If the pure in heart shall see god...

[YosefHayim]

Actually it goes something like this.

Luke 16
24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’
25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.
26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’


Cannot go there nor come back.

NDEs contradict scripture.

It's that simple.

.

I'm usually extremely skeptical. However I think something is possible. Paul said he knew a guy who went to the third heaven, put of the body or in the body he knew not.

As for your scripture posted, from my understanding that seperation was between only Abraham's bosom and the firey hell the rich man was in. Not the physical/spiritual.

My friend was deep in to hard drugs. He asked me about NDEs once. He said he nearly OD'd and he said he was in a really dark place and thought he was done. Dark NDEs I've heard were common among those not born again. Yet my mom saw a light in the hospital.

 

[Karl]

I see it as once a person is dead for good. Lazarus died once and then came back to life. I think that is why the Rich man asked Abraham if Lazarus could tell his brothers.

Wrong Lazarus beloved, the Lazarus that Jesus resurrected was the brother of Mary and Martha, the Lazarus in the Luke 16 story died and did not come back to life.

 

[Gary]

I see it as once a person is dead for good. Lazarus died once and then came back to life. I think that is why the Rich man asked Abraham if Lazarus could tell his brothers.

You're combining two different events into one.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Wrong Lazarus beloved, the Lazarus that Jesus resurrected was the brother of Mary and Martha, the Lazarus in the Luke 16 story died and did not come back to life.

Karl - why couldn't that have been "the Lazarus" brother of Mary and Martha?

 

[LovethroughDove]

Yet my mom saw a light in the hospital.

As soon as my aunt told my grandmother to "go to the light", my grandma shed one little tear and then left her body. I saw the energy leave (literally) from her body. I always wondered if she cried because the light was so beautiful, or she was torn about leaving us.

 

[Karl]

Karl - why couldn't that have been "the Lazarus" brother of Mary and Martha?

Because dear one, Lazarus, the brother of Mary and Martha lived in Bethany, which is close to Jerusalem in Judea, Jesus probably recounted the story of Luke 16 somewhere in the North as He was traveling to Jerusalem, ...after He told the Luke 16 story we read in Luke 17,

And it came to pass, as he went to Jerusalem, that he passed through the midst of Samaria and Galilee. Luke 17:11

He hadn't yet arrived in Bethany.

 

[Cturtle]

Face to face.

Hmmmmm what would be your definition of pure in heart? Does that mean totally sinless?

 

[YosefHayim]

Hmmmmm what would be your definition of pure in heart? Does that mean totally sinless?

I don't believe in sinless perfection. Is it possible we could be sanctified by the Holy Spirit that I suppose we would see some "Theophany". Like when Moses went in with God in the mountain and his face shined. And perhaps not just seeing, but also hearing God.

 

[Cturtle]

I'm with Gary, ...those that saw Jesus, was He disfigured like it says in Isaiah?

As many were astonished at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men: Isa 52:14

When we see Him Revelation says we will see Him as a Lamb that has just been slaughtered!

and I saw, and lo, in the midst of the throne, and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, a Lamb hath stood as it had been slain..., Rev 5:6

Personally I'm astonished at how many people say they have seen Jesus, but never comment on how just looking at Him caused them to turn their heads in repulsion, ...because He is, to this day, carrying the scars on His Body that paid for my Redemption.




Just a slight correction,

The voice of the Burning Bush, the great I Am, YWHW in the Old Testament is the Lord Jesus Christ of the New Testament.

Blessings

Question? If the disciples saw Jesus, not all marred up but in perfect condition, then why can't we see Him that way too? Is it possible for the verse in Revelation to be talking about at the moment of taking the scroll? And the reason why He looks marred is because He is the only one that can break the seals and open the scroll?

 

[Cturtle]

So then, you don't believe what Isaiah wrote?

I don't know if you have any scars, but I have a couple and they disfigure, now, the historian of the time shortly after Jesus was crucified wrote that after 20 lashes there wasn't any skin left of the back side of Jesus, so they turned Him around and whipped Him 19 more times on the front of his body, plus His beard was ripped off, ...I've already quoted Isaiah where he tells us He was so marred that He isn't recognized as a human, ...today He is covered with scar tissue, He is 100% human and Scripture tells us He is scared just like when we are injured, ...do you not believe that?

Care to tell us how people have visited Hell?

In my opinion the verse in Isaiah was talking about when He was on the cross. And i believe that when He arose He had the scars in His hands and feet and side, and possibly on His body under His clothes, but that He must have looked normal in His face because Mary mistook Him for the gardener in John.
It's funny until now i just assumed that when He arose He had a glorified body, probably due to the movies. But as i was typing i had a thought that maybe noone could see the scars because they were covered by His clothes? Some very interesting thoughts!

 

[Cturtle]

Actually it goes something like this.

Luke 16
24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’
25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.
26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’


Cannot go there nor come back.

NDEs contradict scripture.

It's that simple.

.

Interesting thoughts also.

 

[Gary]

why couldn't that have been "the Lazarus" brother of Mary and Martha?

Here's why I believe they are not the same person.

John 11
1 Now a certain man was sick, Lazarus of Bethany, the town of Mary and her sister Martha.
2 It was that Mary who anointed the Lord with fragrant oil and wiped His feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick.
3 Therefore the sisters sent to Him, saying, “Lord, behold, he whom You love is sick.”


Notice the end of verse three.


Luke 16
19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day.
20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate,
21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.



The Lazarus in Luke doesn't sound like the Lazarus that Jesus loved. He was covered with sores and begged for his meals. One would think if the sisters cared enough to see to his burial, they would have cared enough to feed him also.
The Lazarus in John appears to have people who cared for him while the one in Luke dies alone. The Lazarus in John is resurrected, the one in Luke is not.

Compare the 2 passages. The only thing they have in common is the name Lazarus.

.

 

[Karl]

Question? If the disciples saw Jesus, not all marred up but in perfect condition, then why can't we see Him that way too? Is it possible for the verse in Revelation to be talking about at the moment of taking the scroll? And the reason why He looks marred is because He is the only one that can break the seals and open the scroll?

Dear one, where does it say in the Word the disciples didn't see Him disfigured, ...why should we question the prophecy of Isaiah, is it not inspired too?

 

[Cturtle]

Dear one, where does it say in the Word the disciples didn't see Him disfigured, ...why should we question the prophecy of Isaiah, is it not inspired too?

The prophecy of Isaiah is very important and inspired by God! And after i wrote this i realized that it does not say that the disciples didn't see Him disfigured. And something that i had seen on the different movies. I believe that God put a thought in my mind that it was probably all covered by His clothes. For some reason i always thought that the Bible had said that Jesus had different or kind of like glorified clothes, which is probably something from the Christian movies also. You all have definitely given me stuff to think about.

 

[Karl]

The prophecy of Isaiah is very important and inspired by God! And after i wrote this i realized that it does not say that the disciples didn't see Him disfigured. And something that i had seen on the different movies. I believe that God put a thought in my mind that it was probably all covered by His clothes. For some reason i always thought that the Bible had said that Jesus had different or kind of like glorified clothes, which is probably something from the Christian movies also. You all have definitely given me stuff to think about.

Dear one the Jesus of the Gospels and Acts is before He was glorified, read Rev 1, ...close friend cousin John, who had leaned on His chest at the Passover meal, ...when he saw Jesus glorified he fell at His like dead.

The problem people have is they see Jesus as a man, yes He took on the form of a Man, but He is also God, the Creator of the Universe and He has asked us, "...is there any thing to hard for me to do?"

Personally I believe He does become what every one of us needs today, ...if we let Him, and in Eternity we will see Him in the different ways as it is written in the Word.

It is recorded He still has the holes in His hands and the hole in His side Jn 20:27, so that raises the question, why not the other scars, .......and, the holes didn't close up and heal? I have been punctured, as I'm sure you have, and they have all closed up and healed, ...why not His?

You see beloved, Paul says today, this side of Eternity, we see through a glass darkly, but when we are with Him, then we will know.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Here's why I believe they are not the same person.

John 11
1 Now a certain man was sick, Lazarus of Bethany, the town of Mary and her sister Martha.
2 It was that Mary who anointed the Lord with fragrant oil and wiped His feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick.
3 Therefore the sisters sent to Him, saying, “Lord, behold, he whom You love is sick.”


Notice the end of verse three.


Luke 16
19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day.
20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate,
21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.



The Lazarus in Luke doesn't sound like the Lazarus that Jesus loved. He was covered with sores and begged for his meals. One would think if the sisters cared enough to see to his burial, they would have cared enough to feed him also.
The Lazarus in John appears to have people who cared for him while the one in Luke dies alone. The Lazarus in John is resurrected, the one in Luke is not.

Compare the 2 passages. The only thing they have in common is the name Lazarus.

.

This is assumption that they aren't the same person.

We all know that Lazarus the brother was sick, cause he died. So, he could've had sores all over from his sickness. There are homeless people that have family, but for some reason are on the streets.

I believe Jesus was just giving more description of Lazarus at his death and while he was dead......before he raised him from the dead.

I could be wrong, but that is how I picture it.

 

[Cturtle]

Dear one the Jesus of the Gospels and Acts is before He was glorified, read Rev 1, ...close friend cousin John, who had leaned on His chest at the Passover meal, ...when he saw Jesus glorified he fell at His like dead.

The problem people have is they see Jesus as a man, yes He took on the form of a Man, but He is also God, the Creator of the Universe and He has asked us, "...is there any thing to hard for me to do?"

Personally I believe He does become what every one of us needs today, ...if we let Him, and in Eternity we will see Him in the different ways as it is written in the Word.

It is recorded He still has the holes in His hands and the hole in His side Jn 20:27, so that raises the question, why not the other scars, .......and, the holes didn't close up and heal? I have been punctured, as I'm sure you have, and they have all closed up and healed, ...why not His?

You see beloved, Paul says today, this side of Eternity, we see through a glass darkly, but when we are with Him, then we will know.

That brings up a good point, so after Jesus acended to the Father Is when He received a glorified body.
but the only reason why john fell was because he was afraid, at least that's what the last part of the verse says.

 

[Gary]

This is assumption that they aren't the same person.

I could be wrong, but that is how I picture it.

No biggie.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

I'm with Gary, ...those that saw Jesus, was He disfigured like it says in Isaiah?

As many were astonished at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men: Isa 52:14

When we see Him Revelation says we will see Him as a Lamb that has just been slaughtered!

and I saw, and lo, in the midst of the throne, and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, a Lamb hath stood as it had been slain..., Rev 5:6

Personally I'm astonished at how many people say they have seen Jesus, but never comment on how just looking at Him caused them to turn their heads in repulsion, ...because He is, to this day, carrying the scars on His Body that paid for my Redemption.




Just a slight correction,

The voice of the Burning Bush, the great I Am, YWHW in the Old Testament is the Lord Jesus Christ of the New Testament.

Blessings

Jesus was only that way untill the Father said enough.....Jesus stood up and defeated satan and his bunch and paraded them around through hell and then came back and stood before Marry.......REMEMBER HE SAID DONT TOUCH ME FOR I HAVE NOT YET ACCENDED TO MY FATHER...

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Actually it goes something like this.

Luke 16
24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’
25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.
26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’


Cannot go there nor come back.

NDEs contradict scripture.

It's that simple.

.

IS IT.... I am not saying I do or do not believe this NDEs stuff but I can say this....Your scripture is referring between heaven and hell....Not dying and seeing Jesus and coming back...... Dont fit together