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Infant Baptism

JLB said:
I posted the scripture that says baptism in water is for believers.

I also posted Romans 10:9-10 to show how a person is saved.


I just don't see how an infant can believe the gospel if they don't understand words yet.


JLB
Click to expand...

Jesus tells us how someone is saved:
"He who believes and is baptized will be saved"

But Jesus often acted on the faith of a third person - Mt 8:13, Jairus' daughter (Mk 5), and the paralytic (Mk 2)
 
2 Timothy 3:2-5, "....they hold to a form of Godliness, although they have denied it's truth.

2 Timothy: 3:7, "they are always learning, but never coming to the knowledge of the truth."

Proverbs 14: 12, "There is a way that seems right to a man, but it's end is the way of death.

Romans 14 22, "The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God,
happy is he who doesn't condemn himself in what he approves

Matthew 7:21 Not everyone who says to ME Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 7:14"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and FEW are those who find it.

Luke 13: 23-24 "And someone said to JESUS, "Lord, are there just a few being saved? And Jesus said to them,
strive to enter by the narrow door, for MANY, I tell you will seek to enter, and will not be able.

2 Thess. 2: 10-11, "...They did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved, and for this reason God will send upon them a dilusional mind, so they might believe what is false.

Romans 1:28, "And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a "REPROBATE (WICKED) mind to do those things which are not proper."

So many added idea's here that are not scriptural all through this thread , based on many of the posters personal beliefs they either made up or believed a lie of someone else.

Gods words are true and have power.
Man words are hollow, and only lead to destruction.

Be careful what you say here, for man will be judged for every idle word he speaks. :angry :wall

My name is OLIGOS
 
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Mungo said:
Jesus tells us how someone is saved:
"He who believes and is baptized will be saved"

But Jesus often acted on the faith of a third person - Mt 8:13, Jairus' daughter (Mk 5), and the paralytic (Mk 2)
Click to expand...

Which baptism is Jesus referring to?
 
Seasoned by Grace said:
2 Timothy 3:2-5, "....they hold to a form of Godliness, although they have denied it's truth.

2 Timothy: 3:7, "they are always learning, but never coming to the knowledge of the truth."

Proverbs 14: 12, "There is a way that seems right to a man, but it's end is the way of death.

Romans 14 22, "The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God,
happy is he who doesn't condemn himself in what he approves

Matthew 7:21 Not everyone who says to ME Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 7:14"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and FEW are those who find it.

Luke 13: 23-24 "And someone said to JESUS, "Lord, are there just a few being saved? And Jesus said to them,
strive to enter by the narrow door, for MANY, I tell you will seek to enter, and will not be able."

So many added idea's here that are not scriptural all through this thread , based on many of the posters personal beliefs they either made up or believed a lie of someone else.

Gods words are true and have power.
Man words are hollow, and only lead to destruction.

Be careful what you say here, for man will be judged for every idle word he speaks. :angry :wall

My name is OLIGOS
Click to expand...


What do you believe is required for a person to be saved?
 
Mungo said:
There is only one that is truly called baptism and that is with water.
Click to expand...

So the baptism with the Spirit, is not a true baptism?


And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5


Do you believe the Promise of the Father is just for a few people in the first century, or is for all who believe, in these last days?



JLB
 
The early Church baptised infants.

Irenaeus
"He [Jesus] came to save all through himself; all, I say, who through him are reborn in God--infants, and children, and youths, and old men. Therefore he passed through every age, becoming an infant for infants, sanctifying infants; a child for children, sanctifying those who are of that age . . . [so that] he might be the perfect teacher in all things, perfect not only in respect to the setting forth of truth, perfect also in respect to relative age" (Against Heresies 2:22:4 [A.D. 180]).

Hippolytus
"Where there is no scarcity of water the stream shall flow through the baptismal font or pour into it from above; but if water is scarce, whether on a constant condition or on occasion, then use whatever water is available. Let them remove their clothing. Baptize first the children, and if they can speak for themselves let them do so. Otherwise, let their parents or other relatives speak for them" (The Apostolic Tradition 21:16 [A.D. 215]).

Origen
"Every soul that is born into flesh is soiled by the filth of wickedness and sin . . . In the Church baptism is given for the remission of sins, and, according to the usage of the Church, baptism is given even to infants. If there were nothing in infants which required the remission of sins and nothing in them pertinent to forgiveness, the grace of baptism would seem superfluous" (Homilies on Leviticus 8:3 [A.D. 244]).

Origen
"The Church received from the apostles the tradition of giving baptism even to infants. The apostles, to whom were committed the secrets of divine mysteries [sacraments], knew there is in everyone innate strains of [original] sin, which must be washed away through water and the Spirit" (Commentaries on Romans 5:9 [A.D. 244]).

Cyprian
"As to what pertains to the case of infants: You [Fidus] said that they ought not to be baptized within the second or third day after their birth, that the old law of circumcision must be taken into consideration, and that you did not think that one should be baptized and sanctified within the eighth day after his birth.

In our council it seemed to us far otherwise. No one agreed to the course which you thought should be taken. Rather, we all judge that the mercy and grace of God ought to be denied to no man born" (Letter to Fidus 64:2 [A.D. 251]).

Taken from This Rock magazine Meptember 1991
 
Mungo said:
There is only one that is truly called baptism and that is with water.
Click to expand...

Man baptizes us in water.

Jesus Baptizes us with the Spirit.

The Spirit baptizes us into Christ.

We are saved when the Spirit baptizes us in Christ.

Afterward we are baptized in water by man.

Then we are baptized by Jesus with the Holy Spirit.




JLB
 
Mungo said:
The early Church baptised infants.

Irenaeus
"He [Jesus] came to save all through himself; all, I say, who through him are reborn in God--infants, and children, and youths, and old men. Therefore he passed through every age, becoming an infant for infants, sanctifying infants; a child for children, sanctifying those who are of that age . . . [so that] he might be the perfect teacher in all things, perfect not only in respect to the setting forth of truth, perfect also in respect to relative age" (Against Heresies 2:22:4 [A.D. 180]).

Hippolytus
"Where there is no scarcity of water the stream shall flow through the baptismal font or pour into it from above; but if water is scarce, whether on a constant condition or on occasion, then use whatever water is available. Let them remove their clothing. Baptize first the children, and if they can speak for themselves let them do so. Otherwise, let their parents or other relatives speak for them" (The Apostolic Tradition 21:16 [A.D. 215]).

Origen
"Every soul that is born into flesh is soiled by the filth of wickedness and sin . . . In the Church baptism is given for the remission of sins, and, according to the usage of the Church, baptism is given even to infants. If there were nothing in infants which required the remission of sins and nothing in them pertinent to forgiveness, the grace of baptism would seem superfluous" (Homilies on Leviticus 8:3 [A.D. 244]).

Origen
"The Church received from the apostles the tradition of giving baptism even to infants. The apostles, to whom were committed the secrets of divine mysteries [sacraments], knew there is in everyone innate strains of [original] sin, which must be washed away through water and the Spirit" (Commentaries on Romans 5:9 [A.D. 244]).

Cyprian
"As to what pertains to the case of infants: You [Fidus] said that they ought not to be baptized within the second or third day after their birth, that the old law of circumcision must be taken into consideration, and that you did not think that one should be baptized and sanctified within the eighth day after his birth.

In our council it seemed to us far otherwise. No one agreed to the course which you thought should be taken. Rather, we all judge that the mercy and grace of God ought to be denied to no man born" (Letter to Fidus 64:2 [A.D. 251]).

Taken from This Rock magazine Meptember 1991
Click to expand...

Who uses extra biblical evidence over scripture?


Please use scripture to validate doctrine.




JLB
 
JLB said:
So the baptism with the Spirit, is not a true baptism?


And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5


Do you believe the Promise of the Father is just for a few people in the first century, or is for all who believe, in these last days?





JLB
Click to expand...
It's a figure of speech. Yes, the outpouring of the Holy Spirit was a reality but describing it a being baptised was a figure of speech, just as Luke described the same event using a different figure of speech (Lk 24:49)
 
JLB said:
Man baptizes us in water.

Jesus Baptizes us with the Spirit.

The Spirit baptizes us into Christ.

We are saved when the Spirit baptizes us in Christ.

Afterward we are baptized in water by man.

Then we are baptized by Jesus with the Holy Spirit.




JLB
Click to expand...
As I predicted we are just getting into another intermidable baptism argument.
 
Mungo said:
As I predicted we are just getting into another intermidable baptism argument.
Click to expand...

I hope we can discuss the scriptures that pertain to this subject.

Maybe through honest dialog we can reach a consensus on what the Bible teaches about salvation.


I asked some questions.

Why don’t we take turns asking each other a question, then answering. Also using scripture in our answers.

If you would like to go first then please do so.




JLB
 
Mungo said:
It's a figure of speech. Yes, the outpouring of the Holy Spirit was a reality but describing it a being baptised was a figure of speech, just as Luke described the same event using a different figure of speech (Lk 24:49)
Click to expand...

So you believe Jesus baptizing people with the Holy Spirit, was a figure of speech but not a true baptism?

Do I understand you correctly?



JLB
 
Mungo said:
It's a figure of speech. Yes, the outpouring of the Holy Spirit was a reality but describing it a being baptised was a figure of speech, just as Luke described the same event using a different figure of speech (Lk 24:49)
Click to expand...

Dont you agree that the baptism with the Holy Spirit is the Promise of the Father?


JLB
 
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