Incapable churches

[gingercat]

I was talking about this in my other thread and was told I was off the topic so I am starting a new one.

The churches are supposed to help and capable to help other fellow believers when they have problems. But It seems that they are not so helpful when it's time to use Jesus' wisdom.

Please don't accuse me of generalizing. It is such an old and lame accusation.

 

[thessalonian]

I was talking about this in my other thread and was told I was off the topic so I am starting a new one.

The churches are supposed to help and capable to help other fellow believers when they have problems. But It seems that they are not so helpful when it's time to use Jesus' wisdom.

Please don't accuse me of generalizing. It is such an old and lame accusation.

Well then give us some statistics and a plentiful supply of examples on which you base your theory so that it has credibility. Have you talked to pastors of all the various denominations, asking how they handle problems or if they help people in trouble? Do you know the statistics for divorce, suicide, etc. etc. in various denominations and whether it is on the increase or decrease? Otherwise it is just finger pointing and pharasitical. You've got to give us some data otherwise it is your word against our experience in our various churches. To say you know better with no supporting data is arrogance and prejudice.

 

[gingercat]

I was talking about this in my other thread and was told I was off the topic so I am starting a new one.

The churches are supposed to help and capable to help other fellow believers when they have problems. But It seems that they are not so helpful when it's time to use Jesus' wisdom.

Please don't accuse me of generalizing. It is such an old and lame accusation.

Well then give us some statistics and a plentiful supply of examples on which you base your theory so that it has credibility. Have you talked to pastors of all the various denominations, asking how they handle problems or if they help people in trouble? Do you know the statistics for divorce, suicide, etc. etc. in various denominations and whether it is on the increase or decrease? Otherwise it is just finger pointing and pharasitical. You've got to give us some data otherwise it is your word against our experience in our various churches. To say you know better with no supporting data is arrogance and prejudice.

Well, it is your opinion and I know you don't like it because your denomination don't have much of furit showing. You will keep come after me to see what I am up to. I did not attend your denomination but I have plenty of your people all around me. :wink:

 

[Heidi]

I was talking about this in my other thread and was told I was off the topic so I am starting a new one.

The churches are supposed to help and capable to help other fellow believers when they have problems. But It seems that they are not so helpful when it's time to use Jesus' wisdom.

Please don't accuse me of generalizing. It is such an old and lame accusation.

Well then give us some statistics and a plentiful supply of examples on which you base your theory so that it has credibility. Have you talked to pastors of all the various denominations, asking how they handle problems or if they help people in trouble? Do you know the statistics for divorce, suicide, etc. etc. in various denominations and whether it is on the increase or decrease? Otherwise it is just finger pointing and pharasitical. You've got to give us some data otherwise it is your word against our experience in our various churches. To say you know better with no supporting data is arrogance and prejudice.

We have but you ignore them.

 

[destiny]

I was talking about this in my other thread and was told I was off the topic so I am starting a new one.

The churches are supposed to help and capable to help other fellow believers when they have problems. But It seems that they are not so helpful when it's time to use Jesus' wisdom.

Please don't accuse me of generalizing. It is such an old and lame accusation.

Well then give us some statistics and a plentiful supply of examples on which you base your theory so that it has credibility. Have you talked to pastors of all the various denominations, asking how they handle problems or if they help people in trouble? Do you know the statistics for divorce, suicide, etc. etc. in various denominations and whether it is on the increase or decrease? Otherwise it is just finger pointing and pharasitical. You've got to give us some data otherwise it is your word against our experience in our various churches. To say you know better with no supporting data is arrogance and prejudice.

Well, it is your opinion and I know you don't like it because your denomination don't have much of furit showing. You will keep come after me to see what I am up to. I did not attend your denomination but I have plenty of your people all around me. :wink:

What you said can be considered just your opinion also gingercat, if you can't provide some data.
It's not that I completely disagree with you, It's because you present your case based on "because I said so".
All he did was ask you for some facts, and look at the rude way you responded.
You hurt your case with your attitude.

 

[gingercat]

What you said can be considered just your opinion also gingercat, if you can't provide some data.

Of course all of my convictions are my opinions. But I never try to stop anyone saying it is just blanket statement.

If I mislead or being stumbling block to anyone, I will be in deep trouble with Lord!

Because this country's christianity is such chaos in every ways, we have pelenty of ugly facts of practices. It is disgracing His name!

If you dont think it is worth reading then leave it. I am doing what I believe He wants me to do.

 

[thessalonian]

I was talking about this in my other thread and was told I was off the topic so I am starting a new one.

The churches are supposed to help and capable to help other fellow believers when they have problems. But It seems that they are not so helpful when it's time to use Jesus' wisdom.

Please don't accuse me of generalizing. It is such an old and lame accusation.

Well then give us some statistics and a plentiful supply of examples on which you base your theory so that it has credibility. Have you talked to pastors of all the various denominations, asking how they handle problems or if they help people in trouble? Do you know the statistics for divorce, suicide, etc. etc. in various denominations and whether it is on the increase or decrease? Otherwise it is just finger pointing and pharasitical. You've got to give us some data otherwise it is your word against our experience in our various churches. To say you know better with no supporting data is arrogance and prejudice.

We have but you ignore them.

Heidi dear I'm talking to ginger. She has not. Nor have you for that matter. If you have please show me and I will retract my statement and graciously apologize.

 

[thessalonian]

But I never try to stop anyone saying it is just blanket statement.

Please don't accuse me of generalizing. It is such an old and lame accusation.

:-? :roll:

 

[gingercat]

dear I'm talking to ginger. She has not. Nor have you for that matter. If you have please show me and I will retract my statement and graciously apologize.

If I bring the facts of evil deeds of RCC would you apologize? I am sure many of this borad showed it to you. You just dont accept it. Thats why I bring the fruit what I see from every day life of churchegoers, and Catholics are even worse because of their sins are mostly coming from priests.

Do you have to ask every one the proof of what they are talking about? It seems just childish nitpicking to me.

BTW, are you priest? this is my fouth one to ask the same question and you have been avoiding. Why are you avoiding this simple question?

 

[thessalonian]

If I bring the facts of evil deeds of RCC would you apologize? I am sure many of this borad showed it to you. You just dont accept it. Thats why I bring the fruit what I see from every day life of churchegoers, and Catholics are even worse because of their sins are mostly coming from priests.

I don't ingore what is true. And if you have paid attention I dealt head on with thre preist scandal. I don't however accept everything hook line and sinker that an anticatholic posts on this board. Some of it I have researched and found to be verifiably false. Some has a mixture of truth and error, some lacks historical consideration and context. It is evident to me that you do little study and just base your views on gossip. As for most sins comming from priests as a matter of fact the offenders among priests in the Church make up perhaps 2-4%. There is as high as a 7% incidence of such sins among the general population. I bet you would find similar if not worse numbers among non-church going Christians. But I will not state my suspicians as facts as you like to do. Protestant pastors committ child molestations as well. See http://www.reformation.com. And adultery is very common among Protestant pastors. 13%. Want me to back it up. Now I bet there are cases of adultery among non Church going Christians. Of course you hide behind a lack of data because of non-affiliation. Are you a sinner Ginger. You keep ignoring that question.

Do you have to ask every one the proof of what they are talking about? It seems just childish nitpicking to me.

Yep, I think we should be able to defend what we post on this board. That's called having an intellecual discussion. It's sad you will not or can not engage in such a discussion.

BTW, are you priest? this is my fouth one to ask the same question and you have been avoiding. Why are you avoiding this simple question?

The search engine tells me you have only asked it twice before. I don't see where it makes any difference. Besides maybe it's none of your business and what are you implying by your question. I'm a child molester? I could really care less, what false accusations are going through your head. Are you a sinner. You keep avoiding that question even though Paul and Peter and many of the prophets were quite forthright about it.

 

[thessalonian]

By the way, the anser to your silly question is in my profile.

 

[Nocturnal_Principal_X]

Just curious, is this topic going to be another bashing ground between Catholics and Protestants? Also, gingercat might you make some suggestions? So far all you have done is complain about the “sin,†and “evils†of Catholics and Protestants. Frankly we get the point. Now it is time for you to do something about it, other then complaining.

I agree, by the way, that American churches are in serious trouble. It is a sad reality but liberal theology, complacency, and apathy has seeped into church in America. So what am I going to do about itâ€â€am I going to simply complain about it in an online forumâ€â€no! What I’m going to do is plug myself into a church and try to change things in that church, hopefully I will inspire someone to do the same in another church. If enough people do something in their local churches real change may be possible.

Now if what I have said, in the paragraph above, is no good or not enough then by all means make suggestions on what I can do. In turn others may read your suggestions and take them to heart and try to bring about change in their own churches. At any rate your pretty much “beating a dead horseâ€Ââ€â€in other words WE GET IT!

Now if this topic, like so many others turns into nothing but a bashing thread then it will be locked. If a person repents of their sin, accepts Jesus Christ as their savior, believes He died for their sins and rose again then they are Christian whither they are a Catholic or a Protestantâ€â€PERIOD!

The church is not perfect, but with God’s help it can be more pleasing to Him.

 

[gingercat]

What I’m going to do is plug myself into a church and try to change things in that church,

You havent been reading most of my posts obviousely. I hope you stop making unfair assesment of what I am doing without knowing what exacrly am doing. It seems to me you are doing the same like the most of the people on the forums to silence what I am doing. I am saying this becasue I have been getting all kinds of harrasement from the mods and posters. If you believe I am only complaining why do I get so many harrasments?

It seems that what I am doing is intimidating to many of the churchgoers.

If I am only complaining you can just ignore me instead of harrasing me.

 

[destiny]

Proverbs 13:1
A wise son heeds his father's instruction,
but a mocker does not listen to rebuke.

 

[Heidi]

By the way, the anser to your silly question is in my profile.

Please refer to the thread on "changing the bible" and you will see the list of lies that I have provided that the catholic church embraces that have hurt billions of people because they have lied to them about Mary, the fact that their doctrine is infallible and about the fact that our Holy Father is the pope. Deceit is deceit and it keeps people away from the truth of Christ's words. But what do you care if the catholic church hurts people? Therefore, you ignore these things.

 

[WMD]

I was talking about this in my other thread and was told I was off the topic so I am starting a new one.

The churches are supposed to help and capable to help other fellow believers when they have problems. But It seems that they are not so helpful when it's time to use Jesus' wisdom.

Please don't accuse me of generalizing. It is such an old and lame accusation.

Sorry I DO have to accuse you because this is exactly what this statement has just done.

I think I smell a troll.

 

[WMD]

.....Thats why I bring the fruit what I see from every day life of churchegoers.....

But you really haven't brought any fruit. You tell us there is fruit. You say that you have even seen it. Yet you can give no examples of this fruit. I am not even expecting hard fast proof, just some firsthand examples would be fine.

and Catholics are even worse because of their sins are mostly coming from priests.

I don't believe a lot of the catholic faith either, but this just seems like a personal attack.

Do you have to ask every one the proof of what they are talking about? It seems just childish nitpicking to me.

Actually intelligent people always question and ask for proof. It is not nitpicking. If there was more demand for proof from the president we wouldn't have lost over 1000 soldiers and counting. (but that is a different debate.) If you blindly believe everything that people tell you, you will quickly find yourself in trouble.

 

[Nocturnal_Principal_X]

You havent been reading most of my posts obviousely. I hope you stop making unfair assesment of what I am doing without knowing what exacrly am doing. It seems to me you are doing the same like the most of the people on the forums to silence what I am doing. I am saying this becasue I have been getting all kinds of harrasement from the mods and posters. If you believe I am only complaining why do I get so many harrasments?

It seems that what I am doing is intimidating to many of the churchgoers.

If I am only complaining you can just ignore me instead of harrasing me.

I have read a lot of your posts, and PMs. It is interesting how you view my comments as harassment. Yet again you fail to listenâ€â€it is fully apparent all you are interested in doing is pushing your rhetoric. At any rate perhaps you should read my comments again and take them to heart.

Oh one more thing, I mentioned in my other post that I agreed with you, all I ask for was some suggestions on what to do.

 

[gingercat]

But you really haven't brought any fruit.

How can I bring any fruit in the internet. I dont beliebe you know what the Christian's fruit is. You should be able to see fruit of Christianity in your daily lives.

You sound like one of the churchgoers I have met.

Have you seen anyone bringing any productive discussion here? I don't think so! Most of us are just fighting.

Everyone is expressing their convictions and I am just doing mine. Why should I be any different from yours. Just because I don't talk or debate just like you, you have right to ostrasize me?

I refuse to be one of the majority. Most of you are talking and fighting and debating alike.

You are criticizing me because I don't follow your conventional popular-seeking style.

 

[gingercat]

Noc,

I remember everything that you have told me. I have been to many forums and I got all kinds of harassment from many posters and mods. This is not the only furum I joined.

It is obvious to me my threads are intimidating to them. I don't talk like conventional churchgoers. I don't follow their traditonal way of talking. I believe they have convenient way of avoiding the problems. That's why they don't like my way of talk because I make everything clear and simple so I can make them understand what I am talking about. I don't beat around the bush. Most people want to avoid the realty and the truth. I don't cooperate with this kind of nonsense.