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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Is baptism required for salvation?
- Thread starter dwb001
- Start date
Jethro Bodine
Member
To BECOME saved? No.
Justification is by faith apart from works.
But, eventually, the failure to obey Christ's command to be water baptized may indicate the absence of the faith that justifies.
Jethro Bodine
Member
He was not water baptized. But he was baptized by the Spirit into the body of Christ.
The thief on the cross should not be used as an excuse to not be water baptized.
Where was the flame like fire on the prisoner?
Did not the Holy Spirit not come until Jesus had left?
Your timing would be off.
Not an excuse, but neither a requirement.
Hi dwb001
He could have been. We just don't know. The Scriptures account several times that the disciples baptized people. John the Baptist spent his adult life baptizing people that came, according to the Scriptures, from all over. So, I think that Scriptures are pretty clear that likely thousands of people were baptized in the days that Jesus walked the earth. Was the thief who was caught up with Jesus on Golgotha one of them? We have no way of knowing.
He obviously had enough of the Holy Spirit to give him understanding as to 'who' it was that was on that cross beside him. Did that come from his baptism? Maybe.
God bless,
Ted
He could have been. We just don't know. The Scriptures account several times that the disciples baptized people. John the Baptist spent his adult life baptizing people that came, according to the Scriptures, from all over. So, I think that Scriptures are pretty clear that likely thousands of people were baptized in the days that Jesus walked the earth. Was the thief who was caught up with Jesus on Golgotha one of them? We have no way of knowing.
He obviously had enough of the Holy Spirit to give him understanding as to 'who' it was that was on that cross beside him. Did that come from his baptism? Maybe.
God bless,
Ted
Jethro Bodine
Member
The giving of the Spirit was a private experience during the old covenant. Kings, priests, and prophets in particular were privy to this experience. And, IMO, so were every other genuinely believing person before the Day of Pentecost. The sending of the Spirit in power became a public, revealed truth with the resurrection of Christ.
But in the OT the Spirit coming on someone was temporary. Not a baptism of the Spirit.
Mungo
Member
Not absolute. It is the normal way that Jesus gave us. "He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (Mk 16:16)
But note - this is Christian baptism, ordained by Christ, not previous baptismws like John's
But God is sovereign and may save someones even though they have not been baptised. But that is his choice not ours.
Hi Jethro Bodine
I agree that the Holy Spirit has always been at work on the earth working to operate God's great plan of salvation among us humans. But yes, we now live in the days where the Holy Spirit has been poured out over all of the earth. His job, before Jesus, was I believe something like you describe. He was given to certain people for the certain performance of their job. I mean, I don't believe a single one of the prophets of God, of which is about half of the old covenant, could have opened their mouths to say the things that they said without the Holy Spirit controlling their emotions and their tongues and guiding them in all that they were speaking.
God bless,
Ted
Consecrated Life
Member
There is no physical ritual conducted by sinful men that can either connect us, or separate us. from the salvation of Christ Jesus if we come to Him.
Rom 8:38
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Hi Mungo
And personally, I find confidence in the need for baptism, in that every example of coming to faith that is described for us in the new covenant, seems to then be followed up by baptism. Baptism has been a really big thing among believers since the day of Jesus' baptism. However, I also agree that God is sovereign and yes, if someone came to faith as they were falling out of an airplane, then they might be saved without baptism. As for the rest of us, it is a command and if a believer chooses not to believe that it's necessary, then they really aren't loving Jesus by obeying his commands...are they?
Jesus told us to go forth teaching the gospel and for those who would believe, to then baptize them in the name of the Father, Son and Spirit (or blood, depending on translation). Then, teaching them to also obey all that he has commanded. So the whole building of the fellowship of the believers is through the teaching of obeying Jesus' commands. If Jesus, and the evidence of the Scriptures, shows that baptism certainly seemed to be a part of the process then. Well I'm an old fashioned kind of guy who believes, that in the things of God, the way it was done in the beginning, meaning the days of Paul and the first apostles, is likely the right way to do it.
All I can say, is we'll see.
God bless,
Ted
So your answer is "no" baptism is not required.There is no physical ritual conducted by sinful men that can either connect us, or separate us. from the salvation of Christ Jesus if we come to Him.
Rom 8:38
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Thanks
Consecrated Life
Member
With faith in Christ having the preeminence, do you believe the people who have come to Him in faith, yet declined to go though a physical ritual will spend eternity in hell ?
Just asking ?
Just saying what I read in the Scriptures.
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Now, you can argue the point as to whether that was ever in the original if you like. But I believe in a God who has preserved His word for us. Thus, I believe that if it wasn't supposed to be in what the whole world views as His testimony to us, then He messed up. And I'm sorry, but I know that God doesn't mess up.
Further, as I have written, we can't make any definitive claim as to whether or not the man beside Jesus on the cross had or hadn't ever been baptized. That information is not given to us. But if the words of Jesus are true, and I believe that they are, the the man was likely baptized at some point during Jesus' or John's ministry.
Futher, pretty much all of the examples we find, I mean the Ethiopian eunich demanded immediate baptism, show that baptism follows proclamation of faith. Now, as I've said previously, God is God and He can do what He wills to do. If someone were asking me if I thought that salvation required baptism and they were asking about themselves or another, I would tell them that there's a strong argument to be made in support of the idea. Then it would be up to them what they wanted to do.
You see, while baptism may not save anyone, it is the first sign to Jesus that you're heart is in this. You really do want to start off with a clean spirit following after him. What believer that understands what it is that he believes, wouldn't want to willingly and joyfully give their Savior that sign?
God bless,
Ted
Mungo
Member
Jesus said "He who believes and is baptized will be saved" but then he followed that with "but he who does not believe will be condemned." That leave open the question - what happens to those who believe but do not get baptised?
I think it depends on why they decline baptism. Some are badly taught and don't appreciate that it is in baptism that Jesus saves us (normally). But only God see that heart and knows if they are at fault in not accepting baptism; whether they are just misled or being disobedient (which is disbelief).
So by your text in red... baptism is not required to not be condemned.
Jethro Bodine
Member
Is this temporary?
Exodus 35:30-32
Notice he is filled, not just covered with the Holy Spirit.
I’m suggesting to you that the filling of the Spirit is not what was new on the Day of Pentecost. The revelation and the availability of the indwelling Spirit is what was new on the Day of Pentecost.
Usually temporary... yes.
Jethro Bodine
Member
It doesn’t say, but what makes you think it’s temporary?