In and out of Salvation - consequences of committing sins

[OzSpen]

If I sinned against you and confessed that sin and appologised, would you forgive me?, or would you only forgive me if I asked for forgiveness?

Of course I would forgive you. That's my biblical responsibility, as it is yours to seek forgiveness for sinning against me.

If you seen me drowning would you pray and ask God if its his will to maybe help in the situation, maybe even move a mountain yourself, or would you wait for me to say ' Yo Brother can you help me im a bit screwed over here'?

This is an irrelevant point to the issue of forgiveness I'm discussing with you regarding the sins you commit (after you become a Christian) against others.

Why don't you go back to #40 and see the points I raised at #39 that you did not address in your response at #40. Do you know what it is called when you don't address the content of what a person raises?

Oz

 

[Corn Pop]

Of course I would forgive you. That's my biblical responsibility, as it is yours to seek forgiveness for sinning against me.


This is an irrelevant point to the issue of forgiveness I'm discussing with you regarding the sins you commit (after you become a Christian) against others.

Why don't you go back to #40 and see the points I raised at #39 that you did not address in your response at #40. Do you know what it is called when you don't address the content of what a person raises?

Oz

I could seek forgiveness but that is pointless as I have no authority over your free choice to forgive me or not.

Why beg, you either forgive me or you dont, but I confessed and repented my wrong so I have done the most I can. I cant make you forgive me, but as a brother you forgive me as you have been forgiven, as thats the teaching of Christ

 

[OzSpen]

I could seek forgiveness but that is pointless as I have no authority over your free choice to forgive me or not.

Why beg, you either forgive me or you dont, but I confessed and repented my wrong so I have done the most I can. I cant make you forgive me, but as a brother you forgive me as you have been forgiven, as thats the teaching of Christ

When did you confess and repent of your wrong?

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

To kiwidan and OzSpen. Both of you are looking at the point of forgiveness from another person, from someone you sin against. The need to confess is agreed on, to apologize I'm sure you agree on, but one aspect is that is neglected is to make right with someone. Forgiveness can be hard if it's something worth forgiving and not just shrug off. For many things just a little communication is all that is needed. Saying "dude look what you did,". And the other person replying, "sorry man, I didn't know. I won't do it again." But there are other things that are harder to let go of and need to at least be attempted to rectify outside of the grounds of not doing it again.

Sometimes an apology just isn't going to cut it and it's a greater burden to just expect forgiveness from someone you've harmed or sinned against. To show love for them also usually means to try and make something right. Payment for what was lost, damaged, broken, or stolen. Or even work of that payment some other way through a service for the person. Do what is fair, and if you feel the motivation and the ability to do so do more then what is fair. But if it's possible don't do less. Some sins you can't make right and a person must really strive to be a better man. Murder comes to mind as a sin that doesn't have an ability to rectify, but the person who has sinned should still try to anyways.

 

[ezrider]

You do need to keep asking people for forgiveness if you sin against them. That's Bible.

We need to forgive those who sin against us - after we become Christians. That's Bible.

Of course I would forgive you. That's my biblical responsibility, as it is yours to seek forgiveness for sinning against me.

It almost appears to me as though you see the act of forgiveness as a work that you must perform according to the Bible, making it works of the law. But when you find that forgiveness and mercy become part of your nature, when forgiveness comes without the requirement of repentance first, then you might begin to understand Grace.

 

[Wrg1405]

Hopefully I can express what I want to say.

As for my relationship with God as a believer I don't think I have to confess my sins to God in order to be forgiven.
As a beleiver I have positional/judicial forgiveness. When Jesus died on the cross and said "it is finished" the wrath of God against sin was satisfied and the penalty for my sin was paid, that of unbelief and the out workings of my flesh.

'If we confess our sins our sins he is faithful and just to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness'

Let's put aside the thoughts that 1John 1 was written to agnostic's as is the thoughts of scholars and also some bible commentaries.

I do have an issue within my own mind concerning sin. Jesus himself said that he must go so that the Holy Spirit must come to convict the works of it sin and that sin is unbelief in him. Yet we do find that we define sin as the works of the flesh and don't get me wrong I'm not saying that works of the flesh are something that needs to be ignored.

So I have placed my faith in Jesus and my sin of unbelief has been forgiven. So now I have been forgiven and before God I have judicial forgiveness and he will remember my sins no more and he as placed his law within my heart.

The word confess as I understand it means 'to agree with or declare not to deny'

So in my own mind I need to confess what I have done wrong before God, not to be forgiven. For me if I don't confess there is a barrier, caused by guilt. If I don't confess then I find it hard to come before God. To me to confess is to agree with God as a result of the Holy Spirit reminding me that the law of God that he has inscribed on my heart I have transgressed. To confess is to take ownership of what I have done wrong, fess it up, say sorry and repent(say I don't want this in my life and want to change) and thank him that I am forgiven on account of Christ. So please God help me, I need you.

So to me confession is to relational. I could be wrong and I'm sure if I am you will let me know but it's a foot washing. Dirty on the outside but clean on the inside.

Concerning personal relationships with non believers and beleivers I will fess up, say I'm sorry. Listen to what I did and if it is right repent (change what I have done) but ultimately its up to them to forgive. Us humans do not have the capacity as God has to forgive and remember no more. So I apologise and change yet they do not forgive there is nothing more that I can do other than pray to God and ask him to release them. Just as he has done with us when Jesus died on the the cross for this pitiful sinner.

My thoughts

 

[Free]

Maybe if your reading comprehension were just a bit better, then you might realize that in the context of this scripture, those who "fall away" do so by renewing themselves to repentance, as the text clearly states.

Hebrews 6:1-6
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit.
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Ignoring your unChristlike condescending attitude, I will once again point out that this does not address the point that was being made, namely, that Christians don't need to ask for forgiveness for their sins; it has nothing to do with those who fall away from the faith.

 

[Free]

No it doesnt.Confessing a sin and asking forgiveness are two totally different situations. Whem did the word confess mean ask for forgiveness?

They are part of the very same situation. Notice that if we confess our sins, then God will forgive us. The whole point of confessing, whether it is to a person or to God, is to receive forgiveness. There is no forgiveness without confession. The implication then is that to confess is to seek forgiveness. And that is what John says Christians are to do.

 

[Wrg1405]

They are part of the very same situation. Notice that if we confess our sins, then God will forgive us. The whole point of confessing, whether it is to a person or to God, is to receive forgiveness. There is no forgiveness without confession. The implication then is that to confess is to seek forgiveness. And that is what John says Christians are to do.

Can I ask a question based on your quote?

Let's say before I go to bed tonight and I sin (whatever you define sin to be). I don't confess said sin and I die in the night, or I sin tomorrow before I go to work and die in a car crash, I commit a sin of omission and don't know I have sinned and die.

What then? I die and the next thing I know I'm standing before God, what then?

 

[Free]

Can I ask a question based on your quote?

Let's say before I go to bed tonight and I sin (whatever you define sin to be). I don't confess said sin and I die in the night, or I sin tomorrow before I go to work and die in a car crash, I commit a sin of omission and don't know I have sinned and die.

What then? I die and the next thing I know I'm standing before God, what then?

Depends on whether or not you're a Christian. The Bible doesn't directly address such a scenario but I suspect that a Christian may suffer some loss of reward. We don't really know.

 

[Wrg1405]

Depends on whether or not you're a Christian. The Bible doesn't directly address such a scenario but I suspect that a Christian may suffer some loss of reward. We don't really know.

Ok the person is a Christian, confessed with their mouth that Jesus is Lord, and walk in thier confession. They die with unconfessed sin.

 

[Free]

Ok the person is a Christian, confessed with their mouth that Jesus is Lord, and walk in thier confession. They die with unconfessed sin.

And...?

 

[ezrider]

Ignoring your unChristlike condescending attitude,

See, now you have went and offended me: Should I expect an apology from you? Will you seek my forgiveness for your offense against me? Should I hold a grudge against you until you repent unto me? Does your apology require the blood of bulls, or the blood of a lamb?

 

[Wrg1405]

And...?

That's what I'm asking you

 

[Free]

That's what I'm asking you

That was answered in the post you quoted.

 

[Wrg1405]

That was answered in the post you quoted.

Ok maybe I'm missing the boat. How did I answer that I my previous quote?

 

[Free]

Ok maybe I'm missing the boat. How did I answer that I my previous quote?

Depends on whether or not you're a Christian. The Bible doesn't directly address such a scenario but I suspect that a Christian may suffer some loss of reward. We don't really know.

 

[OzSpen]

To kiwidan and OzSpen. Both of you are looking at the point of forgiveness from another person, from someone you sin against. The need to confess is agreed on, to apologize I'm sure you agree on, but one aspect is that is neglected is to make right with someone. Forgiveness can be hard if it's something worth forgiving and not just shrug off. For many things just a little communication is all that is needed. Saying "dude look what you did,". And the other person replying, "sorry man, I didn't know. I won't do it again." But there are other things that are harder to let go of and need to at least be attempted to rectify outside of the grounds of not doing it again.

Sometimes an apology just isn't going to cut it and it's a greater burden to just expect forgiveness from someone you've harmed or sinned against. To show love for them also usually means to try and make something right. Payment for what was lost, damaged, broken, or stolen. Or even work of that payment some other way through a service for the person. Do what is fair, and if you feel the motivation and the ability to do so do more then what is fair. But if it's possible don't do less. Some sins you can't make right and a person must really strive to be a better man. Murder comes to mind as a sin that doesn't have an ability to rectify, but the person who has sinned should still try to anyways.

Where does the Scripture say we need to apologise to someone we have sinned against? My understanding is that the biblical requirement is to seek forgiveness of the person against whom we have sinned (e.g. Matt 6:12 NLT; Col 3:13 NLT; Eph 4:32 NLT).

I agree with what you have stated in the second paragraph. Seeking forgiveness of the person and offering restitution are necessary Christian responsibilities.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

It almost appears to me as though you see the act of forgiveness as a work that you must perform according to the Bible, making it works of the law. But when you find that forgiveness and mercy become part of your nature, when forgiveness comes without the requirement of repentance first, then you might begin to understand Grace.

No, it's a responsibility of grace and a requirement of godly living.

 

[Corn Pop]

They are part of the very same situation. Notice that if we confess our sins, then God will forgive us. The whole point of confessing, whether it is to a person or to God, is to receive forgiveness. There is no forgiveness without confession. The implication then is that to confess is to seek forgiveness. And that is what John says Christians are to do.

I dont think someone needs to confess to be forgiven. Do you think Steven forgave his persecutors without them asking for forgiveness?. If he didnt forgive them he would not have prayed for them asking forgiveness. I think they were forgiven without even knowing it or repenting/confessing.