Inherint contradictions teaching Faith Alone

[RBDERRICK]

There are no inherint contradictions about faith alone. God says it's dead to Him, and so it is. People can argue with God about what is alive or dead to Him, based on what they believe it is to them, but it's still true without contradiction, that faith without works, being alone is dead.

The inner contradictions only come with trying to teach faith alone as being alive to justify soul having it.

1. The common teaching of justification by faith alone, is that justification is only by faith alone, and never by nor with works.

That's important to understand, because that forbids any works added to one's faith alone, lest their faith is not alone, being with works: For faith alone apart from works to ever justify a person, then any faith with works must never justify the soul.

It's not just that we can be justified by our faith alone, but it's at war against ever being justified by faith with works: Faith Alone must always Stand Alone against ever having works added to it. (Sort of like a shining idol, I mean light, that must always be naked)

Lest faith with works ever justify the soul, then no one must ever add works to their faith, at all. That's equally important, because it forbids any works at all from being added to their faith, and thus mar their faith alone with works.

Whther it's the workd of 'flowering', I mean, 'flowing' fruit, works to justify a soul, no works at all must ever being added to the pristine beauty of one's own justifying Faith ALone. (Like a Goddess of light, she must never be clothed by tawdry works of any kind, whether good or bad...)

Teaching justification is only by faith alone, is teaching against ever having faith with works, lest faith not be alone, having works.

The Bible of course teaches the opposite, but we're showing inherint flaws in teaching, which the Bible has none.

2. The teachers of self-justification, I mean, justification by their very own faith alone, are all not only confessing sinners, but everyone of them confess they surely shall sin again and again, more or less. By their own faith alone, it's never 'if' they sin (as it is for the saints in Christ Jesus), but only 'when' they sin some more and more, or with some less and less.

Well, since by their faith they are sure to be sinning, more or less, then their faith never really is alone without any works at all? Therefore, they are titling their doctrine with the beauty of holy Faith Alone for show, but in truth they are really preaching being jsutified by their own faith, with sins and trespasses.

Afterall, any time they speak of their own works, it's always about how sure they are to sin yesterday, today, and tomorrow, if it comes. (Some even compete to be the worst of sinners, like their most favorite leader they call 'Paul'. And so we know their faith is never ever alone at all...)

3. And finally, some preach against their justificationi by actually attacking the Goddess Faith Alone, and demand that works do flower and flow, more the merrier. They do allow varying timeline to begin producing those buds, but in the end they must depart from Faith Alone, and have faith with works.

And so once again, having faith with works, they are no more justified by their jilted Faith Alone of yore. (Which seems fair. I mean if She's the only justifying faith for man, then why should she have to continue to justify anyone scorning her as some old used up hag?)

 

[RBDERRICK]

Review: When justified only by faith alone without works, the lone believer can never add works to their faith for any cause, lest they no longer be justified by a faith, that is not alone, being with works.

And by their own testimony, they never actually have any faith that is truly alone without works, because they are surely sinning daily. And so the title of Faith Alone is only a misnomer. (Sorry Your Lady). What they sneakily teach is being justified by their faith in their sins and trespasses, with works of iniquity. (It is all iniquity, which is knowingly sinning, since they know for a fact they surely shall be sinning...)

Now, if some teacher of his own faith alone wants to avoid the first contradiction of departing from their own faith alone, by adding any works, then they must allow their justification to continue in their faith with works. Thus, they are preaching justification only beginning by faith alone, with justification by faith with works commanded to follow. (They call it proving their faith is 'salvific' by works. But if Faith Alone is itself 'salvific', then isn't proving it by works also inherintly contradictive? That would be #4)

And if they want to avoid the second contradiction of hypocrisy, that they are justified by their faith with unrighteous works, then well, they could just do as Jesus Christ's gospel commands and repent of their sins and trespasses. And simply recieve by grace from God, the promised NT righteous faith of Jesus, with deliverance from their sins and trespasses. (No more need for all the contradictions and cover-ups of trying to doctrinlly forgive, save, and justify ourselves by our own faith alone, without any repentance nor good works...)

Or, they could just dig in with unrepentance and sinful works, and deepen the hypocrisy of being justified in their sins and trespasses. They can just promote the ancilliary doctrine, that their own faith alone forbids the righteous Father to any more condemn them for their works of iniquity, like He certainly does others of the world.

 

[journeyman]

Review: When justified only by faith alone without works, the lone believer can never add works to their faith for any cause, lest they no longer be justified by a faith, that is not alone, being with works.

I think the misunderstanding comes from how "faith alone" is interpreted.
We are saved by faith "alone", because God alone has a right to end the life of sinners whenever He chooses. By faith, we believe His Son could have ended the lives of sinners who were spitting on Him and wanted Him dead. For these simple reasons all are saved by His mercy alone.
Works are the result of our faith alone. We also have faith that any abiliies we have and our very lives are gifts from Him.
When we see our sin as no different from those who mocked the God that made them (and us all), that in itself is enough to straighten anybody who believes it out. And people better believe it because Jesus said,

An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: Mt.12:39 KJV

We know He conquered death, so faith that He shed His blood rather than kill His enemies gives meaning to,

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: Jn.10:27 KJV
and also
we were enemies Rom.5:10 KJV

 

[RBDERRICK]

I think the misunderstanding comes from how "faith alone" is interpreted.

Apreciate the response, but as I point out, this is not an argument about having faith alone, but about the inherint contradictions in being justified by faith alone.

Or more properly, as it's intended by the unrepentant: Only justified by faith alone, that is without any works at all. And so no one is ever jsutified by any faith at all, that is with works.

Any comments?

 

[journeyman]

Apreciate the response, but as I point out, this is not an argument about having faith alone, but about the inherint contradictions in being justified by faith alone.

Or more properly, as it's intended by the unrepentant: Only justified by faith alone, that is without any works at all. And so no one is ever jsutified by any faith at all, that is with works.

Any comments?

Yes I do have a comment and I really hope you hear it this time. No one is ever justified by works..... except for Jesus. Ok? Our faith is because of His work alone,

Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Lk.10:19 KJV

 

[tdidymas]

Review: When justified only by faith alone without works, the lone believer can never add works to their faith for any cause, lest they no longer be justified by a faith, that is not alone, being with works.

And by their own testimony, they never actually have any faith that is truly alone without works, because they are surely sinning daily. And so the title of Faith Alone is only a misnomer. (Sorry Your Lady). What they sneakily teach is being justified by their faith in their sins and trespasses, with works of iniquity. (It is all iniquity, which is knowingly sinning, since they know for a fact they surely shall be sinning...)

Now, if some teacher of his own faith alone wants to avoid the first contradiction of departing from their own faith alone, by adding any works, then they must allow their justification to continue in their faith with works. Thus, they are preaching justification only beginning by faith alone, with justification by faith with works commanded to follow. (They call it proving their faith is 'salvific' by works. But if Faith Alone is itself 'salvific', then isn't proving it by works also inherintly contradictive? That would be #4)

And if they want to avoid the second contradiction of hypocrisy, that they are justified by their faith with unrighteous works, then well, they could just do as Jesus Christ's gospel commands and repent of their sins and trespasses. And simply recieve by grace from God, the promised NT righteous faith of Jesus, with deliverance from their sins and trespasses. (No more need for all the contradictions and cover-ups of trying to doctrinlly forgive, save, and justify ourselves by our own faith alone, without any repentance nor good works...)

Or, they could just dig in with unrepentance and sinful works, and deepen the hypocrisy of being justified in their sins and trespasses. They can just promote the ancilliary doctrine, that their own faith alone forbids the righteous Father to any more condemn them for their works of iniquity, like He certainly does others of the world.

Your reasoning is proof that you don't understand the difference between justification and sanctification. Justification means that God accepts us the way we are, regardless of how sinful we may be. That faith is the logical cause is clear, by the fact that Paul says we are "justified by faith, apart from works of the law" ("law," meaning the moral law of the 10 commandments and all the ordinances and statutes based on it). Also in Rom. 8 he says "God is the one who justifies, who is he who condemns?" And Rom. 4:5 says, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness."

But the fault in your reasoning is that you appear to assume that anyone who claims justification by faith alone is antinomian, and this is why you essentially reason that whoever claims it is either going to continue sinning (to prove his theory), or else will contradict himself by saying he does works after beginning by faith. In this you don't appear to understand the Biblical usage of "faith." This is the very thing that James wrote his epistle against, because people were misusing Paul's teaching and claiming that they could commit sin because they were justified by faith.

The problem with that kind of "faith" is that it doesn't take into account that when God moves on a person for salvation, as in Eph. 2:1-10, the disposition of the heart is changed and made with godly inclinations. The converted person not only believes in God so as to trust Him in his affairs of life, but also seeks to please God in all matters. This is why Jesus said "by their fruit you shall know them."

So the idea of being justified by faith alone is only to encourage true believers to understand that God is the ultimate cause of their salvation, and they can trust scriptures which say things like "we are kept by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." That encouragement dispels the tendency to think that earning salvation is the order of the day, as was the error of the Galatians.

Therefore, there is no difference in the teaching between Paul and James. They are speaking to different audiences in their seemingly contradictory statements:
Paul: "we maintain that a man is justified by faith, apart from works of the law."
James: "you can see that we are justified by works, and not by faith alone."
Paul is writing to people inclined to legalism, thinking they have to earn salvation by good works.
James is writing to antinomians who claimed that they were justified, regardless of their ongoing sinful practices.

The difference is how the term "faith" is used. Paul is using the term "faith" in the context of Jesus' command to "repent and believe the gospel." James is using the term "faith" in the context of those who claimed to have faith but didn't prove by their actions that they were true followers of Christ. "By their fruit you shall know them." So lifestyle choices points to whether one has genuine faith or not. It doesn't negate the fact that we are justified by faith alone, as Paul taught it.

 

[Free]

There are no inherint contradictions about faith alone. God says it's dead to Him, and so it is. People can argue with God about what is alive or dead to Him, based on what they believe it is to them, but it's still true without contradiction, that faith without works, being alone is dead.

The inner contradictions only come with trying to teach faith alone as being alive to justify soul having it.

1. The common teaching of justification by faith alone, is that justification is only by faith alone, and never by nor with works.

That's important to understand, because that forbids any works added to one's faith alone, lest their faith is not alone, being with works: For faith alone apart from works to ever justify a person, then any faith with works must never justify the soul.

It's not just that we can be justified by our faith alone, but it's at war against ever being justified by faith with works: Faith Alone must always Stand Alone against ever having works added to it. (Sort of like a shining idol, I mean light, that must always be naked)

Lest faith with works ever justify the soul, then no one must ever add works to their faith, at all. That's equally important, because it forbids any works at all from being added to their faith, and thus mar their faith alone with works.

Whther it's the workd of 'flowering', I mean, 'flowing' fruit, works to justify a soul, no works at all must ever being added to the pristine beauty of one's own justifying Faith ALone. (Like a Goddess of light, she must never be clothed by tawdry works of any kind, whether good or bad...)

Teaching justification is only by faith alone, is teaching against ever having faith with works, lest faith not be alone, having works.

The Bible of course teaches the opposite, but we're showing inherint flaws in teaching, which the Bible has none.

2. The teachers of self-justification, I mean, justification by their very own faith alone, are all not only confessing sinners, but everyone of them confess they surely shall sin again and again, more or less. By their own faith alone, it's never 'if' they sin (as it is for the saints in Christ Jesus), but only 'when' they sin some more and more, or with some less and less.

Well, since by their faith they are sure to be sinning, more or less, then their faith never really is alone without any works at all? Therefore, they are titling their doctrine with the beauty of holy Faith Alone for show, but in truth they are really preaching being jsutified by their own faith, with sins and trespasses.

Afterall, any time they speak of their own works, it's always about how sure they are to sin yesterday, today, and tomorrow, if it comes. (Some even compete to be the worst of sinners, like their most favorite leader they call 'Paul'. And so we know their faith is never ever alone at all...)

3. And finally, some preach against their justificationi by actually attacking the Goddess Faith Alone, and demand that works do flower and flow, more the merrier. They do allow varying timeline to begin producing those buds, but in the end they must depart from Faith Alone, and have faith with works.

And so once again, having faith with works, they are no more justified by their jilted Faith Alone of yore. (Which seems fair. I mean if She's the only justifying faith for man, then why should she have to continue to justify anyone scorning her as some old used up hag?)

Define, succinctly, what you mean by "justification"? Is there only one definition? You really need to define terms before making such posts.

 

[tdidymas]

Define, succinctly, what you mean by "justification"? Is there only one definition? You really need to define terms before making such posts.

It was defined in my post as "accepted by God as we are." So "by faith alone" means acceptance without anything done to merit it.

 

[JLB]

There are no inherint contradictions about faith alone. God says it's dead to Him, and so it is. People can argue with God about what is alive or dead to Him, based on what they believe it is to them, but it's still true without contradiction, that faith without works, being alone is dead.

Do you understand what "works" refers to?

There is the works of the law of Moses.
There is works that earn a wage.
There is good works.

Then there is a specific "work" or action that is required of faith, to activate it, or make it alive, so that it produces the intended divine result.


I hope to have a good discussion.


I agree, "faith alone" is not biblical, and once a person understands that faith must have a certain specific work, or action, then they inherently stop using the term "faith alone".




JLB

 

[Consecrated Life]

Would it be possible for you to love people you love, Father , Mother, family / friends, and yet when they are in need of your help not help them based on the spirit of love you have for them in your heart, but rather from cold calculating mental machinery adding up the value of the "works" you do for them ?
Why not ?

 

[Free]

It was defined in my post as "accepted by God as we are." So "by faith alone" means acceptance without anything done to merit it.

I was asking the OP for his definition(s), since his argument is against justification by faith alone.

 

[GodsGrace]

Apreciate the response, but as I point out, this is not an argument about having faith alone, but about the inherint contradictions in being justified by faith alone.

Or more properly, as it's intended by the unrepentant: Only justified by faith alone, that is without any works at all. And so no one is ever jsutified by any faith at all, that is with works.

Any comments?

I'm having a difficult time understanding your OP.
No worries.... I started one like that a couple of weeks ago!

There is only one place in the entire NT that speaks of faith alone.
It's in James and it's negative.

James 2:24
24You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

James was saying how Abraham was justified by his works....they completed his faith.

We say this too now....
Faith without works is a dead faith.

But we cannot DO anything to save ourselves...this is 100% the work of God WHEN we decide to respond to His grace with a Yes.

After this yes, right, works are necessary to retain that justification.
Catholics call it on-going justification.
We call it sanctification.
Same thing.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Apreciate the response, but as I point out, this is not an argument about having faith alone, but about the inherint contradictions in being justified by faith alone.

Or more properly, as it's intended by the unrepentant: Only justified by faith alone, that is without any works at all. And so no one is ever jsutified by any faith at all, that is with works.

Any comments?

Seriously? Aren't you tired of this topic? "Faith vs work" is a FALSE DICHOTOMY, these two go hand in hand like two sides of the same coin, you can't really have one without the other. Salvation is through faith alone, that much is true, but God's protection, blessing and rewards for you are all contingent upon obedience, see the long list of blessings and curses in Deut. 28. Our work will be tested, those whose work fails the test will suffer loss and get nothing in the Lord's kingdom.

Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. (1 Cor. 3:12-15)

 

[tdidymas]

I was asking the OP for his definition(s), since his argument is against justification by faith alone.

Oops, my mistake, I apparently didn't notice who you replied to.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

After this yes, right, works are necessary to retain that justification.
Catholics call it on-going justification.
We call it sanctification.
Same thing.

Justification is a free gift, which was accomplished on the cross, but only the doers of the Lord's teachings will enjoy the Lord's blessing in this life and inherit the kingdom in the next life. Take the parable of the prodigal son for example there's one key detail which is often overlooked and/or ignored - the prodigal son is welcomed back, but he has lost his inheritance, he has squandered it all on harlots; what's left belongs to the older son who has been obediently serving the father, despite of his outrage and grumpiness.

But he (the older brother) was angry and would not go in. Therefore his father came out and pleaded with him. So he answered and said to his father, ‘Lo, these many years I have been serving you; I never transgressed your commandment at any time; and yet you never gave me a young goat, that I might make merry with my friends. But as soon as this son of yours came, who has devoured your livelihood with harlots, you killed the fatted calf for him.’ “And he said to him, ‘Son, you are always with me, and all that I have is yours. It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’ (Lk. 15:28-32)

 

[GodsGrace]

Justification is a free gift, which was accomplished on the cross, but only the doers of the Lord's teachings will enjoy the Lord's blessing in this life and inherit the kingdom in the next life. Take the parable of the prodigal son for example there's one key detail which is often overlooked and/or ignored - the prodigal son is welcomed back, but he has lost his inheritance, he has squandered it all on harlots; what's left belongs to the older son who has been obediently serving the father, despite of his outrage and grumpiness.

But he (the older brother) was angry and would not go in. Therefore his father came out and pleaded with him. So he answered and said to his father, ‘Lo, these many years I have been serving you; I never transgressed your commandment at any time; and yet you never gave me a young goat, that I might make merry with my friends. But as soon as this son of yours came, who has devoured your livelihood with harlots, you killed the fatted calf for him.’ “And he said to him, ‘Son, you are always with me, and all that I have is yours. It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’ (Lk. 15:28-32)

Agreed.
The son got 2/3 of the inheritance because he was the eldest.
He SQUANDERED it. Exactly!

Just like a down payment could be squandered...
Those that adhere to the guarantee idea from the Holy Spirit and how they have the down payment don't seem able to grasp this.
And I'm tired of explaining it, so it's so nice to see you agree.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Yes I do have a comment and I really hope you hear it this time. No one is ever justified by works..... except for Jesus. Ok? Our faith is because of His work alone,

Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Lk.10:19 KJV

Yes, I heard your argument for having faith alone.

The argument made, is of inherint contradiction in trying to teach justifiction by one's own faith alone.

I wanted to give another chance to show any error in that argument. Or conceeding it by vacating it.

 

[RBDERRICK]

But the fault in your reasoning

My argument is not about having faith alone itself, but about how those teaching justification by their faith alone, has inherint flaws of contradiction, once anyway adds works to their faith.

And so, you show no fault in my reasoning, but rather argue with someone else, that may say there is no justification by faith alone at all.

I'm not making that argument.

If you want to show any fault in my reasoning, then you can argue against the problem with onbe being justified by faith alone, once anyone adds faith to their works, and now has faith with works, not faith alone.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Define, succinctly, what you mean by "justification"? Is there only one definition? You really need to define terms before making such posts.

Not true. The argument is against several flaws of contradiction in the teaching of justification by faith alone. It's not about the justification.

If you want to know what the justification itself is, then you need to ask those who teach it.

 

[journeyman]

Yes, I heard your argument for having faith alone.

The argument made, is of inherint contradiction in trying to teach justifiction by one's own faith alone.

I wanted to give another chance to show any error in that argument. Or conceeding it by vacating it.

You keep saying "faith alone." We are saved by faith alone in Christs' work. Our faith is the result of what our Savior did.

the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. Jn.10:25