Interesting Point about Baptism

[WIP]

We've had a few discussions about baptism by water vs baptism by the Holy Spirit and whether or not water baptism is required or important. I was reading through Acts 10 this morning where Peter preached to Cornelius and his household. What caught my attention was the turn of events and the order in which they occurred. I thought I'd post here in the Lounge because I don't wish to debate it but just wanted to share it for what it's worth. I found it interesting that even after receiving the Holy Spirit, Peter commanded that they all be baptized with water.

While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days. Acts 10:44-48 NKJV

Just food for thought.

 

[stovebolts]

It was part of the great commandment and were the last words Peter heard from Jesus.
.... And teaching them to be deciples... Baptism and the receiving of the Holy Spirit isn't the end, it's just the beginning. It's the milk of the gospel, yet we make it out to either be water, or meat. Water because to some, it's not significant and meat because some use it as a line between heaven and hell.
But I regress, it's the entry point and it's a means, not a goal.

 

[JohnDB]

To me,
This is one of those things where we tend to make mountains out of mole hills.

Sure it's important. But man's choices and actions don't really influence God's choices and actions.

Used to be that three days of isolation, fasting, and prayer were required after the persecution was over in order to receive baptism. Also many waited until they were on their deathbed to be baptized so that they wouldn't sin after having been Baptized. (Constantine did this)

 

[Malachi]

I found it interesting that even after receiving the Holy Spirit, Peter commanded that they all be baptized with water.

And that is there for a reason. God provided a pattern for us to follow. People who claim that water baptism is unnecessary don't really wish to follow the biblical pattern (not just here but throughout the Acts of the Apostles.

 

[Malachi]

Sure it's important. But man's choices and actions don't really influence God's choices and actions.

I wonder where you obtained this little bit of wisdom. It would appear that the exact opposite in the case. Take the case of Abraham. It is only because Abraham believed God, that God gave him the Abrahamic Covenant. First came the man's faith, and then came all of God's actions towards Abraham.

 

[Malachi]

But I regress, it's the entry point and it's a means, not a goal.

Yes but if the entry point is not appropriated, then there is no further progress.

 

[Corn Pop]

I do not believe Christ rejects people who dont get dunked in water, but whoever believes that God raised Christ from the dead is saved through there faith and recieves the spirit for guidence. Theres many things one can or does not do. Not everyone observes sabbath, breaks bread, goes to church, gets baptised, but they believe God raised Christ from the dead and confess with there mouth and believe in there heart and follow him and live after the Spirit and not the flesh and I dont believe God will condemn them for there faith in Christ.

 

[JohnDB]

I wonder where you obtained this little bit of wisdom. It would appear that the exact opposite in the case. Take the case of Abraham. It is only because Abraham believed God, that God gave him the Abrahamic Covenant. First came the man's faith, and then came all of God's actions towards Abraham.

Experience got me that nugget.
I wasn't speaking to our choice for faith...that's a given in my head but throughout the Bible we see people choosing the biggest guy or prettiest girl but God looks at the heart.
We see people praying for things or situations in their lives and they don't see the whole picture accurately so God does nothing or something different than what they ask. Because God is always good... Meaning often our hearts deceive us but God is more gooder and gives us what we need...even when it's less.
We tend to get caught up in moments and God looks at eternity.

 

[JLB]

I found it interesting that even after receiving the Holy Spirit, Peter commanded that they all be baptized with water.

Yes sir.

If Peter thought it important to Baptize them in water, after the had been Baptized in the Holy Spirit, then why don't we follow His example and teach the same.

Amen.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Baptism and the receiving of the Holy Spirit isn't the end, it's just the beginning. It's the milk of the gospel, yet we make it out to either be water, or meat.

Amen!

 

[Barbarian]

If Peter thought it important to Baptize them in water, after the had been Baptized in the Holy Spirit, then why don't we follow His example and teach the same.

We should, and it is important. Nevertheless, if for any reason this cannot be done, baptism of desire is as valid in the eyes of God as actual baptism by water.

 

[Malachi]

I do not believe Christ rejects people who dont get dunked in water, but whoever believes that God raised Christ from the dead is saved through there faith and recieves the spirit for guidence.

It is not a question of Christ rejecting anyone who does not get baptized. That person retards his own spiritual testimony and growth. A command is a command, therefore Peter COMMANDED the household of Cornelius to be baptized. And Christ sent Ananias to baptize Paul. Most Christians simply bypass these examples and instructions.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days. Acts 10:44-48 NKJV

Just food for thought.

I think Peter is referencing: Revelation 22:17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.

See how it doesn't say "water baptism" in Acts 10, it says just "water"....... and in Revelation it is combining the Spirit with reference to the water.

When it says, "And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord"............. That is the seal stamped on the Holy Spirit baptism.

 

[Corn Pop]

It is not a question of Christ rejecting anyone who does not get baptized. That person retards his own spiritual testimony and growth. A command is a command, therefore Peter COMMANDED the household of Cornelius to be baptized. And Christ sent Ananias to baptize Paul. Most Christians simply bypass these examples and instructions.

It says baptised in the name of the Lord, baptised in Christ, not baptised in the H2O of the Lord, the NAME of the Lord. Baptised in the Gospel.

I cannot find scripture that says be baptised in Oxygen2Hydrogen of the Lord. But I do see baptised in the NAME of the Lord.

And the word baptise does not mean water.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

From the earliest points in history there was a water baptism from sin. It might be from this reference that John the Baptist baptized the people and said to repent, turn from your sins and turn to God. That event is the flood, and God washed away everything except a small remenent of mankind and 2 of every other species. God did this because the sin of the world was so much. John baptized people, and even Jesus's desciples baptized people as well. It is very much worth considering, expecially if we are able to be baptized.

 

[Barbarian]

Is that from the catechism?

It's from God. He dictated a book for us to read. Consider it.

I don't think that comes from the scriptures?

Luke 23:39 And one of those robbers who were hanged, blasphemed him, saying: If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. [40] But the other answering, rebuked him, saying: Neither dost thou fear God, seeing thou art condemned under the same condemnation? [41] And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this man hath done no evil. [42] And he said to Jesus: Lord, remember me when thou shalt come into thy kingdom. [43] And Jesus said to him: Amen I say to thee, this day thou shalt be with me in paradise.

The Good Thief wasn't baptized with water at all, but his baptism of desire was sufficient. Do you think God would do less for you? There is a difference between the sacrament and the sacramental. Don't think the map is the territory.

Is that like worshiping Mary

The Catechism says that only God is God and worthy of our worship. Non-Christians often accuse us of worshiping Mary. But it's not true.

and praying to dead people?

Perhaps you don't know what "praying" means. What do you think it means?

 

[Malachi]

It says baptised in the name of the Lord, baptised in Christ, not baptised in the H2O of the Lord, the NAME of the Lord. Baptised in the Gospel.

Never heard of such a spin before. No one is baptised in the Gospel. "The name of the Lord" corresponds to Matthew 28:19. And the word *baptize* (Greek baptizo) primarily means *immerse* in Scripture. Please note carefully that Philip immersed this eunuch in water:

And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. (Acts 8:36-39).

 

[Jim Parker]

We've had a few discussions about baptism by water vs baptism by the Holy Spirit and whether or not water baptism is required or important.

What did Jesus say on that topic?
Mar 16:16 (NKJV) He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
Mat 28:19 (RSV) Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
If Jesus said it was required then it's important.
Peter said it was important too. (Probably because he heard Jesus say so.)
Act 2:37-38 (RSV) Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brethren, what shall we do?"
And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Act 2:41 (RSV) So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.
Act 10:44-48 (RSV - Peter at the house of Cornelius) While Peter was still saying this, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. And the believers from among the circumcised who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared,"Can any one forbid water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?"
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

Iakov the fool

 

[Mike]

A few posts have come and gone pertaining to RCC doctrines. Let's just remember going forward such talk is limited to End Times (and only as it pertains to end times) and One-to-one Debating. Thank you.

 

[Barbarian]

If Jesus said it was required then it's important.

So what did Jesus say to the Good Thief about it?

And he said to Jesus: Lord, remember me when thou shalt come into thy kingdom. And Jesus said to him: Amen I say to thee, this day thou shalt be with me in paradise.

That's what's essential.

We should baptize with water, because we were told to do it. But if it's not possible to do so, one can still be saved.