In and out of Salvation - consequences of committing sins

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I believe Paul is the author of Hebrews.

Hebrews does bear some of the hallmarks of Paul's writings, but I wouldn't say it fits his style identically. It was not uncommon for multiple people to have had prayerful input with the construct of these advisories of fact, equal co-workers with Paul. I suspect Hebrews came from others or another, with some of Paul's understandings in "style" which are clearly present, in Hebrews 6:8 in particular, which is an expansion of Paul's expression in 2 Cor. 12:7.

Ultimately we take these writings not from these men, but from their inspiration of the Holy Spirit upon them, and that, verified by the entire construct of all the prior writings, which only the Holy Spirit can "really" illuminate and "tie together" for any believers. Because of the complexity of the whole volume of work.

1 Timothy 5:17
Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

 

[smaller]

Scripture says God is faithful and just to forgive our sin and clean us from all unrighteousness. Translated it means sin is of the devil, and members obeying the devil become his servant. (Rom 16:6)

About the most brilliant conclusion I've seen here in awhile. Congrats on seeing the obvious culprit.

 

[smaller]

I dont need to question Christ and ask for forgiveness again when I know he has forgiven. I believe if I ask forgiveness over and over I am puting him to shame and on the cross again as if im questioning his forgiveness towards me in lack of faith. Im not going to question my faith and put God to shame.

In my own valiant (in my own mind anyway) quest "against any sin that I had" it didn't take me long to A. clean up the outside, but B, since this didn't settle evil thoughts, I came to see that sin is an internal problem of "evil present" with me, just as Paul notes in Romans 7:17-21.

It is there, within, that we must seek to understand and find "our" division. But this comes at a great price, when we realize that "evil thoughts" are from a foreign "wicked evil" entity that is not us that operates in our "fleshly minds." Mark 4:15, and see Paul pinpointing this problem, this "agent" of sin that was not Paul, in his own flesh in 2 Cor. 12:7. If and when any believer is led to see this they WILL question every thought and source it! And they will PUT it down and away as NOT being "of themselves" as Gods children. And even more dastardly, is when we are "led" by that evil agent to deny this happens, which is the making of "instant hypocrite and liar" and thereby be pawned by that wicked/evil agent, thinking our minds immune or "alone." Lottsa traps for the mind and heart, set in the scriptures. Not only as warnings, but as exposures of our adversary and what he does via the avenues of temptations, which none are exempt from.

It is with this understanding that we find our dominion. Division and Dominion will not be found in denial, lies and hypocrisy. Not the whole package of what we are in our present life is just "man alone" in the flesh. We do have an adversary, "a tempter" if you prefer, in our own flesh. It is an internal reality, as many of us come to know.

And this I came to know after being "left fielded" by evil thoughts, seemingly at random. I had essentially no control over this randomness, that is, until I knew where it was coming from. And from there, these have to be 'wrestled' to the ground, captured, tied up, controlled. Because these operations ARE from an internal adversary.

 

[iLOVE]

'I believe', whether for you or for me, proves nothing when it comes to determining the author of the Book of Hebrews. What evidence is there to support such a view.

Oz

Many scholars believe he is the author of the book of Hebrews. The Holy Spirit was the divine author of Hebrews, and of all Scripture.
www.gotquestions.org - Who wrote the Book of Hebrews? Who was the author of Hebrews?

 

[Free]

Scripture says God is faithful and just to forgive our sin and clean us from all unrighteousness. Translated it means sin is of the devil, and members obeying the devil become his servant. (Rom 16:6)

Just how does "God is faithful and just to forgive our sin and clean us from all unrighteousness," translate as "sin is of the devil, and members obeying the devil become his servant"? And how does Rom. 16:6 support this idea: "6 Greet Mary, who has worked hard for you" (ESV)?

Unrighteousness just means right standing with God, His goodness to supply need and help is based on our faith in our right standing with Him.

I think you mean "righteousness," not "unrighteousness".

Jesus said you need computers, cloths, more computers food, seek the Kingdom of God first (way and will of doing things) and your right standing I bought and paid for with Him. (Mat 6)
Then everything else is added unto you. Everything.

What are you saying here?

 

[OzSpen]

Many scholars believe he is the author of the book of Hebrews. The Holy Spirit was the divine author of Hebrews, and of all Scripture.
www.gotquestions.org - Who wrote the Book of Hebrews? Who was the author of Hebrews?

You state 'many scholars believe he [Paul] is the author of the book of Hebrews' yet you quote not one of those those scholars.

Your link to Got Questions was not to the article on the authorship of Hebrews. Here it is: 'Who wrote the Book of Hebrews?'

Who was the human author of the Book of Hebrews? The honest answer is that it is anonymous. We do not know the author. He is not stated in the text of that Book.

Oz

 

[iLOVE]

Your link to Got Questions was not to the article on the authorship of Hebrews. Here it is: 'Who wrote the Book of Hebrews?'

Thank you.

 

[ezrider]

I dont need to question Christ and ask for forgiveness again when I know he has forgiven. I believe if I ask forgiveness over and over I am puting him to shame and on the cross again as if im questioning his forgiveness towards me in lack of faith. Im not going to question my faith and put God to shame.

I am in agreement with your statement.

Please provide biblical evidence to support your claim. Your statement here is nothing more than your personal assertion.

I am sure kiwidan can provide the scripture, but I'll provide it for you.

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

 

[Corn Pop]

Jesus said to forgive seventy times seven times if your brother sins against you, or what the scripture says correct me if im wrong I dont have it on me, that has nothing to do with asking for forgiveness, just to forgive. Someone does not need to ask forgiveness for you to forgive them. Forgive as you have been firgiven.

I think the only thing was the prayer forgive us our debts, but I dont think its repetitive as he just said this is how you should pray as an example.

And whats the other scriptures say to pray in thanks giving and stuff.

 

[Free]

I am sure kiwidan can provide the scripture, but I'll provide it for you.

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

This does not support kiwidan's point as this is talking about something different. This passage has nothing to do with asking God for forgiveness when we've sinned, which is biblical (1 John 1:8-10), rather this is talking about those who "fall away," as the text plainly states.

 

[Free]

Jesus said to forgive seventy times seven times if your brother sins against you, or what the scripture says correct me if im wrong I dont have it on me, that has nothing to do with asking for forgiveness, just to forgive.

I think the only thing was the prayer forgive us our debts, but I dont think its repetitive as he just said this is how you should pray as an example.

And whats the other scriptures say to pray in thanks giving and stuff.

1 John 1:8-10 proves you wrong:

8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us. (ESV)

And, yes, the Lord's Prayer also shows us that we are to ask for forgiveness. To say that we don't need to ask for forgiveness is simply unbiblical.

 

[Corn Pop]

1 John 1:8-10 proves you wrong:

8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us. (ESV)

And, yes, the Lord's Prayer also shows us that we are to ask for forgiveness. To say that we don't need to ask for forgiveness is simply unbiblical.

No it doesnt.Confessing a sin and asking forgiveness are two totally different situations. Whem did the word confess mean ask for forgiveness?

 

[ezrider]

This does not support kiwidan's point as this is talking about something different. This passage has nothing to do with asking God for forgiveness when we've sinned, which is biblical (1 John 1:8-10), rather this is talking about those who "fall away," as the text plainly states.

Maybe if your reading comprehension were just a bit better, then you might realize that in the context of this scripture, those who "fall away" do so by renewing themselves to repentance, as the text clearly states.

Hebrews 6:1-6
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit.
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

I dont need to question Christ and ask for forgiveness again when I know he has forgiven. I believe if I ask forgiveness over and over I am puting him to shame and on the cross again as if im questioning his forgiveness towards me in lack of faith. Im not going to question my faith and put God to shame.

 

[Corn Pop]

If I acknowlesge I sinned against you and appologise, thats confessing a sin. If I ask for forgiveness thats a different situation, and someone does not need to ask for forgiveness for someone to forgive them just like someone does not need to ask someone to pray for them, just like Jesus, Paul, and Steven did.

You can forgive and pray for another pwrson without them asking for it. But I do believe in original once asking God for forgiveness, then its done, im forgiven a million times after that, I just acknowledge, confess, and appologise.

 

[OzSpen]

No it doesnt.Confessing a sin and asking forgiveness are two totally different situations. Whem did the word confess mean ask for forgiveness?

Try asking for forgiveness without mentioning the sin you committed (and need to confess).

 

[OzSpen]

If I acknowlesge I sinned against you and appologise, thats confessing a sin. If I ask for forgiveness thats a different situation, and someone does not need to ask for forgiveness for someone to forgive them just like someone does not need to ask someone to pray for them, just like Jesus, Paul, and Steven did.

You can forgive and pray for another pwrson without them asking for it. But I do believe in original once asking God for forgiveness, then its done, im forgiven a million times after that, I just acknowledge, confess, and appologise.

I suggest you seek to understand the differences among making an apology, confessing sin, and seeking forgiveness.

 

[OzSpen]

I am in agreement with your statement.

I am sure kiwidan can provide the scripture, but I'll provide it for you.

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

ezrider,

That is not what kiwidan was referring to, in my understanding. I suggest that you read, 'Do Christians have to keep asking for forgiveness for their sins?' to obtain a biblical understanding of the need for Christians who are saved to continue seeking God's forgiveness when they sin.

Oz

 

[Corn Pop]

Try asking for forgiveness without mentioning the sin you committed (and need to confess).

I dont need to ask forgiveness as I know me and The Most High God are tight, and he forgives me no matter what I do, thats his promise not mine. I dont need keep asking forgiveness and put Jesus on the cross over and over again putting him to shame, so I dont need to ask The Most High God to sacrifice Jesus again for me. Im forgiven past, present, and future, and I will not question Gods promise, and Christ, but if I do sin against God or another person as im a sinner saved by Gods grace and mercy, I may ackowledge my wrong, confess and appologise, but im not asking for forgiveness, as God is not a liar so I know I am forgiven as a sinner saved by his grace through Jesus the Christ.

 

[OzSpen]

I dont need to ask forgiveness as I know me and The Most High God are tight, and he forgives me no matter what I do, I dont need keep asking forgiveness and put Jesus on the cross over and over again putting him to shame, so I dont need to ask The Most High God to sacrifice Jesus again for me. Im forgiven past, present, and future, and I will not question Gods promise, and Christ, but if I do get mislead and sin against God or another person I may ackowledge my wrong, confess and appologise, but im not asking for forgiveness, as God is not a liar so I know I am forgiven as a sinner saved by his grace through Jesus the Christ.

You are confusing positional forgiveness with relational forgiveness.

You are missing the biblical teaching of Eph 4:32 (NLT): 'Instead, be kind to each other, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God through Christ has forgiven you'.

You do need to keep asking people for forgiveness if you sin against them. That's Bible.

Seems to me that you have missed a key part of the the Christian life that Jesus addressed in Matt 6:12 (NLT): 'and forgive us our sins, as we have forgiven those who sin against us'.

We need to forgive those who sin against us - after we become Christians. That's Bible.

Oz

 

[Corn Pop]

You are confusing positional forgiveness with relational forgiveness.

You are missing the biblical teaching of Eph 4:32 (NLT): 'Instead, be kind to each other, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God through Christ has forgiven you'.

You do need to keep asking people for forgiveness if you sin against them. That's Bible.

Seems to me that you have missed a key part of the the Christian life that Jesus addressed in Matt 6:12 (NLT): 'and forgive us our sins, as we have forgiven those who sin against us'.

We need to forgive those who sin against us - after we become Christians. That's Bible.

Oz

If I sinned against you and confessed that sin and appologised, would you forgive me?, or would you only forgive me if I asked for forgiveness?

If you seen me drowning would you pray and ask God if its his will to maybe help in the situation, maybe even move a mountain yourself, or would you wait for me to say ' Yo Brother can you help me im a bit screwed over here'?