[_ Old Earth _] In schools

[SyntaxVorlon]

Yes quite the contrary, the bible, especially the old testament, is very proactive in witnessing to other cultures, usually with sharp rocks or metal.

Blue, you really ought to take your fingers out of your ears every once in a while. You cannot speak on matters of science, be it biology or cosmology, because you don't understand understand the fundamental concepts behind them. You don't seem to want to learn them either, you are what we debators call a wall of ignorance. If you had something to say, I would listen, however you have yet to say ANYTHING AT ALL.

 

[Barbarian]

blueeyeliner, it's time to take a deep breath and spend some time thinking about all of this. You should know that your opinion on creation and evolution have nothing to do with your salvation.

Some (is it years now?) Blue Lightning and I got crossways on another board over this subject. And we went after each other's ideas pretty hard.

But because we went after ideas and not people personally, we eventually found that we liked and respected each other, even though we disagree on most everything. He's a fine person, and I trust and admire him.

You can be like that. It's not compromising on what you believe. Try it. You'll be happier. And your relationship with Him might get even better than it is.

Worth a try, isn't it?

 

[Guest]

:B-fly: Did I say that you are not a worth while person or that you can't be nice to anyone?
I believe you mis-understand me. I am debating what you say you believe in,not you actually. None of us truly understand all of our own motives all the time. Sometimes we need to test what our motives really are. That does not mean that people in general cannot be good people.
satan sneaks in and he will try to take you much further than you ever wanted to go.
We have an enemy and we need to remember that.
I don't think that I dislike you.
I don't know bluelightning at this time.
It's great that you are friends and see past your differences.
The war is not between flesh and blood,it's between God and all the unseen powers in high places,ect.... it's not really between the people who don't agree with one another.
You seem like a nice person most of the time.

 

[Barbarian]

This "war" is not between light and darkness, except in the sense of those who know about the way life works and those who do not.

 

[Guest]

This "war" is not between light and darkness, except in the sense of those who know about the way life works and those who do not.

:angel: Well,I guess I'm like Job was,content to be satisfied with the fact that there are some things just too wonderful for me to know.
The big bang makes people want to bang their heads trying to force missing pieces with so many gaps to fit. This is more likely the reason it's called the big bang. Evolution may be in the churches of today,but I know what is going to happen with it,it's going to be part of the one world religion that is coming called " Inter-faithism" where everyone must tolerate everyone else's faith and religious views.
It's kind of odd how the evolutionists who don't believe in God has helped some of the christians believe in evolution but not in atheisism. Soon there won't be any atheists,though the one world global religion will accept evolution.
The only christians who won't be accepted will be those like me who say Jesus Christ is the only way to God,and the only way to salvation.
With religious tolerance and trying to get rid of crime,inter-faithism is just mans way of trying to save man.
:B-fly: I'm not going to be part of the in crowd,I won't be popular,and I will be hated for my views if I am still here,but thats what is going to happen.
To the world I'll appear as a "hater",or one who cannot tolerate the views of others. That won't be the truth,but thats what the world will claim about me and the few that are like me. Those who say Jesus is the "only" way will be in trouble. I'm not a terrorist,and I don't hate the views of others,I just want people to prepare for the huge road ahead and go in knowing more about it.
The apostasy is here,right now,today. No joke.

 

[Barbarian]

Well,I guess I'm like Job was,content to be satisfied with the fact that there are some things just too wonderful for me to know.

God was telling Job that he would never fully comprehend God and creation. It wasn't a license to ignorance. "Know the truth and the truth will set you free." That's God, too.

The big bang makes people want to bang their heads trying to force missing pieces with so many gaps to fit.

The big bang isn't about evolution. However, the predictions of the Big Bang have been repeately confirmed by actual observation, so there aren't many people who doubt it. Christians shouldn't be offended, since we know that the first thing in God's universe was light. And that's true in the Big Bang, as well.

This is more likely the reason it's called the big bang.

Actually, it was meant to be a demeaning title, by a critic, but it ended up being the usual slang for the theory.

Evolution may be in the churches of today,but I know what is going to happen with it,it's going to be part of the one world religion that is coming called " Inter-faithism" where everyone must tolerate everyone else's faith and religious views.

I tolerate, even respect the religious views of others. That's what God wants. I just don't accept them as true, when they are not. But even if someone is in error, and still believes in Him, they are Christians, and our brothers in Christ thereby.

It's kind of odd how the evolutionists who don't believe in God has helped some of the christians believe in evolution but not in atheisism.

Evolutionary theory was discovered by Christians, after all. So it's actually the reverse. Atheists learned of evolution from Christians.

Soon there won't be any atheists,though the one world global religion will accept evolution.

Doesn't seem very likely to me.

The only christians who won't be accepted will be those like me who say Jesus Christ is the only way to God,and the only way to salvation.

Well, there's a lot of us like that.

With religious tolerance and trying to get rid of crime,inter-faithism is just mans way of trying to save man.

God can save anyone, even someone who never heard of Jesus, or who has been taught to hate and fear Christianity. And He does.

Here's a story a minister from Korea told me:
A young man, living in North Korea, where it's against the law to even mention Jesus, had been aware for some time that there was something missing in his life. One day, alone in a field, God touched him. Suspecting that perhaps it was one of the traditional Korean deities, he fell to his knees and gave himself up to this being.

Later, in desperation due to famine, he escaped to the South, where he realized Who it was that touched him. He joined a Christian church.

Was he saved when God touched his heart and he gave himself up, or was he saved when he joined that church?

I'm not going to be part of the in crowd,I won't be popular,and I will be hated for my views if I am still here,but thats what is going to happen.

In America, at least, you're still in the majority.

 

[Guest]

:o Not true. The big bang has far from proven itself to be true,and many people who know science know that.
You need to tell us who you hear this news from,because it is not the truth.
I believe tolerance for people in general is good,even if they are worldly,but what it is going to come down to is just not as simple as that,if it were,the people who say Jesus is the only way to salvation won't be killed. We cannot denie that if we are asked. All you have to say is you believe Jesus is the only way to God and you'll be in alot of trouble one day. It may appear that most people today believe Jesus is the only way to salvation,but it won't be this way for much longer because there will be a great falling away of the true faith.
My rights won't be protected when these things happen if I'm still here.
Christians long ago were killed because they would not denie Christ. In what way were they told they had to denie Christ? It wasn't that they could not believe in Christ,they just were not allowed to say Christ was the only way to God,or that Jesus Christ is the only way to God.
One day people will have to admit what they believe to the world leaders who control everything.It's not that we won't have tolerance for others,it's that we will be accused of not having tolerance because of how we believe.
We do have tolerance if we are true christians because we know God saves the lost not us,but we also should not be ashamed to tell others about Jesus Christ.
Do you know that they already want to make it a hate crime if you tell someone about Jesus Christ? There are many,many,many religious beliefs out there,and many of them include Christ Jesus,but many of them don't accept the fact that he's the only way to get to God.
Those of us who do won't be very popular in the the future.
Do you not see the trend thats starting now? Perhaps not. I'm not sure how many people are aware of it yet,but things are changing,and not in the favor of those the world calls " Jesus Freaks",or those who claim Jesus as the only way.
At least however,the world is seeing a greater need for God now more than ever. Th reason I am saying there won't be any atheists is not to be unkind to atheists,it's because of the things like "Jihad" the so called holy war,and the views today on religious freedom and religious tolerance,ect....
The biggest battles seem to be related to God and religious beliefs and religious views. I wasn't aware that christians started the idea of evolution at all. I didn't think Darwin was a christian again until shortly before he died,and the others I didn't know had any christian back ground at all. Darwin did,but then it appeared that he left it,then before he died he may have recanted,and turned back to God.
I believe that the Bible tells us that most will believe in God,the problem will be related to what they believe about God and who the world says he is,ect..... I don't believe the world will ever be totally godless.
The one world global religion is coming because they are already talking about joining all religions and faiths together and it's called inter-faithism.
It strongly appears that the world will claim faith in God,but denie the power of God. They won't take the bible litrally the way God wants them too,and some probably won't accept the bible at all claiming it's been too messed with or tampered with because they don't understand the bible,or they find too many places in the bible that appear to contradict itself,so they don't understand. The bible does seem to contradict itself until you dig deeper and study harder.
Anyway,there will be the inter-faith global church preaching tolerance and religious freedom,ect.....
They believe that man can save man while still claiming faith in God,or a god,ect.....
Those who do understand the bible and who will be here during this time will know that the one world religion is the false church going around pretending she's the true church,but she not,she's none other than the "Mother Harlot joined back up with her pagan daughters". Anyone who won't pledge their loyalty to this system promoting this global church will be killed.
man believes in man,and man believes that man can solve all his or her own problems,but it's not that way at all. Man kind cannot survive without God,and if God didn't step in during the last days,all mankind would destroy itself.
If you can believe the Titanic existed,why can't you believe Noah's ark existed?
Just because you can see pictures of one and not the other?
I just want people to know what is happening,it's up to them what they take from it. I just want to help someone in this world. I really do not want to offend you with how I believe,but I believe that every soul out there in this world is precious to God,and that we must fight the good fight. Not Jihad,or in extremes when people get killed ect.....

 

[Barbarian]

Not true. The big bang has far from proven itself to be true,and many people who know science know that.

No scientific theory is "proven." Proof is not part of science. Science just gathers evidence, and goes with whatever the evidence indicates. It works very well, indeed.

You need to tell us who you hear this news from,because it is not the truth.

I believe tolerance for people in general is good,even if they are worldly,but what it is going to come down to is just not as simple as that,if it were,the people who say Jesus is the only way to salvation won't be killed. We cannot denie that if we are asked. All you have to say is you believe Jesus is the only way to God and you'll be in alot of trouble one day.[/quote

And we can make it better by being intolerant ourselves? How?

It may appear that most people today believe Jesus is the only way to salvation,but it won't be this way for much longer because there will be a great falling away of the true faith.

How much longer do you think it will be? A year? Five? Ten?

My rights won't be protected when these things happen if I'm still here.
Christians long ago were killed because they would not denie Christ. In what way were they told they had to denie Christ? It wasn't that they could not believe in Christ,they just were not allowed to say Christ was the only way to God,or that Jesus Christ is the only way to God.

Actually, they could. They were killed because they wouldn't also worship the emperor, which was considered treasonable. The Romans didn't care what else they worshipped, as long as they did their "civic duty." Of course, a true Christian couldn't do that.

Do you know that they already want to make it a hate crime if you tell someone about Jesus Christ?

Who are "they?"

I wasn't aware that christians started the idea of evolution at all. I didn't think Darwin was a christian again until shortly before he died,and the others I didn't know had any christian back ground at all.

Both Darwin and Wallace (who co-discovered natural selection) were Christians when they made the discovery.

If you can believe the Titanic existed,why can't you believe Noah's ark existed?

Possibly, it did. But the story in the Bible is clearly an allegory.

 

[ThinkerMan]

Anyway,there will be the inter-faith global church preaching tolerance and religious freedom,ect.....

Preaching tolerance and religious freedom! Oh the humanity! That is horrible!

Good thing we have places like the Middle East where that kind of malarky doesn't fly!

Kinda makes you wish for the good ol' days of the Inquisition, doesn't it? No tolerance or freedom there! Ah, sweet nostalgia!

*****OK, end of sarcasm*****

 

[Barbarian]

I can remember some "Christian" ayatollah screaming to his follower:

"Intolerance is Good!"

Yeah. God save us from those who would step in and execute vengence for Him.

 

[mh13]

Quote:
If you can believe the Titanic existed,why can't you believe Noah's ark existed?


[quote:6c37c]Possibly, it did. But the story in the Bible is clearly an allegory.

[/quote:6c37c]

Riiiiiiite...Sure...
There is absolutely, positively nothing in the text that would even hint that the flood was an allegory. The only reason you say that is because you are convinced that evolution is true.

2 Peter 3:3-6 (KJV)
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, [4] And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. [5] For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: [6] :Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished

The apostle Peter sure didn't believe that the flood was an allegory or even a local flood. But then he hadn't been enlightened by the truth of evolution yet. That wouldn't come till 1800 years later...

Both Darwin and Wallace (who co-discovered natural selection) were Christians when they made the discovery.

To say that Charles Darwin was a Christian is nothing short of blasphemy. Just because someone professes Christ doesn't really mean a whole lot in many cases. Look at the fruit. Darwin has lead countless numbers of people away from the faith and into eternal damnation because of his godless theory. One example is the eagle scout atheist who made news a while back:

In an Associated Press article published by the Seattle Post-Intelligencer on November 5, 2002, Lambert said that he became an atheist in ninth grade, “when he concluded that science had disproved the accounts of creation given in the Bible.â€Â
read the whole article -- http://www.contenderministries.org/comm ... ambert.php

 

[ThinkerMan]

There is absolutely, positively nothing in the text that would even hint that the flood was an allegory. The only reason you say that is because you are convinced that evolution is true.

Why would anyone writing a religious book include anything other than absolute certainty that everything they say is true and sacred? Sure, Moses (authorship unlikely) doesn't say it's anything but true. So did Joseph Smith, Nostradomus, Muhammed. So did Budda and the Sikh Gurus and the Dali Lamas and every other religous spark plug.

But you don't believe any of them, do you?

As far as I know Bokonon is the only one that says his religous writings has lies!

That is a ridiculous argument to for the validity of the flood.

Additionaly, not believing in the flood doesn't make one a evolutionist. I would guess Buddist, Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims and many others also don't believe in evolution or the literal flood.

 

[Barbarian]

(Barbarian observes that the flood story in Genesis is an allegory)

Riiiiiiite...Sure...
There is absolutely, positively nothing in the text that would even hint that the flood was an allegory.

Aside from the fact that a wooden ship that size would leak so badly, eight people couldn't bail it, there is no physical evidence for a world flood, there isn't enough space for every known land vertebrate, and a thousand other problems.

The only reason you say that is because you are convinced that evolution is true.

And the evidence. That's what really counts.

2 Peter 3:3-6 (KJV)
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, [4] And saying, Where is the promise of his coming?

Not this Barbarian. He's an orthodox Trinitarian Christian. And the fact that an allegory is repeated in the NT does not convert it to literal history. Try again.

The apostle Peter sure didn't believe that the flood was an allegory or even a local flood.

I don't remember him writing that there was a literal worldwide flood. Could you cite that verse for me?

Barbarian observes:
Both Darwin and Wallace (who co-discovered natural selection) were Christians when they made the discovery.

To say that Charles Darwin was a Christian is nothing short of blasphemy.

No, blasphemy is insulting God. Saying that Darwin was a Christian is simply pointing out a fact. He was, as he freely admits, a believer in God when he wrote his book. Wallace, his co-discoverer, remained a Christian his whole life.

Just because someone professes Christ doesn't really mean a whole lot in many cases.

Are you a Christian?

Look at the fruit. Darwin has lead countless numbers of people away from the faith and into eternal damnation because of his godless theory.

God does not judge you on whether or not you accept evolution. Are you sure you're a Christian?

One example is the eagle scout atheist who made news a while back:

In an Associated Press article published by the Seattle Post-Intelligencer on November 5, 2002, Lambert said that he became an atheist in ninth grade, “when he concluded that science had disproved the accounts of creation given in the Bible.â€Â

Creationists have caused a lot of that. They insist that being a Christian must mean that you put a literal translation on Genesis, and when people find out it can't be literal, they sometimes assume that means that Christianity is wrong.

BTW, large font doesn't make people think you are more credible, as hard as that might be to believe.

 

[mh13]

I don't remember him writing that there was a literal worldwide flood. Could you cite that verse for me?

[5] For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: [6] :Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished 2Peter3:5,6
Note that the world that was perished. It had to be worldwide

 

[Barbarian]

I'm still missing the part where he says it was literal, rather than an allegory.

Could you include that?

 

[cubedbee]

I don't remember him writing that there was a literal worldwide flood. Could you cite that verse for me?

[5] For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: [6] :Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished 2Peter3:5,6
Note that the world that was perished. It had to be worldwide

"The world" can refer to the people who inhabit this Earth. At the time of Noah, humanity hadn't spread throughout the world. A local Mesopotanian flood could have killed all humans except Noah and his family. The entire inhabited world could have been flooded and Noah could have saved all the local animals in a big boat conceivably.

 

[mh13]

I'm still missing the part where he says it was literal, rather than an allegory.

Could you include that?

Here's another passage.
2 Peter 2 NKJV
4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly;

How in the world would you use an allegorical interpretation?

Jesus taught the flood was literal. Matthew 24 NKJV
36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven,[5] but My Father only. 37But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

 

[Barbarian]

I would like to see the verse that says if Jesus repeats an allegory, that changes it from allegory to literal history.

Or alternately, where Jesus says the Flood story is not allegorical.

Or maybe, that we can show Jesus never spoke in parables or allegory.

Can you show me one of those?

 

[Guest]

:o Yes, I know that. Science works well for christian scientists who don't believe in evolution.
Religious tolerance would be a great thing if it didn't go against God & the word of God.We are warned in the bible about those preaching another gospel and if you are are christian who believes the bible literally,I don't see how you could accept what God says is wrong. It doesn't mean you have to go to extremes and hurt people ect...that would not be christian behavior,but you don't have to swear allegiance to the new world order either,yet if you won't you will be killed.
They are all those who don't like it when someone tells them about Jesus Christ. They believe it violates their rights.
History also seems to be very different to you also than it is to me.And The Christian Martryrs of long ago,
Of course they wouldn't bow down to these people,the bible told them it's wrong,and most important,they would not denie Christ Jesus.

 

[SyntaxVorlon]

After all this repetition of unsupported arguments and basis bereft comments from blue, there remains only this to be said:
Please do not feed the troll.