other works' religion.

Titus 3:5 (NIV) promotes the same view of biblical Christianity for unredeemed sinners: 'he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit'.

Seems to me that you are the one who needs to rethink your position in light of this biblical emphasis.

Oz

 

[Who Me]

Hmm Jesus say 'I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No One comes to God the Father but by Me.'
Paul clarifies this to say we are saved by grace, the gift of God and not by good works.
James confuses the issue by saying 'I show my faith by my good works, show me your faith apart from your works.'

Even the OT saints are commended for their Faith and not their deeds in Hebrews 11.

So what of those who have never heard?
Well Paul has dealt with them in Romans 2:12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

Look at the requirements in Jesus's parabal of the sheep+goats. to feed, cloth visit, the sick in prison or help a stranger.
It is a parapharase of 'Love others as yourself' and in all honesty who does that.

The requirement to earn ones salvation is 100% perfection from the cradle to the grave.

 

[OzSpen]

The requirement to earn ones salvation is 100% perfection from the cradle to the grave.

WM,

Would you please help me to understand where that is taught in the Bible?

Oz

 

[TheGoldenThread]

Hello, there are a few things about teachings that I would like to understand. I have asked this question before but without an answer, which causes more confusion. As I understand it, if someone knows about Jesus Christ, then if they accept Jesus as their saviour they will enter Heaven. If they do not accept Jesus as their saviour, they will go to Hell. I have a lot of questions around that but the main one is:

If someone doesn't know about Christ, and has never heard of Christ, then where do they go when they die?

This brings up an example: Indigenous people who according to history have had the deepest connection with the Earth and nature, who by their teachings had a deep respect for our Earth and life itself..as far as I know they do not follow Christ. They were taught about Jesus in the most brutal and evil ways, which I've been told was not the work of Jesus but how could they be expected to go from their lives which were of deep connection to nature and themselves to following someone who they were taught about in brutal ways. Their lives became a version of hell because of invasion of their way of life. It makes absolutely no sense for them to go from a way of life that seems to have worked in deep relationship with nature to a way of life that in their experience caused unimaginable pain.

I really deeply struggle with this. I would appreciate an understanding of the basic question I wrote above and also the situation that I outlined below the question. Thank you kindly.

Luke 12:46-47, "47 That servant who knows his master’s will but does not get ready or follow his instructions will be beaten with many blows. But the one who unknowingly does things worthy of punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and from him who has been entrusted with much, even more will be demanded.…"

God is just. If someone didn't have an honest chance to get to know the truest version of God as revealed through His son Jesus, then they won't be condemned for what they did not know; but, if someone shows the truest version of Jesus, and THEN they reject Him... they leave the category of not knowing to the category of knowing; therefore, they will be accountable to God for this.

NOTE: I included the phrase 'truest version of God", because there are many counter-feits out their in the world. If people reject the false Christs, because they don't see the truth in them, then they won't be condemned; but if they find the real Christ and choose to turn their backs on Him; then they are condemned already.
In peace

 

[TheGoldenThread]

IMO

Hmm Jesus say 'I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No One comes to God the Father but by Me.'
Paul clarifies this to say we are saved by grace, the gift of God and not by good works.
James confuses the issue by saying 'I show my faith by my good works, show me your faith apart from your works.'

Even the OT saints are commended for their Faith and not their deeds in Hebrews 11.

So what of those who have never heard?
Well Paul has dealt with them in Romans 2:12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

Look at the requirements in Jesus's parabal of the sheep+goats. to feed, cloth visit, the sick in prison or help a stranger.
It is a parapharase of 'Love others as yourself' and in all honesty who does that.

The requirement to earn ones salvation is 100% perfection from the cradle to the grave.

IMO, this idea that it is either all or nothing puts things in a bias standpoint in relation to trying to obey Jesus.

It seems that anyone who teaches that we need to obey Jesus is wrong and are trying to "work their way to heaven" or " must do things 100% perfectly". Both aren't taught by Jesus, nor in the Bible. Obedience to Jesus is crucial for salvation, because it shows outwardly what we believe inwardly; they cannot be separated. I think the idea of not wanting to obey Jesus is just an excuse to not be accountable to God and His commands that He gave His son to give to the world, rather to justify our disobedience and actually BOAST about how we can disobey God and He won't bat an eye.

Many will be disappointed on judgment day... I pray I am not one of them!

 

[Who Me]

WM,

Would you please help me to understand where that is taught in the Bible?

Oz

To be honest it is derived from:-
Matt5:48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. &
romans2: 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

But this is imposible so it is pointless to try.

 

[TheGoldenThread]

But this is imposible so it is pointless to try.

This, is the root problem with the idea of saved by grace alone.

If people can see how willful disobedience to Jesus on the basis that we can't do it is derived of the devil, then a lot of other Bible truths will become clear.

In peace

 

[JLB]

As I understand it, if someone knows about Jesus Christ, then if they accept Jesus as their saviour they will enter Heaven. If they do not accept Jesus as their saviour, they will go to Hell. I have a lot of questions around that but the main one is:

When we believe the Gospel message, by the power of His grace, we are born again, in which our spirit is made alive, and indwelt by the Spirit of Christ.


We are born of God and have His nature within us, so that we no longer live our lives in rebellion toward God, but rather we live in harmony with the Spirit, doing the things that the Spirit desires rather than the sin that dwells in our flesh.


Paul says it this way -


There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
Romans 8:1


Again


I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness. Romans 6:19




JLB