"I'm Christian, unless you're gay"

[Pard]

Men can come to Christ late in life and find salvation, even if they've had contempt for Him all their lives. Christ did not wait for the murderer on the next cross to "walk the walk" before welcoming him into God's kingdom.

"Betwixt the saddle and the ground,
twas mercy I sought and mercy I found."

God is never done working on any of us, and we should not presume to judge others or stand between them and God. Any gay man or woman is welcome to worship God with me. I will never tell them that what they're doing is pleasing in God's sight, but I will never condemn them either. They will walk the walk when they're ready.

The scripture speaks of this. It clearly makes a distinction between those who claim Christ with words but live a life apart from Christ at heart and those that claim Christ and strive to live like him and seek him in their hearts. And that's all I gotta say about that.

"You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
“‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules.’â€

 

[Sparkey]

It should come as no surprise to hear a Christian confess, "I was involved in sexual sin (when I was young)." Can one sinner somehow think they are any different than another? Is it possible for me to pretend that God would show mercy to me but not to another because of the nature of their sin? Isn't this essentially the same thing as "carrying a false scale and measure"? Such an act is called (wait for it)...

"A false balance [is] abomination to the LORD: but a just weight [is] his delight." - (Pro 11:1 KJV)

If I were to put my thumb on my side of the scale to say I am somehow more worthy than those actively caught in the grip of sexual sin I have become an abomination and am not worthy.

"If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty." - (Jam 2:8-12 KJV)

We are commanded by God to be like Him, Holy, separate, and kept apart from all sin. We are told to speak and act as those who understand that He is no respecter of persons.

 

[Mike S]

The scripture speaks of this. It clearly makes a distinction between those who claim Christ with words but live a life apart from Christ at heart and those that claim Christ and strive to live like him and seek him in their hearts. And that's all I gotta say about that.

Life isn't over til it's over. No matter how a man lives, or how long he lives, he can be made right with God in an instant, even at the moment of death. God does not give up on sinners.

We're called to live life as Christ did, with humility, and service, and sacrifice. I will deal with sinners as advised by St. Francis, "Preach the Gospel always...use words if necessary."

 

[Christ_empowered]

As a "post-gay" man, I know the tension between the gay community and most Christians. I don't know what to think, honestly. On the one hand, be kind (of course) and show Christ. That's great. On the other hand, Christ warned us about Hell all throughout the NT. Even if you "turn them off"--"them" being any person or group of people involved in serious, ongoing sin--in the short-term, you just might "click" somewhere over the long haul.

Example: when I was both homosexual AND burned out (lovely combo, btw--other gays hated me for being so old looking at 21), I jokingly called a TV church prayer line. I thought I'd give them a hard time and ask them to pray that God send me a boyfriend. Right. Anyway, the dude on the other end was nice and explained the Christian position on Christianity. I just hung up. My "open minded" friends in the room laughed.

Fast forward a few years. I'm 27 now, "post-gay" (I like to think of moving past gay w/ God's help, not identifying myself as an "ex-gay"), and younger looking now than I was at 21, and I realize how terrible gay life is. God grabbed a hold of me. I realize now how homosexuality not only condemns you to Hell, it creates Hell on earth and destroys anything good about you. That's what a life of serious, ongoing sin does. Now, I look back to that conversation 6 years ago when I want to give up and turn back (not just to homosexuality, but to other sins as well), and I realize: that man was right. God was, is, and will continue to be right.

So, moral of my story: speaking the Truth in Love--which doesn't necessarily mean being soft, either (the guy at the prayerline was easy on me, but even if he'd been harsher it still would have stuck)--does everybody a world of good. The redeemed sinner (Christian), the unrepentant sinner, God; everybody wins. God's Word and God' Truth, spoken in love, can do some incredible things. His Word will not return void.

 

[Hitch]

Life isn't over til it's over. No matter how a man lives, or how long he lives, he can be made right with God in an instant, even at the moment of death. God does not give up on sinners.

We're called to live life as Christ did, with humility, and service, and sacrifice. I will deal with sinners as advised by St. Francis, "Preach the Gospel always...use words if necessary."

<sup id="en-KJV-27957" class="versenum">26</sup>For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
<sup id="en-KJV-27958" class="versenum">27</sup>And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
<sup id="en-KJV-27959" class="versenum">28</sup>And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

I dont know if this is completely contrary to your notion or not, but it certainly tempers its application.

 

[Hitch]

As a "post-gay" man, I know the tension between the gay community and most Christians. I don't know what to think, honestly. On the one hand, be kind (of course) and show Christ. That's great. On the other hand, Christ warned us about Hell all throughout the NT. Even if you "turn them off"--"them" being any person or group of people involved in serious, ongoing sin--in the short-term, you just might "click" somewhere over the long haul.

Example: when I was both homosexual AND burned out (lovely combo, btw--other gays hated me for being so old looking at 21), I jokingly called a TV church prayer line. I thought I'd give them a hard time and ask them to pray that God send me a boyfriend. Right. Anyway, the dude on the other end was nice and explained the Christian position on Christianity. I just hung up. My "open minded" friends in the room laughed.

Fast forward a few years. I'm 27 now, "post-gay" (I like to think of moving past gay w/ God's help, not identifying myself as an "ex-gay"), and younger looking now than I was at 21, and I realize how terrible gay life is. God grabbed a hold of me. I realize now how homosexuality not only condemns you to Hell, it creates Hell on earth and destroys anything good about you. That's what a life of serious, ongoing sin does. Now, I look back to that conversation 6 years ago when I want to give up and turn back (not just to homosexuality, but to other sins as well), and I realize: that man was right. God was, is, and will continue to be right.

So, moral of my story: speaking the Truth in Love--which doesn't necessarily mean being soft, either (the guy at the prayerline was easy on me, but even if he'd been harsher it still would have stuck)--does everybody a world of good. The redeemed sinner (Christian), the unrepentant sinner, God; everybody wins. God's Word and God' Truth, spoken in love, can do some incredible things. His Word will not return void.

Worth repeating.

 

[Pard]

I still fell you are missing my point, or maybe not? I don't care for the company of those who claim Jesus with the mouth and not with the heart in the same way that I don't care for the company of the heathen. Sure, I've got them as friends, but at the end of the day they are not the ones I turn to for the help and support that one expects out of a true friend. Now I'll come for them because that's how I am, I help most everyone, but I don't go to them.

And thank you empowered. It's important to remember that sometimes the gospel is a cold, harsh reality for the unsaved and we shouldn't be gentle with its use just because we fear them drawing away. It is how it is and that is how it was meant to be.

 

[reba]

Some folks might need the gospel in the form of a hug

Like Saul/Paul some folks might need the gospel in the form of a 2 by 4.

 

[Mike S]

I dont know if this is completely contrary to your notion or not, but it certainly tempers its application.

It's not contrary at all, and it doesn't temper the application of my faith.. I'm not talking about pretending sin isn't sin. I'm saying that no matter how vile a person has been, or for how long, God has not given up on him. Salvation is not just for the man who has been an innocent altar boy all his life who has walked the walk, but is also for the vile drug addict rapist who only finds Christ in prison, and for Saul who spent his early life persecuting Christ's followers, and for the thug on the cross next to Christ, the day his death long after any chance to "walk the walk".

You may want to talk to sinners about the Gospel, and good for you. But that sinner's salvation is between him and God, and you and I better "work out our own salvation with fear and trembling."

 

[Mike S]

Some folks might need the gospel in the form of a hug

Like Saul/Paul some folks might need the gospel in the form of a 2 by 4.

I won't argue that...but the 2 X 4 that hit Saul was not held by a hectoring evangelical Christian.

 

[jasoncran]

i repented at a phone call and told that it was wrong,i was told to read romans one. i did and i repented.

if that is hectoring then well i guess i should go back to that sin

 

[Pard]

The 2x4 reference from Reba was metaphorical. Some scripture comes as a gentle touch and other as a 2x4. That's all there is to it.

 

[Mike S]

i repented at a phone call and told that it was wrong,i was told to read romans one. i did and i repented.

if that is hectoring then well i guess i should go back to that sin

I was responding to a comment about Saul, who did not repent in response to a phone call.

I'm glad you repented, and whether or not you return to that sin is your own call...though it's not uncommon for "ex-gays."

 

[Mike S]

The 2x4 reference from Reba was metaphorical. Some scripture comes as a gentle touch and other as a 2x4. That's all there is to it.

And my response was to that metaphor. That's all there is to it.

 

[Pard]

So you are saying that gay people should be told that their sin will take them to hell by pagans? :

I'm confused, who else will tell the sinful that they are going to hell then? Gospel ain't a fluffy book about feeling good. The whole concept of American evangelism is in error. We are not looking for flies, but fish and you don't catch fish with sugar and good feelings, but with hooks and a reality check.

It ain't about being gay. I'd say the same thing to a gay guy as a guy with some other issue (ie away from Christ).

 

[Mike S]

So you are saying that gay people should be told that their sin will take them to hell by pagans? :

I'm confused, who else will tell the sinful that they are going to hell then? Gospel ain't a fluffy book about feeling good. The whole concept of American evangelism is in error. We are not looking for flies, but fish and you don't catch fish with sugar and good feelings, but with hooks and a reality check.

It ain't about being gay. I'd say the same thing to a gay guy as a guy with some other issue (ie away from Christ).

I've been on a lot volunteer missions to help people rebuild after natural disasters, and have seen the damage eager evangelicals cause by quoting their proof scriptures and lecturing people about how not to go to hell. Your Christian life should be your message. People are brought to Christ through seduction, not through horror stories of lakes of fire. The coercive message of "Sinners In The Hands Of An Angry God" is not the message of Christ.

 

[Hitch]

The works accomplished by Edwards and the like will far out last you and I.

 

[Mike S]

The works accomplished by Edwards and the like will far out last you and I.

Fire and brimstone messages do more damage than good. The Old Testament message of God as wrathful avenger smiting hither and yon, is not as consistent with Christ's message as the New Testament message of God as loving and welcoming father of the prodigal son. As Christians, we're called to follow the example of that father.

 

[Pard]

They are the same person...

 

[felix]

Do not think that you are somehow standing up for Scripture with your hateful words and that someone who disagrees with you isn't. :bigfrown

It is not Hitch that used hateful words but Scripture in multiple places and Paul in his letter to the saints in Rome uses it.

It is Scripture that says, they are fools (Rom 1:22)
It is Scripture that says, they are without excuse (Rom 1:20).
It is Scripture that says, they will never inherit kingdom of God (1Cor 6:9)
It is Scripture that says, they are deserving of death (Rom 1:32)
It is Scripture that says, vengeance of eternal fire is upon them (Jude 1:7)
It is Scripture that says, not to pray for people who do sins leading to death (1John 5:16)
It is Scripture that says, God abhors them (Lev 20:23)

So, gays are fools without excuse who will never inherit Kingdom of God but deserving death and vengeance of eternal file is upon them for whom I need not pray and God abhors them.

Anyone having His Spirit will never love such a person because, God abhors them. If we do not abhor who God abhors, then His Spirit is not within us.

Now be good enough to tell me exactly what of my posts you consider hateful words.

No you don't use hateful words.